Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Ghim)
    Well, for example, the scientific position clearly conflicts with a literal interpretation of the Adam and Eve story in the Abraham religions.
    Please explain further. How exactly is that the case.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by MostCompetitive)
    So, basically, the theory of evolution is strong, but because there isn't any evidence against it today doesn't mean that there won't be any in the future. This means that no religion can be called false for contradicting the theory. It may be accepted today by the scientific community and be able to fully account for observations in various fields, but nobody knows if any opposing evidence to the theory will be found in the future. If opposing evidence is found, then something else has to explain those observations.
    The same could be said for the theory of gravity, etc.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    I hope its not a load of crap. Kind of makes the religious studies part of my degree worthless :/
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by llpokermuffinll)
    Please explain further. How exactly is that the case.
    Have you not heard of evolution?
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Ghim)
    Have you not heard of evolution?
    Yes, I have, but Islam doesn't disagree with evolution. Islam doesn't even support the theory that Adam and Eve were the first humans. Since Science has clearly proven things like evolution, only an idiot would disagree with that. And I doubt it that there are 3 billion or so idiots out there.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    God is Love. Can you disprove love?
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by llpokermuffinll)
    Yes, I have, but Islam doesn't disagree with evolution. Islam doesn't even support the theory that Adam and Eve were the first humans.

    Since Science has clearly proven things like evolution, only an idiot would disagree with that. And I doubt it that there are 3 billion or so idiots out there.
    Actuallly, the vast majority of Muslims believe that Adam and Eve were literally the first humans on earth. I haven't come across many who don't.

    Also, you should be a catious when a Muslim says he or she accepts - these people tend to be quite devious, so they would say they accept evolution, when in fact they only accept certain aspects of the theory of evolution - aspects which don't conflict with their understanding of Islam. These people clearly don't believe evolution - after all, you can't just pick and choose which parts of evolution you accept on the basis that some are compatible with your religion and others are not, just as you can't call really call yourself a Muslim and remove certain parts of the Quran.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Ghim)
    Actuallly, the vast majority of Muslims believe that Adam and Eve were literally the first humans on earth. I haven't come across many who don't.

    Also, you should be a catious when a Muslim says he or she accepts - these people tend to be quite devious, so they would say they accept evolution, when in fact they only accept certain aspects of the theory of evolution - aspects which don't conflict with their understanding of Islam. These people clearly don't believe evolution - after all, you can't just pick and choose which parts of evolution you accept on the basis that some are compatible with your religion and others are not, just as you can't call really call yourself a Muslim and remove certain parts of the Quran.
    True, but I have had this conversation for hundreds of times and keep saying the same thing that different Muslim sects have different interpretations of the Qur'an. Adam is another word for 'human' as well as Adam (the prophet). So, some will take it literally, others won't.

    I am Muslim myself and don't disagree with evolution or Big Bang or anything else. It's just that I believe that Science and Religion can exist together.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by giga_grif)
    This argument is an insult to anyone with an IQ above 40.
    Darn, it's an insult to dogs, dolphins, cats etc too?
    Now i'm angry...
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Beleg Cuthalion)
    God is Love. Can you disprove love?
    pahahahahahahahahahahaha

    I hope you're joking
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by llpokermuffinll)
    True, but I have had this conversation for hundreds of times and keep saying the same thing that different Muslim sects have different interpretations of the Qur'an. Adam is another word for 'human' as well as Adam (the prophet). So, some will take it literally, others won't.

    I am Muslim myself and don't disagree with evolution or Big Bang or anything else. It's just that I believe that Science and Religion can exist together.
    What percentage of Muslims don't take it literally?
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Ghim)
    What percentage of Muslims don't take it literally?
    Not a big one, but those who don't take it literally, but more metaphorically, are more peaceful people than those who are taking it literally.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Scientifically...Yes it is...
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Beleg Cuthalion)
    God is Love. Can you disprove love?

    to use the much-quoted example, no, but neither can you disprove the idea of a multicoloured teapot orbiting the earth - undetectable, mysterious, downright unlikely, but still possibly THERE.

