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Why are people so ignorant about suicide and depression? Watch

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    [QUOTE=Lewroll;28911430]Let me ask a question to all you people who im debating with(a question you all seem to be avoiding)
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      (Original post by Lewroll)
      And here we have it! The all important answer! I was wonderign when this would come.
      Now tell me, how is your answer to my question any different from what ive been arguing. Ive been saying we shouldnt let people kill themselves- you said we shoudnt let people kill themselves. i said we should treat and help them- you said we should treat and help them.
      :sigh:

      Please read my post again, and again and another time until you understand what I am trying to tell you.

      1) These people need help. Duh.
      2) We should try to help them

      These things we all agree with you on....

      However, we think are ignorant because you have demonstrated your lack of knowledge on mental illness. It is obvious you are unable to relate with or empathise with sufferers and we were trying (and failing) to make you open your eyes and see how difficult it is to treat and how many people don't understand the severity of mental illness as opposed to ones we can see, touch, feel or relate too. It is a constant uphill battle and unfortunately some don't make it along the way. However, this is only one reason for suicide... That's all I'm trying to say really. Night
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      (Original post by Lewroll)
      Still havent answered the question mate. Im beginning to think you are trolling because youve managed to avoid my question several times.
      I did actually. I said that nobody should have to feel suicidal and that they should all get treatment to the best ability of the pro involved. That means "NO. Suicide=bad".
      Hospitalisation is a valid part of treatment. So is rehabilitation (i.e. treat them so that they don't need hospital anymore.)
      Both of us agree that suicide is horrible. Both of us agree that people should not commit suicide, and that treatment is by far the better option.
      I did not contest either of these facts.
      The bit that I have a problem with, is you calling people who successfully commit suicide "weak".
      We also probably differ in opinion in that I don't hate those people who do commit suicide. I pity them. I wish I could have helped. And it makes me want to improve the system that clearly didn't reach them.
      Good night
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      (Original post by Lewroll)
      Yeah I know. Does that mean the people should just kill themselves? In cases of depression people can be treated and sometimes cured. For other things treatment is the answer not suicide. If someone kills themselves not only have they failed at life, but it seems like society has failed for not providing the correct help.
      I support the fact that euthanasia is right in some circumstances. I would be hypocritical therefore if I did not also acknowledge that suicide is right in some circumstances. (note - I am acknowledging that people have freedom over their own life and bodies. I am not suggesting that people should go out and commit suicide. Quite the opposite. As suicide is final, you have to be sure it is the right decision. To be sure of that properly, knowing that you aren't being irrational, you must have stayed alive so long that the root cause is usually fixed long before then. I do not support suicides decided on a whim. Please don't neg me because you don't understand my views on suicide - I'm just liberal and support freedom.)

      However, in the majority of cases, the root problem can be sorted eventually. This means that the person suffers until then. Until the root problem is sorted, they will undergo depression, which doesn't always have an easy fix. You say you won't get suicidal because you sort things out? Sorting things out can take time.

      'Failed at life'.. well, that rather depends on your subjective view of what a successful life is.
      The second is often true though.. In the majority of cases, society can and should help, and don't, due to waiting lists/prejudice/etc.
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      (Original post by Sabertooth)
      I avoided it because it wasn't relevant to your original argument about how weak these people apparently are.


      However, from a personal point of view yes I'd say if they don't respond to treatment, it's unlikely that things will ever get any better and they hate their life enough to kill themselves, hell go right ahead. I believe people own their lives, they should have the freedom to end it if they wish and if they're gaining zero pleasure only pain from life will little chance of recovery then it's no different, imo, to euthanasia for physical problems. Mental pain doesn't hurt any less than physical, not that you'd know clearly.
      Great we have an answer people. 'Let them kill themselves'. If i let someone kill themselves then i will feel ive failed. I like to help people, do you?

      Now I've said that you'll ignore any points arguing against your original statement and go off on some irrelevant tangent. I thought I set out quite well what my disagreements with you were, but oh well, off you go down that route. :rolleyes: Funny you talk about avoiding the question but you avoided every single ****ing point I made.
      The only reason i avoided your points is because you avoided my initial question. I still maintain that people that try to kill themselves need help and are taking the easy way out. Its our job to help them any way we can. And dont say its not the easy way. It is. It certainly isnt the hard way, which would be fighting through it and trying to survive- a natural human instinct.

