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What percentage of blame, if at all any, rests with the victim during rape? Watch

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    (Original post by Saoirse:3)
    None what so ever. Men should be taught not to rape, rather than women being taught not to get raped - only those who commit rape can completely prevent it from happening, no matter what the victim wears, where they walk, or what time they travel at.
    They can drastically reduce the risk of stranger rape though, and most do.
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    (Original post by MostUncivilised)
    That makes no sense. It is extreme feminists and religious nutcases who claim men can't control themselves, hence the former demanding boys be "taught not to rape".
    I always see MRAs claiming that if a woman was wearing a short skirt, then clearly she was at least partially responsible for the rape because the man was just so so so aroused that he couldn't control himself

    There is such a thing, it's called a condom. A woman is free to demand a condom at any time.[/quote]

    No I meant male equivalents of the pill etc
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    (Original post by Катя)
    I always see MRAs claiming that if a woman was wearing a short skirt, then clearly she was at least partially responsible for the rape because the man was just so so so aroused that he couldn't control himself
    To be honest, I've never seen mens rights activists claim such a thing. I know many feminists believe that MRAs think such things, but many feminists have quite a warped view of MRAs.

    Admittedly, there are some very bitter MRAs who are not so much mens rights activists as misogyny ranting activists, but one should not confuse the two.

    No I meant male equivalents of the pill etc
    Given that there are already effective contraceptives, that seems quite churlish. It seems to be based on a kind of bitterness against men, a belief they "have it easy" and have to be made to pay
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    (Original post by manchesterunited15)
    Rape is the only crime where advising people on how to minimize the chance of it happening is dismissed as 'victim blaming'.
    Because people think it's the same but it's not.

    "Don't play with your phone in a dark alley" is not the same as "don't wear a short skirt" or even "don't get drunk". The first is sensible the latter two regarding rape are telling women not to do something that men can. They are saying "don't take part in culture".
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    (Original post by SarcasticMel)
    Because people think it's the same but it's not.

    "Don't play with your phone in a dark alley" is not the same as "don't wear a short skirt" or even "don't get drunk". The first is sensible the latter two regarding rape are telling women not to do something that men can. They are saying "don't take part in culture".
    How about "don't leave your drink unattended in a club" and "don't walk home alone through a bad area"?
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    None.
    And stop using the word feminazi, I don't think wanting to be treated with the same respect as men is anything close to naziism.
    Thank you.
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    That girl who was raped after walking home from mancheste city centre should maybe have been less wreckless but I would say blame is the wrong word. More promoting a situation where it is more likely to take place.
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    It's rather circumstantial, imo, you cannot say the victim [of any crime] can be regarded as totally blameless unless there is nothing more they could have [reasonably] done to prevent the crime from happening. And there will be, of course, with I should think all crimes cases where the blame can be put more heavily upon the victim than the offender.


    (Original post by cmrxoxo)
    None.
    And stop using the word feminazi, I don't think wanting to be treated with the same respect as men is anything close to naziism.
    Thank you.
    You don't seem to understand that those who are referred to as feminazis (or at least if fingers are pointed correctly) are the more radical feminists, you know, the ones that make people not want to associate with the movement who seem to think that for some reason men should be subjugated and/or eliminated.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    It's rather circumstantial, imo, you cannot say the victim [of any crime] can be regarded as totally blameless unless there is nothing more they could have [reasonably] done to prevent the crime from happening. And there will be, of course, with I should think all crimes cases where the blame can be put more heavily upon the victim than the offender.



    You don't seem to understand that those who are referred to as feminazis (or at least if fingers are pointed correctly) are the more radical feminists, you know, the ones that make people not want to associate with the movement who seem to think that for some reason men should be subjugated and/or eliminated.
    I know what people are referred to when people say 'feminazi'. Misandrists. Misandry is NOT feminism, whether they say they're feminists or not. And actual real feminists who are decent people and want some good to come out of the movement should not be given the stick for it. Using such phrases is contributing to the damaged reputation of feminists as much as misandrists are. It makes me so angry being attacked, and seeing others like me attacked every day on social media purely for wanting equal treatment. Hardly makes us ********s, does it?
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    (Original post by MostUncivilised)
    Given that there are already effective contraceptives, that seems quite churlish. It seems to be based on a kind of bitterness against men, a belief they "have it easy" and have to be made to pay
    Not at all, just that it would really massively get rid of the chances of unplanned pregnancy. Also, condoms aren't really everyone's favourite.
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    (Original post by Катя)
    condoms aren't really everyone's favourite.
    Indeed. I suppose some women prefer abortions
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    (Original post by Saoirse:3)
    None what so ever. Men should be taught not to rape, rather than women being taught not to get raped - only those who commit rape can completely prevent it from happening, no matter what the victim wears, where they walk, or what time they travel at.
    men are not taught to rape lol
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    (Original post by manchesterunited15)
    How about "don't leave your drink unattended in a club" and "don't walk home alone through a bad area"?
    So easy to slip something into a drink even when not unattended. And the latter, stranger rape is not that common as people think.
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    To all those people who are saying things to the effect of "a victim of a crime is never to carry blame" consider the following (obviously with interchangeable genders):
    A girl is out on a night out. On this night out they spike somebody's drink, unbeknownst to them they later come across this individual. They have both had a few drinks, the girl is dressed, acting and speaking in a suggestive manner. {Fill in with reasonable progression}. The girl is then raped by the individual who's drink they spiked. Is the girl truly free from blame?

