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Oxford gang found guilty of grooming and sexually exploiting girls Watch

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    Struggling to keep up here, but I'd tentatively say arguments regarding a particular, hypothetical subculture being evidenced in the statistics are quite persuasive.

    Still though, I'd be very wary of drawing broader conclusions about British Muslims, or Pakistanis or whatever from this (and I'm aware some of the most persuasive posters explicitly haven't). Just for a bit of a different perspective: I live in South East Asia, where there is a notorious tradition of both outright paedophilia and exploitative if not illegal behaviour perpetrated by white, Western men. I'd still be incandescent if anyone suggested I had any affinity with them because I happen to be white, British and even hold sexually liberal views.
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    (Original post by Lazar Wolf)
    You say you're not racist but your remarks above (highlighted in bold) certainly point to a chip being on your shoulder.

    Perhaps I should point out the facts again:
    "CEOP study:

    http://www.channel4.com/news/ceop-wa...grooming-study

    In their words:

    In the grooming statistics, 49% were white and 46% Asian: the proportion of Pakistani Asians remains unknown. However, in a country where Asians constitute 7% of the general population, this is a striking figure.

    We believe that there are two main profiles of the on-street groomer. First, we have the white offenders, who typically offend alone. So far, nothing new: the lone white male is the norm for UK child sex offences. Second, however, there are Asian offenders, many of whom are of Pakistani origin. They seem much more likely to offend in groups, lending their abuse a curiously social dimension. In our research, which focuses on large offending groups, we analysed police data from five major on-street grooming investigations. Of the 52 suspects charged, 83% were Asian Pakistani, 11% Asian other and 6% white British. These are shocking statistics and the over-representation of Asian offenders within this dataset certainly merits attention."

    How many times must I tell you that I am not saying that all Pakistanis or all Muslims or all Pakistani Muslims for that matter are doing this. It is a subculture held by a minority of them, and one that needs to be rooted out. Education,the influence of communities and community leaders, passing information to the police and not ignoring these crimes would destroy the subcultural fabric of these grooming gangs. Grooming gangs occur when groups of men get together, groups of men who think it is all right to have sex with children. They share the same ideas, the same motivation, and form the grooming gang. there are white grooming gangs, there are black grooming gangs, and there are also Muslimi Pakistani grooming gangs. What has shocked me and millioins like me is the overrepresentation of Muslim Pakistanis in the grooming statistics.

    When Stephen Lawrence was murdered by white youths, and the family were let down by the judicial system in this country, the white host majority had to take a long look at itself and admit to racist elements in their society and institutions, and since then efforts have been made to stamp out racism whenever possible in all walks of life. When there is massive overrepresentation of Muslim Pakistanis amongst the grooming paedophile statistics, along with prosecution of course, the onus falls on community leaders and people of the aforementioned community to do something abuot this. Many notable Muslim Pakistanis have had the courage to do so:

    Mohammed Shafiq, chairman of the Ramadan Foundation:has said there is a "problem" of British Pakistani men thinking "white girls are worthless and can be abused".

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...ester-17996245

    Nazir Afzal has stated that some Pakistani men have 'cultural baggage'.

    And here there are the words of Lady Warsi, chairwoman of the conservative party and a British Pakistani Muslim, who has stated that a 'Minority Of Pakistani Men Think White Girls Are 'Fair Game' For Sex Abuse

