Turn on thread page Beta

BNP. good or bad ? watch

  • View Poll Results: what do you think of the BNP?
    good - positive role models for everyone
    14
    8.00%
    ok, but could be better
    18
    10.29%
    bad - wannabee nazis with ****** for leader
    143
    81.71%

    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Howard)
    Yes. Booze doing the thinking. Absolutely crap posts on my part. Apologies all round.
    I almost suggested booze, but didn't want to portray you as a drunkard, if you hadn't been.

    No problem, you usually hit top form, we all have off days, mine generally occur on days ending in "y"
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Beekeeper)
    Hmm, we live among plenty of people from ethnic minority groups. Some of my best friends are Chinese and (shock horror) they are upper middle class too. They are perfectly normal and respectable people.

    Racism is at it's very worst in the most working class areas, working class people are always looking for somebody else to blame for their own misfortunes. Oh how many times i've heard the 'their stealing our jobs' line!
    One minute the Governments to blame, then it's the Government AND the 'immigrants', then it's the rich. Whoever next?

    I think it's about time a lot of people stopped feeling sorry for themselves and got themselves an education that not only enables them to think with a more open mind politically, but also which will equip them with the skills they actually require in the workplace so that they can do something with their lives other than moan about everyone else's fortunes.
    I don't quite know if that rant was arguing against my post or in general but I'll reply anyway.

    The rich aren't resposible for racism obviously, but I don't think taking a patronising attitude to the working class is very productive...actually I can't be bothered, interesting that you would argue that people need to get educated and get an open mind, two qualities that this post severly lacks. Irony is great.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by paddylad)
    Entertaining though
    I don't mind being the object of riducule on this occasion. It is well deserved.
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Laika)
    I don't quite know if that rant was arguing against my post or in general but I'll reply anyway.

    The rich aren't resposible for racism obviously, but I don't think taking a patronising attitude to the working class is very productive...actually I can't be bothered, interesting that you would argue that people need to get educated and get an open mind, two qualities that this post severly lacks. Irony is great.
    Ironic really, coming from someone who has just claimed that the middle classes would give the BNP 'a lot more support if they lived with ethnic minorities in their day to day life'.
    I've probably got more friends from ethnic minorities than the vast majority of working class people do, so I think your statement is extremely ignorant and misguided.

    What I was saying in my post above, therefore, is that 'living with' ethnic minorities is not the problem, it is the blame culture that is the problem, which is found predominantly among the working classes for obvious reasons, and which inevitably will lead to problems like racism.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Beekeeper)
    BNP. good or bad ?

    They're a load of uncultured skin-headed chimps. I'd be suprised if half of them know what a political Party is.

    Besides lets face it, they are failing miserably at the one primary goal of a political party, and that is to gain power and win the popular vote. They have never done it and they will never even get close to it, thankfully.

    I'd place BNP type people on a par with muslim extremists, the only difference between them is that they use broken glass bottles instead of shoe bombs.
    That's a remarkably prejudiced view, although not at all surprising. It's all part and parcel of the hypocrisy of the political Left. Apparently, prejudice is a moral sin with regard to ethnic "minorities", but perfectly acceptable when it is directed at people who reject modern politically correct dogma. Perhaps you should learn a little bit more about the BNP before running your mouth.

    The BNP are not failing. Your analysis could not be more wrong. It perhaps suggests how little you actually know about the BNP. They are succeeding. May 4th will make this abundantly clear.

    Comparing the BNP to Islamic "extremists" is just absurd. If someone in your family is ever blown to bits, it will be your cuddly, fluffy and wonderfully enriching Muslims who are responsible - not the good men and women of the BNP.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Beekeeper)
    I've probably got more friends from ethnic minorities than the vast majority of working class people do.
    Actually I believe, IIRC that is actually the norm.

    Working class people tend to be more segregated, it's "black ghettos", "asian ghettos", and "white ghettos" etc., with people being more tribalised, in an effort to survive the day to day, where as in middle class surroundings the interaction is more common.

    I can't remember the exact details but it runs something along the lines of in a working class enviroment you are more likely to know your neighbour, but less likely to know someone from ten streets away, but in a middle class enviroment the opposite is true, you are less likely to associate with a neighbour, and more likely to know someone from a further distance.

