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The Daily Telegraph: Muslim population has grown from 1.65m to 2.87m in a decade Watch

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    (Original post by Phantom_X)
    Except homosexuality was actually only legalised in the 60's, and in the 19th century you would have been executed for being a homosexual- ironically dictated by christian law. Its not too far off and to claim a moral high ground over it is proposterous.

    secondly, it goes without saying that Islam forbids homosexuality- as does the christian, sikh and jewish faith. Does this mean all such religions are 'anti-western' ? Why are we not protesting against these faiths in the same way we protest against Islam ?

    Thirdly, while many muslims (and indeed most religious people) may be against homosexuality, it does not mean they want to actively destroy it; beyond a few crazy mullahs, there has been no 'united calling against the gays' in any monotheistic religion. Hence, whilst religious doctrine presents the fundamental idea that homosexuality is a sin, at the same time there is not a simultaneous calling that all should be executed, as seems to be suggested in your tone.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christi..._homosexuality

    First what others do is not a justification for bad behaviour, second it's not even as clear as you state.
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    (Original post by LysFromParis)
    OH Ironic. "We are the TRUE religion, we will rule the world". Yeah that's a so peaceful statement to make...

    Second if a veracity of a religion is judged based on the number of its follower, well Christianity is the "true" religion. There is around 2 billions Christians while Muslim are 1.3 billions (Catholics alone are 1.2 billions)... Your pride in number is kind of childish and clearly misplaced...

    The problem of Muslim people is aggressive people like you who feels the need to jump at everyone throat when the word "Islam" come into a conversation.
    I can understand your point of view, but the thing is that there are so many Muslims out there, which are not spreading the true Islam. They are doing all those things, which people on TSR are always arguing about (e.g. beating women, stoning rape victims, killing apostates, war, ...). I only take part in those conversations to tell these Muslims and the non-Muslims that Islam is not like that.

    And don't take that serious what I was saying about the numbers. It was more of a 'troll' or joke than serious. But if someone does take the truth of religion in terms of numbers, then you need to also take into account that Christianity started ~600 years before Islam, so you can't really judge them by the number.

    That first comment was meant to be a joke. I'm not aggressive at all. Look at my previous comments (well, before 3 days ago) and you will see that I have always been peaceful on TSR until 2 days ago.

    And obviously every religious person will believe they are the true religion. I know it's wrong to state it this way.
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    Im not concerned about the number of one particular race growing- more like the number of those who's views on the world are a bit ****ing loopy, whether they are intentioned or not. They are part of a system designed to increase the number of believers at all costs, regardless of wether their children are going to have a decent quality of life. People need to drop some of their ridiculous values, otherwise it makes life more ****ing trouble for the rest of us.
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    (Original post by LysFromParis)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christi..._homosexuality

    First what others do is not a justification for bad behaviour, second it's not even as clear as you state.
    I am aware that many churches accept gay Christians- in fact I fully support it. However as stated previously, this is a relatively new phenomenon and in most orthodox churches for example, being a homosexual is a sin, as it is in most of the abrahamic religion. Now, Christianity may have been extremely liberalized, which is fine, however to expect that other religions follow suit is rather pedantic. Hence, when the OP says 'Muslims do not accept homosexuality' it is true, whether one likes it or not- it states explicitly in the Qur'an that homosexuality is a sin. Ofc this does not mean it does not happen in the middle east. In fact it probably happens over there more often than what we are led to believe.
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    (Original post by LysFromParis)
    OH Ironic. "We are the TRUE religion, we will rule the world". Yeah that's a so peaceful statement to make...

    Second if a veracity of a religion is judged based on the number of its follower, well Christianity is the "true" religion. There is around 2 billions Christians while Muslim are 1.3 billions (Catholics alone are 1.2 billions)... Your pride in number is kind of childish and clearly misplaced...

    The problem of Muslim people is aggressive people like you who feels the need to jump at everyone throat when the word "Islam" come into a conversation.
    I can understand where you are coming from but it is to be naturally expected after topics based on Islam have a greater tendency in attracting hypercriticism. You would find this with those that defend Israel, those that defend the American foreign policy, those that defend that Hiroshima and Nagasaki atomic bomb stating it duly saved more civillians than WW2 would cost. Alas, in general, sometimes people tend to be more outspoken in their responses, but in hindsight, a more subdued response is infinitely more effective, ergo I do not disagree.
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    (Original post by Phantom_X)
    I am aware that many churches accept gay Christians- in fact I fully support it. However as stated previously, this is a relatively new phenomenon and in most orthodox churches for example, being a homosexual is a sin, as it is in most of the abrahamic religion. Now, Christianity may have been extremely liberalized, which is fine, however to expect that other religions follow suit is rather pedantic. Hence, when the OP says 'Muslims do not accept homosexuality' it is true, whether one likes it or not- it states explicitly in the Qur'an that homosexuality is a sin. Ofc this does not mean it does not happen in the middle east. In fact it probably happens over there more often than what we are led to believe.
    I do not know about all orthodox churches, but it's debated by some liberal Catholic movement. Catholicism and I think other Orthodox churches are liberalizing slowly, but they have to face reactionary movement that smaller Protestant or Reformed churches may not face. I must admit that I'm chocked by the point of view some Christians have on this forum and I think liberal Muslim have the same kind of feeling.