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012...n_1526854.html

    These people, Muslim Pakistanis, have had the guts to speak out and identify this very real problem. You haven't. The more people bury their heads in the sand, the more children like the ones tortured and abused in Oxford will suffer.
    Why do you keep giving me percentages? What does 49% or whatever you keep telling me mean. Why don't you just tell me the actual number? For example say next year there were 2 murders and one of them was from a Chinese man and the other from an English man, you could say 50% of all murders are from Chinese people therefore Chinese people are killers when in reality the numbers are too small to draw up any conclusions, in this case yes there is a higher percentage of asians, but it doesn't mean anything because the numbers are so small, you'll find it's only around 300 or so asians (not even Pakistanis) so the numbers aren't big enough to draw up conclusion saying Pakistanis have a cultural problem. Oh and you highlighted the part of me saying white people are more represented in crimes such as robberies than asians and you said that's racist.... Oh the irony of this whole thing, it's only racist when it's done to a white person but not Asian LOL and all that is a reaction of white people being racist by generalising, I wouldn't say any of that stuff if white people didn't accuse me of being a rapist etc. pretty much all my friends are white but if this is the stuff that they think then alright. The Internet is good at telling me what white people really think, they hide it in real life because your all too scared to say it then but inside there's a lot of racism in the white community. Maybe I should start making friends with asians/black people instead, at least I can trust them because they're not two faced, when there's no asians around you all start going on about how much you dislike asians like strong cowards and I know because I've been told. Cowards. And those Pakistanis coming out are just butt liking trying to get white people on their side.
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    (Original post by thesabbath)
    lol yes lets revert to hating on blacks and their all-powerful race card, we can take the heat off muslims that way.

    this is a good analysis of why political correctness allowed these crimes to continue: http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/se...-mention-them/
    No I was saying you shouldn't blame ANY community because of a few and i used black/white people as an example and tried to ask why you don't go after them when they're over represented in a lot of crime figures. I would prefer it of no one went after a whole community but I'm just asking if 1 crime is over represented by asians then why not go after the million other crimes which a larger majority of other communities take part in. Oh and can I just ask why you're too thick to understand that Pakistani doesn't mean Muslim? I'm a Pakistani that's not a Muslim and many many other Pakistanis aren't Muslim so get that in your head. You're too scared to go after the big black man so you go after asians (which a large portion are non violent professionals such as doctors, engineers etc) lol you cowards, 'I'm too scared to say anything to black people even though hey commit a million times more crimes than asians because black people are scary and I don't want that BBC in me' hahahahha
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    (Original post by /fit/)
    Another one of these paedophile gangs. It makes me sick thinking about how many other gangs are still out there right now, doing the same thing. Thought on this?

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/ma...grooming-girls
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...shire-22438623
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...shire-22164676

    I don't understand why someone negged this.
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    (Original post by AverageExcellence)
    Qur’an 23:1-6—The believers must (eventually) win through—those who humble themselves in their prayers; who avoid vain talk; who are active in deeds of charity; who abstain from sex, except with those joined to them in the marriage bond, or (the captives) whom their right hands possess—for (in their case) they are free from blame.
    Red herring.

    Can you outline how these girls were captives of war?


    Give me the statistics you claimed you had, that said the "overwhelming majority" sexual abuse and rape in Europe is committed by muslims

    Not speculation from a anti Islam website, or a list of rapes committed y muslims which you have tried to pass of as "statistics".


    Does it hurt your pride to admit your wrong?

    Posted from TSR Mobile
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    (Original post by Theoneoranro)
    No I was saying you shouldn't blame ANY community because of a few and i used black/white people as an example and tried to ask why you don't go after them when they're over represented in a lot of crime figures. I would prefer it of no one went after a whole community but I'm just asking if 1 crime is over represented by asians then why not go after the million other crimes which a larger majority of other communities take part in. Oh and can I just ask why you're too thick to understand that Pakistani doesn't mean Muslim? I'm a Pakistani that's not a Muslim and many many other Pakistanis aren't Muslim so get that in your head. You're too scared to go after the big black man so you go after asians (which a large portion are non violent professionals such as doctors, engineers etc) lol you cowards, 'I'm too scared to say anything to black people even though hey commit a million times more crimes than asians because black people are scary and I don't want that BBC in me' hahahahha
    we're collectively "scared" of the law you idiot, all those affirmative action and "hate crime" laws and "racism" offences put in place to protect minorities specifically because no one wanted mass immigration of alien cultures in the first place. one day that dam will break.

    i agree with you that black crime over-representation is just as ridiculous and look forward to your contributions on that subject in the future (since most people will say its racist to even mention it) but this is still a thread about pakistani muslims.
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    (Original post by flyingarmbarman)
    no, im sure you will be commended for your well researched and einstein-like conclusions.
    ^Prime example... :congrats:
    :confused: I can't understand the ridiculously over the top defensive response there... I didn't make any claim for it to be absolute fact. I in fact stated that it was 'just an observation' (happens to be quite an obvious one thought tbh) - your sarcastic response doesn't make sense.