    Considering the way races tend to gravitate this makes working class people more segregated.

    (sorry if that is a bit vague, I don't recall the details to clearly, but it was the general gist of things).
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Beekeeper)
    Ironic really, coming from someone who has just claimed that the middle classes would give the BNP 'a lot more support if they lived with ethnic minorities in their day to day life'.
    I've probably got more friends from ethnic minorities than the vast majority of working class people do, so I think your statement is extremely ignorant and misguided.

    What I was saying in my post above, therefore, is that 'living with' ethnic minorities is not the problem, it is the blame culture that is the problem, which is found predominantly among the working classes for obvious reasons, and which inevitably will lead to problems like racism.
    Why do you think working class people are in the position to be more racist? Is there a magic working class gene that pre-programs them to be racist? Or could it be to do with social postion? I was merely rebutting that rather elitish remark, there's no denying that the BNP find most of their support amongst the working classes. I'd just rather not generalise an entire group of people into being racist just because they're ignorant whereas the middle classes all live harmoniously amongst all the ethnic minorities and all is well.

    The blame may be misguided but it's not irrelevant or exclusive to the working class.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by MB__)
    The BNP are not failing. Your analysis could not be more wrong. It perhaps suggests how little you actually know about the BNP. They are succeeding.
    Yes, 0.7%, a massive success

    :rolleyes:
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    In my opinion the BNP are ignorant, racist w****** who don't really understand much about the world of today - any party who wants to stop immigration (which is needed to stop our economy falling apart and support our aging population) and is a whites only party must be mental. I doubt they will ever get into power - or at least hope not. However, as others have said, this is a democracy and they should be free to air their views no matter how much we disagree - after all it provides me with a source of entertainement to see how people can say such stuff.
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Laika)
    Why do you think working class people are in the position to be more racist? Is there a magic working class gene that pre-programs them to be racist? Or could it be to do with social postion? I was merely rebutting that rather elitish remark, there's no denying that the BNP find most of their support amongst the working classes. I'd just rather not generalise an entire group of people into being racist just because they're ignorant whereas the middle classes all live harmoniously amongst all the ethnic minorities and all is well.

    The blame may be misguided but it's not irrelevant or exclusive to the working class.
    You're ignoring my main point, which is that the bitterness of racism is largely a product of a wider umbrella culture of blame.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Paul Bedford)
    Yes, 0.7%, a massive success

    :rolleyes:
    Things don't usually change overnight. People involved in the BNP understand that very well. Any small success that the BNP make is a tremendous achievement if you consider the context in which the success is made.

    The BNP have the full force of the government, the media, and the prevailing sociopolitical climate against them. The government can persecute BNP members and attempt to jail their leader - costing the party dearly in legal fees. The police can harrass and arrest BNP members going about their campaigning under "race hated" laws. The media can smear the BNP at will, and intensify their efforts in the build up to elections. The BNP have no access to the mainstream media, and any coverage they do receive is wholly negative. In contrast, mainstream parties have full access to the media. Mainstream parties also receive large amounts of money from rich donors.
    Mainstream parties organise to "stop" the BNP via undemocratic tactics. Searchlight and other fanatical Leftist organisations exist almost exclusively to hinder the BNP. BNP members can be sacked from their jobs, denied employment, or harrassed and intimidated in their jobs by fellow employees or by left-wing filth from UAF. All this exists in addition to the bizarre sociopolitical climate which has emerged over the past 40 and which works entirely against the BNP.

    Any small success made in this context is tremendous. These small successes will lead to larger and more frequent successes.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    Didn't the BNP allow a Greek man to join recently?
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by paddylad)
    Didn't the BNP allow a Greek man to join recently?
    no, though a Greek man could join if he wanted probably.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Surely the "bizzare sociopolitical climate which has emerged over the past 40 years" (as you call it) is a good thing for society at large as it means that racist nutters like the BNP can't gain a platform to air their views which are totally against a modern multicultural society? Additionally, isn't the bizzare sociopoltical climate a result of the people rather than someone enforcing things upon them (as you seem to think it is) - the world is more global than it was 40 years ago, most people understand far more about other cultures and have therefore moved on from the previous racist views which many people held because of ignorance. Their tiny tiny success is because some people cannot accept social change and have held on to previous rascist opinions - they want their lives and jobs etc protected from foreign people which is out of sync with what most people believe. The BNP represent the views of the past - no wonder they have so little success.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by MB__)
    Things don't usually change overnight. People involved in the BNP understand that very well. Any small success that the BNP make is a tremendous achievement if you consider the context in which the success is made.

