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I'm a 2:2 graduate I can't even get minimum wage jobs Watch

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    (Original post by SloaneRanger)
    Yeah, what he fails to recognise he isn't working for free, he is getting JSA on a work trial. They could cut him off for not doing, its effectively a wage. We are so lucky in this country, whether i was getting £9-10 an hour or £45-50k a year the satisfaction of doing a days work and open that payslip is priceless.
    Do you still get a paper pay slip?
    I havent seen one of those since 2008.
    And the satisfaction only comes if you arent dying inside because of your job...
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    (Original post by Quady)
    Do you still get a paper pay slip?
    I havent seen one of those since 2008.
    And the satisfaction only comes if you arent dying inside because of your job...
    Yeah, get both online and paper, i guess to keep for tax reasons. Yeah im dying most days but i count the days to payday, its the only thing that gets me through the day.
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    (Original post by NX172)
    There is no guarantee that a degree will get you a job. All the degree is, is to say you've gained the basic knowledge (not skills) to be able to do a job in the profession. Note, you do not yet have the skills to do the job at hand. The fact that a graduate is more or less useless coming out of uni, it is the benevolence of an employer to take on a risk (you, the graduate) and train you up, expecting little real productivity in your first few years. Why should an employer invest time and money to do that? They could just recruit a junior who already has an idea of what they're doing. None of them owe you that privilege for simply holding a degree. They invest in you hoping to see real passion to blossom into a productive employee. Whining on forums as opposed to learning the skills that are clearly bullet pointed on the job description isn't showing any resolve to achieving that goal.

    You can ignore my previous post all you like, as you send the impression of some sort of over-entitlement of studying a degree without wanting to do any extra work to get the job. I'm sorry, the market is this competitive. It's this sort of attitude to working that can be directly attributed to your current situation.

    But I assure you in IT, that 'hard work' was only just the beginning; as IT is one of those careers that require career-long learning. You get as much as you put in.
    This is an absolutely excellent and dare I say inspiring post. Well done sir
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    (Original post by MUN123)
    Computer science is a challenging degree compared to other degree. Other subjects you can get away with making mistakes and come out with a good grade whereas in my degree if we couldn't hand in a working program we would pretty much fail the module
    You have a lot of excuses for yourself. Can you code or not?

    If you're looking for IT or SE jobs, it won't hurt to keep a few project on the go in your GitHub repo. Employers love that stuff! Make sure you're also learning new technology and learning things that will be relevant to the job you want. Want a job at Twitter? Learn Scala and make sure you're s**t hot with distributed systems. Want a job at Jane Street Capital? Learn OCaml and relevant information about trading. You know how it goes.. Soon you'll either have a job or a pretty impressive CV. Not to mention all of the projects you'll have going on Git. What you shouldn't do is sit on your ass all day like you probably did whilst on your degree. Better yourself!
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    (Original post by NX172)
    Nonsense. I can immediately tell how experienced and knowledgeable someone is from just a 2 minute discussion on the IT industry.
    **** me, the sheer level of arrogance and self delusion is painful. No wonder our industry is completely ****ed with people like you in positions of responsibility.
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    (Original post by Tom_Ford)
    You are living in the land of the hypothetical. I can hypothesize too, look: all with 2.2's are dumb and/or too lazy to overcompensate for their lack of natural ability.
    As someone who's employed on a considerable salary and actively recruits for other trainees I can safely say I don't live in a magical fantasy land. If you have a 2.1 or a first but no experience of the world of work (relevant or not) no one is going to hire you. Especially over the 2.2 grad who has work experience and has utilised their time efficiently and cultured contacts etc.


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    (Original post by cole-slaw)
    **** me, the sheer level of arrogance and self delusion is painful. No wonder our industry is completely ****ed with people like you in positions of responsibility.
    This. Exactly this. Sums up the majority of TSR in my experience.


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    What puts people off more than anything is a sense of entitlement. Do not think 'well I have a degree in blah so I can just turn up and get offers' but look at the jobs you want and think 'what do I need in order to get it?'. I'm not an IT professional so I can't give technical examples but if the job description says 'must have proven leadership skills' then if you don't have them there is no point applying until you have some examples of demonstrating those skills.
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    (Original post by PhysioMatt)
    As someone who's employed on a considerable salary and actively recruits for other trainees I can safely say I don't live in a magical fantasy land. If you have a 2.1 or a first but no experience of the world of work (relevant or not) no one is going to hire you. Especially over the 2.2 grad who has work experience and has utilised their time efficiently and cultured contacts etc.


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    So really we are coming to the conclusion that a university education is becoming less and less important to getting a better living. Which is the main reason why people choose to go. Who do we have to thank for this?
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    I think people are over-analysing this.

    The OP has no work experience, and is unwilling to get any by working for nothing. In a world where graduates with better connections and better degrees are working unpaid for months in places with more job opportunities in order to get a first foot on the ladder, the OP is expecting to be hired straight from the dole queue in an unemployment blackspot.