    EDIT: Oh wait you're banned with negative rep, makes much more sense now.
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    (Original post by Theoneoranro)
    Why do you keep giving me percentages? What does 49% or whatever you keep telling me mean. Why don't you just tell me the actual number? For example say next year there were 2 murders and one of them was from a Chinese man and the other from an English man, you could say 50% of all murders are from Chinese people therefore Chinese people are killers when in reality the numbers are too small to draw up any conclusions, in this case yes there is a higher percentage of asians, but it doesn't mean anything because the numbers are so small, you'll find it's only around 300 or so asians (not even Pakistanis) so the numbers aren't big enough to draw up conclusion saying Pakistanis have a cultural problem. Oh and you highlighted the part of me saying white people are more represented in crimes such as robberies than asians and you said that's racist.... Oh the irony of this whole thing, it's only racist when it's done to a white person but not Asian LOL and all that is a reaction of white people being racist by generalising, I wouldn't say any of that stuff if white people didn't accuse me of being a rapist etc. pretty much all my friends are white but if this is the stuff that they think then alright. The Internet is good at telling me what white people really think, they hide it in real life because your all too scared to say it then but inside there's a lot of racism in the white community. Maybe I should start making friends with asians/black people instead, at least I can trust them because they're not two faced, when there's no asians around you all start going on about how much you dislike asians like strong cowards and I know because I've been told. Cowards. And those Pakistanis coming out are just butt liking trying to get white people on their side.
    I feel from what you have written above, as well as the glaring and obstinate denial that you have of this very serious (and tragic) problem, I feel it is fair comment to state that you do have racist attitudes, and despite my aforementioned appeals with all due respect your postings are now beginning to descend into nothing other than incomprehensible and at times vicious diatribes.

    Keep burying your head in the sand over these vicious crimes. Thank God there are other courageous Pakistanis who will not.
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    (Original post by Xotol)
    I understand why cultural vindication takes priority for some people, but all vehemently denying a possible connection does is reduce progress (which could help stop this happening in the future!). By all means, don't let your culture and religion be generalised with these people, but surely you want to determine if something in either is leading to these acts!

    Too often I see people crying over media bias... 'oh why didn't they headline these white people abusing these women'. Sure, that may be true, but why not accept that there's still a problem with some British Muslims and aim to tackle that problem? It's always the blame game...

    I feel like I'm the only British originally from the ME that feels this way... :facepalm2:
    I see what you mean, it's a fine line to tread. A classic case of 'there seems to be a correlation depending on race here, it's a problem' because if the PC retards hear anything that could remotely discriminate they call you racist, even though what you are saying is to achieve a goal that stops stuff like this happening - further helping communities and stopping any kind of divide between people - which is quite the opposite of everything racism is.

    ^PC mad people annoy me cuz they fail to see this. Or are too thick, and have it drummed into their minds that 'discrimination of any sort is bad, you are bad'.
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    (Original post by Umar1)
    Red herring.

    Can you outline how these girls were captives of war?


    Give me the statistics you claimed you had, that said the "overwhelming majority" sexual abuse and rape in Europe is committed by muslims

    Not speculation from a anti Islam website, or a list of rapes committed y muslims which you have tried to pass of as "statistics".


    Does it hurt your pride to admit your wrong?

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Can you actually quote the post where this person said or implied an 'overwhelming majority', because I can't find it, and it would appear that you've misread what they did say.
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    (Original post by thesabbath)
    we're collectively "scared" of the law you idiot, all those affirmative action and "hate crime" laws and "racism" offences put in place to protect minorities specifically because no one wanted mass immigration of alien cultures in the first place. one day that dam will break.