    The BNP have the full force of the government, the media, and the prevailing sociopolitical climate against them. The government can persecute BNP members and attempt to jail their leader - costing the party dearly in legal fees. The police can harrass and arrest BNP members going about their campaigning under "race hated" laws. The media can smear the BNP at will, and intensify their efforts in the build up to elections. The BNP have no access to the mainstream media, and any coverage they do receive is wholly negative. In contrast, mainstream parties have full access to the media. Mainstream parties also receive large amounts of money from rich donors.
    Mainstream parties organise to "stop" the BNP via undemocratic tactics. Searchlight and other fanatical Leftist organisations exist almost exclusively to hinder the BNP. BNP members can be sacked from their jobs, denied employment, or harrassed and intimidated in their jobs by fellow employees or by left-wing filth from UAF. All this exists in addition to the bizarre sociopolitical climate which has emerged over the past 40 and which works entirely against the BNP.

    Any small success made in this context is tremendous. These small successes will lead to larger and more frequent successes.
    :congrats:

    Good post mate!

    (don't forget the peerages for "donations" with main partys)
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by MB__)
    Things don't usually change overnight.
    We're not talking overnight here though, are we?

    The BNP have the full force of the government, the media, and the prevailing sociopolitical climate against them.
    No it does not.

    The government spends less time on you than they do on the Liberals, the Conservatives and many other parties.

    You are almost insignificant to them.

    If they aimed the full force of thier power against you you would no exist.

    It wouldn't be hard to shut you down would it?

    The media by and large ignores you as a fringe party, almost insignificant to anything, the 12th smallest party in the country, ignored by the majority of the nation.

    You are not news worthy, but if they wanted to attack you they could, with a vengance.

    The sociopolitical climate has never been more in your favour than at present, with increasing immigration, and recent terrorist attrocities, that have made race, religion and ethnicity a major talking point, both in the political sphere and within society.

    So that was a bunch of crap.

    The government can persecute BNP members and attempt to jail their leader - costing the party dearly in legal fees.
    It's the CPS, and they can do the same to any other party, as they would do if their leader made similar comments.

    I personally think it's a bad prosecution, but it's still within the law, and the law applies to everyone.

    Let's not forget that Abu Hamza was facing similar charges at the same time, so it's hardly an anti-BNP thing, is it?

    The police can harrass and arrest BNP members going about their campaigning under "race hated" laws.
    Only if they breach those laws.

    The same is true for members of any other party.

    The media can smear the BNP at will, and intensify their efforts in the build up to elections.
    Although we have already seen you are virtually insignificant to the media, so you actually escape much lighter than all the other parties.

    The BNP have no access to the mainstream media
    How much access to the mainstream media do other parties with 0.7% of the vote get?

    and any coverage they do receive is wholly negative.
    Mainly because that is warranted by your activities.

    Tell me, if Tony Blair shoved dog **** through someones letterbox do you think he'd get positive reports in the media about it, or reports even more negative than the ones you got?

    In contrast, mainstream parties have full access to the media. Mainstream parties also receive large amounts of money from rich donors.
    They recive donations because people believe in them, or support them.

    You recieve donations too, however most people just laugh at you, so they don't feel like giving you money.

    Mainstream parties organise to "stop" the BNP via undemocratic tactics.
    Prove it.

    They organize against you no more than they organise against other parties.

    You are getting way to paranoid there.

    Tony Blair does not ring up Cameron and plot against you, trust me, you are not that significant to him.

    Searchlight and other fanatical Leftist organisations exist almost exclusively to hinder the BNP.
    And searchlight is read by how many people?

    Readership of about 1000 (about 750 estimated to be BNP members wetting themselves)?

    The conservatives have labour against them, labour has the conservatives against them (both with memberships in the millions), and yet you moan because some old bloke sitting in a house in London somewhere puts out the occassional news letter that most of the country isn't even aware of?

    BNP members can be sacked from their jobs, denied employment, or harrassed and intimidated in their jobs by fellow employees or by left-wing filth from UAF
    Only if they chose to announce their political allegiances.