    Moreover, the OP's position will only get worse unless he does something about it. After a time, group think sets in. Hirers will think "I can see nothing wrong with him, but there must be a problem with him, otherwise he wouldn't have been out of work so long. Next please!"
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    (Original post by Midlander)
    So really we are coming to the conclusion that a university education is becoming less and less important to getting a better living. Which is the main reason why people choose to go. Who do we have to thank for this?
    The poster talked about someone with a 2.ii v 2.i - not degree v no degree.
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    (Original post by Tom_Ford)
    What? I got a 2.1 from a RG uni in Law with relatively minimal work. I am still out of a job since graduation in 2013. It is very difficult out there, very few jobs to give and intense competition.
    People without jobs don't deserve jobs. It's hardly difficult to get work. I managed it as a spotty 13 year old with only sats to go by through just by turning up at the shop.
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    Work on your cv and interview techniques. I graduated in 2011 with no previous job experience at all. After 5 failed interviews I was successfully accepted onto a internship, paying £15000 pro rata for 6 months. Youll have to lower your expectation since your starting out at the bottom.
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    Just as a word of caution, from a managerial science perspective, "working in IT" is the 21st century equivalent of factory work. There are thousands upon thousands of people graduating every year with competent IT and coding skills. The competition is intense, but when you get the job most people are extremely disappointed. Most IT firms operate a flat hierarchical structure, meaning extremely limited promotion opportunities. In the profession the phrase used to describe low level IT developers is "code monkeys". You throw specs at them, they have x days to produce working code. Its a never ending monotonous cycle.

    Yeah its reasonably well paid, yeah you get to sit in a comfortable chair probably in a reasonably decent air conditioned office, its hardly like going down the mine. But if someone with any ability whatsoever asked me the very, very last job they should consider doing, I'd say software development.
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    (Original post by SloaneRanger)
    Your obviously smart by getting a decent grade from an alright uni, why not hate on the people that stopped you from achieving more? Only you know your potential and if you have achieved it.
    I have bigger fish to fry.

    About to launch my tech start up, product is pretty much finished.

    Degrees are important, but if you let that hold you back from being successful, then you are not built for the commercial environment because you can't think outside the box. Going to Oxford etc cannot teach you this. (General entrepreneurial skills) Either you have it , or you don't. That's why I find your elitism pathetic at times.

    There is no excuse. Crying over spilt milk will not help you become successful, it's how you pick yourself up from a set back that defines a man.
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    (Original post by cole-slaw)
    Just as a word of caution, from a managerial science perspective, "working in IT" is the 21st century equivalent of factory work. There are thousands upon thousands of people graduating every year with competent IT and coding skills. The competition is intense, but when you get the job most people are extremely disappointed. Most IT firms operate a flat hierarchical structure, meaning extremely limited promotion opportunities. In the profession the phrase used to describe low level IT developers is "code monkeys". You throw specs at them, they have x days to produce working code. Its a never ending monotonous cycle.

    Yeah its reasonably well paid, yeah you get to sit in a comfortable chair probably in a reasonably decent air conditioned office, its hardly like going down the mine. But if someone with any ability whatsoever asked me the very, very last job they should consider doing, I'd say software development.
    The clever ones to be honest (like me) work for someone else, but then use the skills they have developed to work on their own start up projects on the side. By doing it this way, the added advantage is that you are constantly learning new skills in the process, which is transferable.

    Programming is an extremely useful and powerful skill to have, if you use it properly.

    Right now for example, if I have an idea, instead of dropping down 20k on a team of developers, I can just pick up my laptop, code it in a fraction of the time. Because I have full control of my code as well, this means that I know the strengths and weakenesses of the product technically. If you outsource, which is what non techies do - very often a freelancer will give you code that is buggy, despite it working at that moment of time. As a non techie you won't understand why until later on when the bug presents itself by wanting to modify it in x way. Good code should easily be modifiable.

    When networking, because I am an IT professional, it is very easy for me to befriend other IT professionals - which helps with any future potential business.
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    (Original post by Sigma44)
    Just a few things...

    -What you find difficult might be very east for the vast majority. Did everyone in your course get 2.2 or lower, if not...then the difficulty of your course is no excuse.
    -A uni degree (especially comp. sci.) does help a lot, but with so many graduates these days, a degree alone obviously isn't enough to distinguish yourself. You need work experience, extracurricular activities, etc. So no, your school didn't lie.
    -How many jobs did you apply each year since you're 16? Whatever your answer is, there's always someone out there who applied more than you. There's always someone your age who found jobs during the recession. Again, no excuse.

    There are tons of people with the same problems you have, and there are loads who overcame then...so it's not excuse. However, I do feel for you though, it's insane that they're trying to put you in that internet application course...waste of your time and taxpayer's money. I mean, who the hell doesn't know how to use the internet at our age....

    Anyways, there's no point being negative on anything other than yourself, just concentrate on improving and being your best self. Good luck
    A recruitment advisor at my uni said any ECs done in school are not relevant when applying to grad roles.
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    (Original post by Llamageddon)
    People without jobs don't deserve jobs. It's hardly difficult to get work. I managed it as a spotty 13 year old with only sats to go by through just by turning up at the shop.
    You've just contradicted yourself.
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    If the guy is referring to extracurriculars before uni, then he's right because it's too long ago. It's not true for uni though, because it shows you're not just another cookie cutter graduate + if employers can choose (which they can), they'll prefer interesting and competent individuals over just competent individuals. Every little bit counts in making yourself stand out.
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    (Original post by Midlander)
    So really we are coming to the conclusion that a university education is becoming less and less important to getting a better living. Which is the main reason why people choose to go. Who do we have to thank for this?
    The problem with university education is that it is theoretical.

    I can speak for computer science, not others, but when you do the degree it does not encourage business acumen. It is academic - haskell and **** has no relevance to most jobs in the world of work. I remember at points during my degree where I was thinking to myself, "why am I learning this stuff?" because it was so abstract. Concepts such as the turing machine etc that have no relevance to the world of work.

    It was only until I helped establish a start up, I learnt about the problems small businesses face when trying to start up and compete with the bigger boys.

    That in turn changes your perspective on things, because you start to take more into account the end user, trying to isolate what is needed and how that can be implemented using technology. Time is money, and I guess why employers value industrial experience, is because that is what it teaches you. From a technical stand point, someone who works in industry is more likely to use APIs as an example. CS as it is academic encourages you to build everything from scratch which slows down the dev process.
 
 
 
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