      I sincerely hope it affects you one day.
      Well thats not a very nice thing to say is it. Why would you wish this horrible thing on anyone. Thats a sick thing to say mate. If thats how your brain works then you need help. Wishing mental illnessess on people, well ive seen it all now!
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      Sadly many people are naive and just don't realise Depression is an illness, think also some people just don't understand.
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      (Original post by Captain92)
      I did actually. I said that nobody should have to feel suicidal and that they should all get treatment to the best ability of the pro involved. That means "NO. Suicide=bad".
      Hospitalisation is a valid part of treatment. So is rehabilitation (i.e. treat them so that they don't need hospital anymore.)
      Both of us agree that suicide is horrible. Both of us agree that people should not commit suicide, and that treatment is by far the better option.
      I did not contest either of these facts.
      The bit that I have a problem with, is you calling people who successfully commit suicide "weak".
      We also probably differ in opinion in that I don't hate those people who do commit suicide. I pity them. I wish I could have helped. And it makes me want to improve the system that clearly didn't reach them.
      Good night
      Now how is this any different to what ive been arguing. Jesus christ you people like to argue dont you. We have made exactly the same points (its taken you long enough to say it) yet you continued to argue with me- on those very points you just agreed with.
      Yes they are weak, they definitely arent strong are they. Logic people! if they were strong, they wouldnt commit suicide. So by definition they are weak. Simple logic mate.
      I dont hate people that commit suicide, quite the contrary, i think they should have been helped.
      You lot like to start arguments, when in actual fact, you have no idea what you are arguing against.
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      (Original post by lightburns)
      I support the fact that euthanasia is right in some circumstances. I would be hypocritical therefore if I did not also acknowledge that suicide is right in some circumstances. (note - I am acknowledging that people have freedom over their own life and bodies. I am not suggesting that people should go out and commit suicide. Quite the opposite. As suicide is final, you have to be sure it is the right decision. To be sure of that properly, knowing that you aren't being irrational, you must have stayed alive so long that the root cause is usually fixed long before then. I do not support suicides decided on a whim. Please don't neg me because you don't understand my views on suicide - I'm just liberal and support freedom.)

      However, in the majority of cases, the root problem can be sorted eventually. This means that the person suffers until then. Until the root problem is sorted, they will undergo depression, which doesn't always have an easy fix. You say you won't get suicidal because you sort things out? Sorting things out can take time.

      'Failed at life'.. well, that rather depends on your subjective view of what a successful life is.
      The second is often true though.. In the majority of cases, society can and should help, and don't, due to waiting lists/prejudice/etc.
      Lol dont worry im not going to neg you. Ive been saying all along these people should be treated. Thats no different to what you said. I understand it will take time, but if a successful treatment can eventually be given, than it was worth the wait wasnt it? Although i suppose the same could be argued for people who are euthanised.
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      (Original post by Onyx.)
      :sigh:

      Please read my post again, and again and another time until you understand what I am trying to tell you.

      1) These people need help. Duh.
      2) We should try to help them

      These things we all agree with you on....

      However, we think are ignorant because you have demonstrated your lack of knowledge on mental illness. It is obvious you are unable to relate with or empathise with sufferers and we were trying (and failing) to make you open your eyes and see how difficult it is to treat and how many people don't understand the severity of mental illness as opposed to ones we can see, touch, feel or relate too. It is a constant uphill battle and unfortunately some don't make it along the way. However, this is only one reason for suicide... That's all I'm trying to say really. Night
      And i think you are ignorant because you are arguing with someone you agree with. Despite my apparent lack of knowledge on mental illnesses, we both agree that we should try to treat these people. Does it matter if i dont completely empathise with these people. Treat them, dont let them kill themselves. You lot generally seem either ignorant or stupid, arguing with someone you agree with!
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      Interested in what Lewroll thinks about his argument now I
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      (Original post by Little_My)
      Interested in what Lewroll thinks about his argument now I
      Whatare you talking about? My argument has stayed the same this entire conversation. Treat these people, dont let them kill themselves. Have you even read this thread?
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      (Original post by Lewroll)
      Whatare you talking about? My argument has stayed the same this entire conversation. Treat these people, dont let them kill themselves. Have you even read this thread?
      I'm sorry, do you really think that people who kill themselves deserve no sympathy? This confuses me in relation to previous posts.

      No need to get angsty lol
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      I wish all people could leave good and happy lives every minute, I really really really do wish that would happen. BUT people just need to realise, there will always be people who lead unhappy lives. People are always going to get abused, and be brought up in a bad household, which could lead to these thoughts. People are always going to get bullied throughout their childhood thus growing up with suicidal thoughts. It's not because you're weak.... Depression just eats you inside out, imagine having no friends, nobody to talk to about your problems but a louzy therapist (I've been in that position), it's that feeling of isolation that leads to these thoughts. Reading from the comments in this thread, some people just do not understand and should keep their mouths shut up. Kudos to those trying to make a positive contribution regardless though.
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      (Original post by Little_My)
      I say no. But I do have a problem with what you say.

      On the one hand, you say people should be stopped killing themselves and be offered help.

      On the other hand, you say people who are offered 'help' (and this is assuming that help is adequate) and then kill themselves should be offered no sympathy, and are better of dead to society. and therefore you are ok with them killing themselves.

      Kind of a strange way of thinking to me They both counter each other.
      Oh i just saaw this post, otherwise i would have responded sooner.