    Or, for a slight variation (following the same general line, so only putting the changed details):
    The girl is out with friends, she will be staying the night with one of them as she cannot make it home and their friend lives close by. This friend has some sexual feelings towards the girl. [Same general line from before, the spiked drink is this friend]. They then go home, she is raped.
    Again, can you truly say you believe that no blame can be layed upon them?

    The point of the examples is that you cannot make the blanket statement that you cannot blame them, you have to look at the particular circumstances.

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    (Original post by MostUncivilised)
    Indeed. I suppose some women prefer abortions
    The ****? If anything, it's the guy who usually complains that he can't come with a condom on ... ... ... ...

    ... also, the pill? the implant? the injection? the iud?

    no, sorry, you're right, it's condom or abortion
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    To all those people who are saying things to the effect of "a victim of a crime is never to carry blame" consider the following (obviously with interchangeable genders):
    A girl is out on a night out. On this night out they spike somebody's drink, unbeknownst to them they later come across this individual. They have both had a few drinks, the girl is dressed, acting and speaking in a suggestive manner. {Fill in with reasonable progression}. The girl is then raped by the individual who's drink they spiked. Is the girl truly free from blame?

    Or, for a slight variation (following the same general line, so only putting the changed details):
    The girl is out with friends, she will be staying the night with one of them as she cannot make it home and their friend lives close by. This friend has some sexual feelings towards the girl. [Same general line from before, the spiked drink is this friend]. They then go home, she is raped.
    Again, can you truly say you believe that no blame can be layed upon them?

    The point of the examples is that you cannot make the blanket statement that you cannot blame them, you have to look at the particular circumstances.

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    The mental gymnastics some people will do to excuse the appalling behaviour of some others.

    1. I think most people on this thread are talking about the most common occurrences of rape and say that victims of rape should/shouldn't be blamed. I didn't see anybody excusing murderers (or else) so your "a victim of a crime is never to carry blame" (counter-)argument is a bit irrelevant.

    2. What you wrote are extremely specific scenerii that would belong in a recent season Law & Order: SVU.
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    (Original post by Slainery)
    The mental gymnastics some people will do to excuse the appalling behaviour of some others.
    It's hardly mental gymnastics, it's a simple enough system to demonstrate a point, there is also quite a clear difference between "excusing appalling behaviour" and providing something for people to think about.

    1. I think most people on this thread are talking about the most common occurrences of rape and say that victims of rape should/shouldn't be blamed. I didn't see anybody excusing murderers (or else) so your "a victim of a crime is never to carry blame" (counter-)argument is a bit irrelevant.
    This sounds a lot to me like you're trying to find some excuse to dismiss the argument when you know full well that it shows that the victim isn't necessarily free from blame. And anyway, the question is a out what percentage of blame is on the victim, the question doesn't limit it to the most common occurrences, the question should, if answered properly, consider all [reasonable] courses of events, whether they have happened or not, whether they ever will happen or not.

    2. What you wrote are extremely specific scenerii that would belong in a recent season Law & Order: SVU.
    And I wouldn't be at all surprised if it has actually happened several times. The point of the scenario wasn't that it is likely to happen in reality, the point of the argument was to demonstrate that it is possible to construct a far from impossible situation in which case it is totally illogical to apportion no blame upon the victim.

    Personally, I take the view that the victim of any action is always at least partly to blame, but how much so is pretty difficult to tell. In the scenario it would be a fairly large chunk of blame; if somebody was just randomly walking down the street and was attacked for no apparent reason (even after looking closer) then it will be very little.


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    (Original post by Wattsy)
    I was an OK kid in school but if I had to do an Citizenship style lesson on that I'd have kicked up a massive fuss about it and made sure everyone else did too. I cannot believe that humanity in general has reached a stage where it's knowledge of right and wrong is so skewed that we feel the need to preach it to teenage children. I can't believe this because it hasn't. 99% of men will never even get anywhere near the line where rape and consent begin to blur.
    Oh come on now, have you never been making out with some horny drunk girl and have had to stop and think "wait is she TOO drunk for me to do this? ****. Do I need to stop?"

    Its not always an obvious dividing line.

    Same with the sliding scale from seduction, persuasion to pressure, coercion. If a girl initially isn't into it but then changes her mind after you've charmed her a bit, and what point is that ok? How sure do you have to be that she genuinely does want to do it and doesn't just feel pressured?

    These are difficult questions.
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    (Original post by manchesterunited15)
    How about "don't leave your drink unattended in a club" and "don't walk home alone through a bad area"?
    What if you live in a bad area, how are you going to avoid it then?
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    (Original post by cole-slaw)
    What if you live in a bad area, how are you going to avoid it then
    Did I say it can be avoided in every single case? :facepalm2:
 
 
 
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