    Liberalization of a religious movement is also influenced by the country where people are leaving. If you compare support of gay right or contraception by French Catholic is way higher than the support by US Catholics. That makes me confident in the fact that Muslim living in Europe will change little by little their practice.
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    (Original post by Kolya)
    Perhaps that problem can be addressed though, and in doing so we might be able to achieve other goals. If we are able to bring up a generation of SE Asians and Arabs who have experience of prosperity, and who tend towards more liberal social views (be it through liberal Islam or atheism) then that can be an encouragement for people of the same ethnicity to adopt similar views. By inviting people from other countries in, and helping them prosper in an open society with liberal social and economic policies, we can demonstrate that liberal democracy is for everyone. If we shut them out, then it helps reinforce ideas that liberal democracy is only for white Western Europe. In the long run, that makes us less secure than we are now: if we deal with minor internal worries now then we can help prevent potentially serious external worries caused by unstable nations in the future.
    Well that's exactly what I think should happen (more or less inevitably anyway). I'm not opposed to immigration at all, in fact I'm very pro-immigration, so I agree with everything you just said.
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    It's interesting to note that the number of Muslim people in Britain has now surpassed the number of Welsh people.

    But as most of this thread has quite rightly stated, so what if the Muslim population is growing? It's not like we are nearing a full scale Islamic revolution. A lot of the younger, second generation Muslims are not even that religious. We're all humans, so as long as some of the fundamentalist aspects of Islam don't find their way into British society, the more the merrier.
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    (Original post by Teveth)
    It's interesting to note that the number of Muslim people in Britain has now surpassed the number of Welsh people.

    But as most of this thread has quite rightly stated, so what if the Muslim population is growing? It's not like we are nearing a full scale Islamic revolution. A lot of the younger, second generation Muslims are not even that religious. We're all humans, so as long as some of the fundamentalist aspects of Islam don't find their way into British society, the more the merrier.
    Please also bear in mind that Islam is a religion and not a race or nationality, unlike welsh. In this case, would you argue that there are more pakistanis than welsh ? or Somalis and welsh ? What about North Africans and welsh ?

    In fact, what about welsh muslims ?

    To collectively assume all muslims are homogenous is rather poor analysis.
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    funny how the liberals defend the muslims, when its islam that is against liberalism

    your all welcoming now, give it a few decades, when they make up half the population, and when the country is on the brink of civil war

    yes, a lot of you will neg me for this, but how can you deny this is going to happen

    the majority of you are a disgrace to your ancestors (with honourable exceptions)
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    OmDz, PpL r HaViN sEx AnD MuLtEePlAyIn.

    seriously though who cares
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    and? Im happy that this country is embracing other cultures. Muslims aren't aliens, I actually think that they are generally more respectful to other people that a lot of other cultures.
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    (Original post by Holte Ender)
    funny how the liberals defend the muslims, when its islam that is against liberalism

    your all welcoming now, give it a few decades, when they make up half the population, and when the country is on the brink of civil war

    yes, a lot of you will neg me for this, but how can you deny this is going to happen

    the majority of you are a disgrace to your ancestors (with honourable exceptions)
    'Liberals' are more likely to be defending freedom of religion and scrapegoating than Islam itself.
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    (Original post by Holte Ender)
    funny how the liberals defend the muslims, when its islam that is against liberalism
    As has already been said, liberals defend freedom of religion.

    your all welcoming now, give it a few decades, when they make up half the population, and when the country is on the brink of civil war
    Yeah except that's not true is it. The country in Western Europe with the highest Muslim population (as a percentage) is Austria, and (according to demographic predictions) by 2030 the Muslim population will number 14% of the population at which point it will level out. Hardly half the population is it. The UK is ranked 9th in Europe in terms of Muslims as a percentage of the population, so in the UK it probably won't go anywhere near 14%, so don't get your knickers in a twist.

    yes, a lot of you will neg me for this, but how can you deny this is going to happen
    I dunno ... facts, evidence perhaps? But then again, who needs facts and evidence when you've got OUTRAGE :fuhrer:.
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    is that millions or metres
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    More Muslims should be a good thing because they don't drink, they aren't violent, they are obliged to give a percentage of their disposable income to charity and they're pretty much the nice people that we used to be a few generations ago when people actually went to church the only downsides as I see them are

    1) Ghettoisation - I live near Luton and the dense concentration of immigrants isn't healthy - it attracts white extremists and doesn't encourage integration or tolerance, only fear in the non-immigrant population, unfortunately.
    2) More Muslims = more BNP-type ********s
    3) As someone else said, maybe first generation immigrants don't have very liberal values, or don't have great English
 
 
 
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