    i agree with you that black crime over-representation is just as ridiculous and look forward to your contributions on that subject in the future (since most people will say its racist to even mention it) but this is still a thread about pakistani muslims.
    No I mean that the people who say all these things about Asians are too scared to say anything to the black community because they know black people don't take that crap while Asians don't usually fight back. If you say something to an immigrant born and raised in Pakistan, they're never going to fight back or say anything because they're too scared, they're not violent, that's why you pick on Asians.
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    (Original post by Theoneoranro)
    No I mean that the people who say all these things about Asians are too scared to say anything to the black community because they know black people don't take that crap while Asians don't usually fight back. If you say something to an immigrant born and raised in Pakistan, they're never going to fight back or say anything because they're too scared, they're not violent, that's why you pick on Asians.
    so you're stereotyping every group apart from your own, while complaining that white people stereotype you. it's hard to empathise especially given the subject matter of this thread
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    (Original post by Theoneoranro)
    No I mean that the people who say all these things about Asians are too scared to say anything to the black community because they know black people don't take that crap while Asians don't usually fight back. If you say something to an immigrant born and raised in Pakistan, they're never going to fight back or say anything because they're too scared, they're not violent, that's why you pick on Asians.
    No-one's saying anything about Asians as a whole, or anything about Pakistanis as a whole, or Muslims as a whole, or Pakistani Muslim men as a whole. Get your head out of your arse.
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    (Original post by thesabbath)
    so you're stereotyping every group apart from your own, while complaining that white people stereotype you. it's hard to empathise especially given the subject matter of this thread
    What are you talking about? Who am I stereotyping?
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    (Original post by Ronove)
    No-one's saying anything about Asians as a whole, or anything about Pakistanis as a whole, or Muslims as a whole, or Pakistani Muslim men as a whole. Get your head out of your arse.
    Then why are you even discussing race?
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    (Original post by thesabbath)
    so you're stereotyping every group apart from your own, while complaining that white people stereotype you. it's hard to empathise especially given the subject matter of this thread
    Well said.

    He's a very angry, very illogical and tempermentally inhinged man.
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    (Original post by Theoneoranro)
    Lol he sends a link to a far right racist website for proof. That's like sending a link to the BNP wesbite to prove something. In the end of the day you're probably just another white kid who pretends to be nice to everyone but when he goes home he starts acting alpha and posting about how much he hates asians/muslims. But in real life he's too scared to say anything to a pakistani
    Wow, look who it is - I remember you posting the exact same bull and deflecting and denying like crazy when the good people of TSR were discussing the Rochdale cases.

    The irony. Almost precisely a year ago. Perhaps you should go back and read that whole thread and see if you stand by all those denials now we have yet again (as many on that thread predicted accurately) almost a carbon copy of the Rochdale cases...

    Would they be too scared to say something to a 'quater white Italian'?
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    (Original post by Ronove)
    No-one's saying anything about Asians as a whole, or anything about Pakistanis as a whole, or Muslims as a whole, or Pakistani Muslim men as a whole. Get your head out of your arse.
    haha, lies and lies. Go on the dailymail comment section and then tell me that people haven't demonized the whole Pakistani community.
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    (Original post by Theoneoranro)
    Why do you keep giving me percentages? What does 49% or whatever you keep telling me mean. Why don't you just tell me the actual number? [...]
    Nonsense snipped.

    If you want to see how many are in the sample, just read the links he provided, all that straw manning was unnecessary, the numbers are provided. Percentages just provide a much more easily comparative set of data.

    In any case, you are going round and round. These statistics are not new to you. I discussed these same statistics with you last year when the Rochdale cases were being discussed and you still are trying to pick holes in them.

    How predictable...

    Referring to the CEOP statistics

    The Ceop study looked at the 2,379 potential offenders, reported to Ceop for grooming since 2008. The vast majority were men and most were aged 18 to 24. Of the 940 suspects who were fully identified...
    You quibbling percentages in an attempt to claim that [940 samples out of 2,379 events] CEOP's study is statistically unreliable is total *******s.
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    (Original post by Umar1)
    Red herring.

    Can you outline how these girls were captives of war?


    Give me the statistics you claimed you had, that said the "overwhelming majority" sexual abuse and rape in Europe is committed by muslims

    Not speculation from a anti Islam website, or a list of rapes committed y muslims which you have tried to pass of as "statistics".


    Does it hurt your pride to admit your wrong?

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Lol so because a website is detrimental to Islam, citing many examples and asserting official opinions its deemed anti islamic.. Ok sounds right...
 
 
 
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