      If i stuck my finger in a fan several times, and each time you told me to stop but i wouldnt listen, eventually i will cut myself. Help has been offered, i ignored that help, did i not deserve what i got. (yes i know this isnt the best analogy but the point remains)
      Someone who doesnt want, or take help deserves what they get in my opinion- obviously it is different if they willing take the help and it doesnt work, so they are still mental and kill themselves. if the treatment doesnt work then new treatment will need to be made, until that time (depending on how serious their problem is) they should be kept somewhere safe.
      It is a wise man which takes the help of others: Lewroll Proverb
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      its mostly attention seeking. if you really had problems your first thought wouldn't exactly be ' i know ill log onto the student room and post about how i want to kill myself'. or upload some pathetic sad story, most of which aren't even that serious.

      They just like the attention they get. like ' you don't need to do that i bet your an amazing person' and all that rubbish!
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      (Original post by theths)
      not really, i seem to remember most of those comments were made by one troll

      i think it really is just a case of internet ********s, people on TSR are also very quick to judge virgins/****s/the religious/the homosexuals

      same applies in real life for a lot of that, too
      woow can't believe you are all of those
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      (Original post by trimmy)
      its mostly attention seeking. if you really had problems your first thought wouldn't exactly be ' i know ill log onto the student room and post about how i want to kill myself'. or upload some pathetic sad story, most of which aren't even that serious.

      They just like the attention they get. like ' you don't need to do that i bet your an amazing person' and all that rubbish!
      You know you can have an illness and be attention seeking. It doesn't make it any less valid.

      I would ENCOURAGE people to post how they feel, not dismiss it. It means people can actually help them and they can take advice.

      I think people should take cries for help seriously, and not instantly dismiss how a person feels.
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      (Original post by Lewroll)
      Great we have an answer people. 'Let them kill themselves'. If i let someone kill themselves then i will feel ive failed. I like to help people, do you?

      The only reason i avoided your points is because you avoided my initial question. I still maintain that people that try to kill themselves need help and are taking the easy way out. Its our job to help them any way we can. And dont say its not the easy way. It is. It certainly isnt the hard way, which would be fighting through it and trying to survive- a natural human instinct.
      Complaining about ignoring your argument when you AGAIN ignore mine. :rolleyes:

      http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show...&postcount=151

      That is my initial post to you, you'll notice I wasn't responding to any question over whether people could kill themselves, I was responding to your ridiculously ignorant posts about how people are weak and apparently pulling themselves together will help. I also responded to your assertions about how taking the medication isn't a cure-all (which you haven't replied to me about yet, nor do I think you will I should add :rolleyes: ).

      Don't make **** up, I didn't "avoid" your "initial question", I did nothing of the sort because you hadn't asked that in the post I replied to - that is right there for everyone to see. You are the one avoiding things, not me. I've written 3 long posts to you explaining firstly why you're wrong and secondly my position, what did I get back, some crap about ignoring you.

      I like to help people, yes very much, which you would have noticed had you bothered to read my 3rd reply to you, you know the one where I say how it's only ok for people to kill themselves if they've tried to get help and the help doesn't help them. Unlike you, I know what I'm talking about, I know you don't just take a pill and every mental problem is magically solved.

      (Original post by Lewroll)
      Well thats not a very nice thing to say is it. Why would you wish this horrible thing on anyone. Thats a sick thing to say mate. If thats how your brain works then you need help. Wishing mental illnessess on people, well ive seen it all now!
      (Original post by Lewroll)
      Suicide- the easy way out. Suicide is for cowards and those who kill themselves didnt deserve life (not talking about euthanasia/assisted suicide)
      Isn't a very nice thing to say. :dontknow:

      I know people like you anyway, you'll argue all day how euthanasia is fine and dandy for physical things but you don't "allow" (lol) it for mental because mental doesn't hurt apparently, it doesn't wreck lives, it doesn't make waking up in the morning a feeling of regret and hate. Oh wait actually it does, only you've never experienced it and you're too ignorant and misinformed to bother to ever find out. If you were to experience it first hand, hell yeah you'd change your tune pretty fast. I don't think karma is a bad thing, no.
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      (Original post by .Ali.)
      So I was reading this thread http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show...9#post28902489

      and I'm completely shocked and appalled at some of the responses, for example:

      "Suicide is for the weakminded"
      "Survival of the fittest, he deserved to die"
      "I have no sympathy with people who do this selfish act" etc.

      How can people be so heartless and ignorant? Also, surely people should be more angry at the bullies? That poor boy died because of some cold hearted, foul people who were complete and utter cowards.

      Depression is a chemical imbalance for Gods sake, I don't know why people see it any differently from any other illness. Having it does NOT make you weak in any way, no more than having any other illness does. Why the ignorance and the judgement?

      The problem here is the bullies, surely more should be done to combat bullying and abuse?

      Urgh this makes me ridiculously angry. People who've never had depression or felt suicidal have no right to judge.
      Im not particularly ignorant.... but I am almost 100% anti suicide (not sure bout special cases such as illnesses and disabilities)....

      But you could say that I don't 'believe' in depression... but that is only because I have not experienced it and have very little knowledge of it... oh and also because I am generally happy and don't see how being sad all the time helps anyone....
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      (Original post by meatzaper)
      woow can't believe you are all of those
      i'm a woman. we multitask.
     
     
     
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