    Also love is more of a cultural concept and varies between people, so it's not really a 'provable' thing as there is no consistent definition.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    If you actually bother looking up then you'll learn that Genesis 1 is considered by the Jewish people as a hymn-contextualised as a poem,therefore who said it is literal? Evolution disagree with Genesis 2 and 3, which takes that death came after Afam and Eve were created therefore theistic evolution does not work. On the contrary-supporting your views with Richard Dawkings is facetious-this developing Agressive Atheism is becoming ridiculous... If science is hypothesis proven by evidence, then what about the archeological findings of the falls of Jericho? Joshua (the book in the scriptures) is the hypothesis-therefore it has been proven by the archeology?? Or are we going to be subjective,honestly? Please do not dislike my post,just because you disagree--respect.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by llpokermuffinll)
    Not a big one
    I know Ahmadiyya Muslims accept evolution. I am not sure how many other groups also accept it, though.

    (Original post by llpokermuffinll)
    but those who don't take it literally, but more metaphorically, are more peaceful people than those who are taking it literally.
    That's probably true, because they are clearly more intelligent since they are not blindly denying what scientists pretty much regard to be a scientific fact.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Ghim)
    I know Ahmadiyya Muslims accept evolution. I am not sure how many other groups also accept it, though.



    That's probably true, because they are clearly more intelligent since they are not blindly denying what scientists pretty much regard to be a scientific fact.
    Are you Muslim yourself?
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by spasmos)
    I am also a strong atheist, but your post is almost hypocritical. What your post read to me was as a summary of the God Delusion by Dawkins. Therefore, your views, whilst not based on this book, use this book as an evidence and follow closely the criticism that Dawkins presents - is this not reminiescent of a religious activity to you? Religion is not simply the belief in God, but the following of a Ethos and morals. To literal meanings in religion are all but eradicated in modern society - for a closer example look towards Buddhism.

    Richard Dawkins is a poor excuse for a social scientist, and whilst some of his book (such as the selfish gene) are informative and accessible, The God Delusion is a prejudice and stagnant example of anti-monotheism.

    To criticise religion, you need to be prepared to understand it, and be specific - every religion is different and cannot be tarred with the same brush. The best critic for religion is the person who knows it inside out - the theologist.

    Lastly, you should allow people to have faith, if it helps them to live a better, more fulfilled life, then who are we to criticise. Speak to any modern person who follows a religion, and you will probably be surprised by their reasons and method of following. Media reports only on the extremes of religion, not the vast majority who are sensible, objective citizens. How much better are you then those who preach about their religion, if you preach about atheism?
    This is a well written and well argued set of points and for that you have my respect. However I think you are wrong to say that I am hypocritical for following the "God Delusion" too closely, I do not treat his book as a christian would follow the bible, I was an atheist long before I read the God Delusion, I just read it for further reference. Indeed Religion is no longer about literally following this "one book" however I feel this does not take away from the fact that people basing their lives upon a concept which has no solid evidence to back it up. We have advanced so much scientifically since the days in which religion was the only explanation for the creation of the universe, and I can't help but feel it is such a shame to disregard such brilliant knowledge. Religion certainly can lead people to leave good lives, but I just feel that people can live good lives without having to be religious, and that a religious person is basing their life upon a falsehood. I do not follow Dawkins blindly, but I do highly respect him for being willing to stand up against religion- which is ultimately a tabboo subject in many areas of the world. However I think the point about preaching atheism you make is a good one. Dawkins himself admits that he could be seen to be a preacher of atheism. However I can't help but think that he is only preaching logic and reason, and in that regard I don't see why it is as bad as preaching a religion- which is something which has no evidence to back it up.

    Many thanks for you're excellent reply, and I don't want people to think that I have no respect for people who follow a religion, this is not the case, I have many devout friends, I just find it frustrating that in modern day society in which we know so much about science, people are still leading their lives based upon rules and beliefs created thousands of years ago when humans were in scientific terms ignorant.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by llpokermuffinll)
    Are you Muslim yourself?
    I was born to Muslim parents, although they were quite secular (though conservative). I left Islam when I was around 16. I am an atheist now. Have been for the past five years.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Beleg Cuthalion)
    God is Love. Can you disprove love?
    Looking at scripture, it would appear that God is hate.
 
 
 
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    What newspaper do you read/prefer?
    Useful resources
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.