    Do you think a Thatcherite in the miners strike would have had it any easier?

    Do you think a communist in the armed forces during the falklands would have had it easier?

    What's your problem here, do you want it all handed to you on a plate?

    All this exists in addition to the bizarre sociopolitical climate which has emerged over the past 40 and which works entirely against the BNP.
    See above

    Any small success made in this context is tremendous. These small successes will lead to larger and more frequent successes.
    No, 0.7% is abject failure, considering you have no more to contend against than any other party, and in some cases, as seen above, even less.

    No amount of whinging or blaming dark conspiracies that do not exist is going to detract from the fact that the real reason you have only got 0.7% of the vote is because 99.3% of the nation think you are a joke.

    They see crap policies, they see lies on your website, they see a leader who is an ex-nazi, flip flop merchant, they see links to criminals and terrorists, and a party that couldn't even organize a school party, let alone run a country.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    ^ In the words of Amon, good post mate!!:top:
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by paddylad)
    Didn't the BNP allow a Greek man to join recently?
    No, he was ethnically one quarter Arabic, grandson of a muslim no less, who they then tried to paint as ethnically Armenian (because his grandfather lived in Armenia at some stage) when the party realised that they had a "non-white" member standing for them, although in the panic to spin their way out of the mess they did initially claim he was part greek.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by MB__)
    Things don't usually change overnight. People involved in the BNP understand that very well. Any small success that the BNP make is a tremendous achievement if you consider the context in which the success is made.

    The BNP have the full force of the government, the media, and the prevailing sociopolitical climate against them. The police can harrass and arrest BNP members going about their campaigning under "race hated" laws. The media can smear the BNP at will, and intensify their efforts in the build up to elections. The BNP have no access to the mainstream media, and any coverage they do receive is wholly negative. In contrast, mainstream parties have full access to the media. Mainstream parties also receive large amounts of money from rich donors.
    Mainstream parties organise to "stop" the BNP via undemocratic tactics. Searchlight and other fanatical Leftist organisations exist almost exclusively to hinder the BNP. BNP members can be sacked from their jobs, denied employment, or harrassed and intimidated in their jobs by fellow employees or by left-wing filth from UAF. All this exists in addition to the bizarre sociopolitical climate which has emerged over the past 40 and which works entirely against the BNP.

    Any small success made in this context is tremendous. These small successes will lead to larger and more frequent successes.
    Ah, so the prodigal fool returns; it's been some time.

    I would pick this post to bits, but I feel that Paul Beford has already accomplished this most admirably.

    However, just one point:

    The government can persecute BNP members and attempt to jail their leader - costing the party dearly in legal fees.
    Well, as has already been pointed out, the CPS is an entirely different entity to your nebulous idea of the "goverment".

    Or is the CPS, along with the BBC and just about every other organisation in Britain, also in on the conspiracy against those brave truth-tellers in the BNP? Paranoia

    Anyway, the piont I really wanted to make, which I suppose fits in with the recurring idea of the BNP's dodgy finances, is: Why is the BNP paying for Nick Griffin's legal fees? Is this standard procedure? Does the BNP offer him health insurance payed for by the party's members as well?

    I dare say you would have more "rich donors", if said prospective "rich donors" could be sure of the party's finances.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Johnny)
    Well, as has already been pointed out, the CPS is an entirely different entity to your nebulous idea of the "goverment".

    Or is the CPS also in on the conspiracy against those brave truth-tellers in the BNP, along with the BBC and just about every other organisation in Britain, all of who just want to hide the "truth" (being "fanatical" lefties and whatnot)? Paranoia
    CPS is controlled by the government (the Labour party).

    (Original post by Johnny)
    Anyway, the piont I really wanted to make, which I suppose fits in with the recurring idea of the BNP's dodgy finances, is: Why is the BNP paying for Nick Griffin's legal fees? Is this standard procedure? Do the BNP offer him health insurance payed for by the party's members as well?

    I dare say you would have more "rich donors", if said prospective "rich donors" could be sure of the party's finances.
    He's a party member, the party pay for many peoples fees in court (they have done it beforE).
 
 
 
Poll
“Yanny” or “Laurel”
Useful resources

Groups associated with this forum:

View associated groups

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.