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    (Original post by aliyah08)
    Hijab, although Islamic, was seen as part of a wider cultural identity. To preserve culture (against imperialist forces) many women began to adopt the hijab. See books by Fatima Mernissi or Leila Ahmad.

    And who said anything about discrimination against women? Your assumption that women don't have a choice is an example of patriarchy in itself.
    I would be referring to states like Saudi Arabia where women must have male guardians and have permission from them to travel. If the Qu'ran and Hadiths are to be believed then women are treated almost as male property. Look at what is considered as adultery for a woman and what the punishment is, then contrast it for a man.

    Can a woman claim that her husband is possessed if he doesn't want to sleep with her?


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    (Original post by Midlander)
    You aren't forced in the UK because it is not a Muslim nation. What a waste of time this debate is.


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    I hate to break it to you but, just because its the UK doesn't make a difference. I've been to Pakistan, and again i'm not forced to wear a scarf there...but again I prefer it because I've had it on all the time. In Pakistan some women don't even wear their scarfs but what would you know, because my guess is you haven't been to other countries wear majority are Muslims but all you've seen is countries like Saudi, Iraq and Syria in the news or other media and judge from that perspective that all Muslims are forced into wearing a hijab. Mate it doesn't work like that so technically this debate wasn't a waste time, its actually you.
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    (Original post by Midlander)
    I would be referring to states like Saudi Arabia where women must have male guardians and have permission from them to travel. If the Qu'ran and Hadiths are to be believed then women are treated almost as male property. Look at what is considered as adultery for a woman and what the punishment is, then contrast it for a man.

    Can a woman claim that her husband is possessed if he doesn't want to sleep with her?


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    I think you may be a little confused as to what Saudi practice, and what Islam teaches. But, I don't waste my time trying to explain things to people who don't want to understand.
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    (Original post by aliyah08)
    I think you may be a little confused as to what Saudi practice, and what Islam teaches. But, I don't waste my time trying to explain things to people who don't want to understand.
    Islam teaches that men are born superior to women.


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    (Original post by Midlander)
    Islam teaches that men are born superior to women.


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    Thank you for that, Mufti Midlander.
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    (Original post by aliyah08)
    Thank you for that, Mufti Midlander.
    I'm sorry are the quotes provided by others here incorrect?


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    this thread end with that the hijab is obligatory on Muslim women in order to maintain modesty. Anybody who denys this is either not religious or is influenced too much by western culture and their nudeness.

    There are many different versions of Islam (but only one is true) in aliyah08s westernised diluted Islam- hijab doesn't seem to be obligatory, in true salafi Islam brothers and sisters hijab is obligatory - it is not restriction, hijab is a privilege for Muslim women.

    http://islamqa.info/en/47569

    "Praise be to Allaah. Hijab is obligatory for all Muslim women who have reached the age of puberty.

    Islamic backing from an extremely popular and and knowledgeable Islamic source.
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    (Original post by Midlander)
    Islam teaches that men are born superior to women.


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    I posted it before and I'll posted it again.

    In Islam men and women not equal in the western sense. They are equal in the spiritual sense. Men and women have different bodies and have been assigned different duties in relation to their bodies. Men do not have more rights than women (as some orientalists have misinterpreted as) they simply have more duties than a woman which Is a good thing, as these extra duties would be a burden on women or not fit for their role in Islam I.e men having the ultimate authority in in politics as caliph and religion as imams. Women's duties rely on the domestic sphere -maintaining children, family, serving her husband, with all this burden there's no need for her to take on extra duties/burden outside the domestic sphere, such as being a caliph, or imam or working at factory requiring extensive manual labour (that can only really be done by men)

    "Ibn Katheer (very popular and knowledgeable scholar may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

    “ALLAAH says ‘Men are the protectors and maintainers of women’ meaning that the man is in charge of the woman, i.e., he is the leader and head of the household, the one who disciplines her if she goes astray.

    ‘because Allaah has made one of them to excel the other’ i.e., because men are superior to women and are better than women. Hence Prophethood was given only to men, as was the position of khaleefah, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, ‘No people shall ever prosper who appoint a woman as their ruler.’ This was narrated by al-Bukhaari from the hadeeth of ‘Abd al-Rahmaan ibn Abi Bakrah from his father. The same applies to the position of qaadi (judge), etc."


    http://islamqa.info/en/1105

    Islamic source
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    (Original post by string56)
    I posted it before and I'll posted it again.

    In Islam men and women not equal in the western sense. They are equal in the spiritual sense. Men and women have different bodies and have been assigned different duties in relation to their bodies. Men do not have more rights than women (as some orientalists have misinterpreted as) they simply have more duties than a woman which Is a good thing, as these extra duties would be a burden on women or not fit for their role in Islam I.e men having the ultimate authority in in politics as caliph and religion as imams. Women's duties rely on the domestic sphere -maintaining children, family, serving her husband, with all this burden there's no need for her to take on extra duties/burden outside the domestic sphere, such as being a caliph, or imam or working at factory requiring extensive manual labour (that can only really be done by men)

    "Ibn Katheer (very popular and knowledgeable scholar may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

    “ALLAAH says ‘Men are the protectors and maintainers of women’ meaning that the man is in charge of the woman, i.e., he is the leader and head of the household, the one who disciplines her if she goes astray.

    ‘because Allaah has made one of them to excel the other’ i.e., because men are superior to women and are better than women. Hence Prophethood was given only to men, as was the position of khaleefah, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, ‘No people shall ever prosper who appoint a woman as their ruler.’ This was narrated by al-Bukhaari from the hadeeth of ‘Abd al-Rahmaan ibn Abi Bakrah from his father. The same applies to the position of qaadi (judge), etc."


    http://islamqa.info/en/1105

    Islamic source
    Thank you so much for proving my point.


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    (Original post by Midlander)
    Thank you so much for proving my point.


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    Your point being....
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    (Original post by string56)
    Your point being....
    That women are 2nd class citizens in Islam.


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    Becomes feminists are ****ing retards. Don't you try and bring logic into this.
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    Feminism and the Islamic religion is a subject that has always piqued my interest, I must say. Particularly because feminism is an ideology, that having originated from a western culture, had grouses with religion which is Christianity.
    Having read through the thread @aliyah08,it's quite obvious you read "around the issue" as you put it. My main disagreement with you and the writers you be quoted is that they ( Fatima bernissi and ahmad) are not experts in Islamic theology, rather, I would call them activist.
    Engaging Islam's scriptural texts I.e the Quran and the hadith would be a better way to approach issues of equality and women's right in Islam.
    The main thrust of their ( Islamic feminist) argument has always been that it is the male interpretation of islam's scriptural text that brought "restrictions" (for want of a better word) of Muslim women's rights.
    But how do anyone, a female Muslim jurist Inclusive, interpret clear verses of the Quran making the male the more equal of the sexes.
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    Muslim women covers hair: "OMG she's oppressed and forced to wear the hijab."
    Christian Nun covers hair: "WOW she's amazing, and chooses to cover her hair."


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    (Original post by peachgorl)
    muslim girls definitely have a choice in wearing hijab
    it's sexist to force them to wear hijab (like you said, saudi arabia does to their women)
    So not all Muslim girls have a choice (don't forget Iran and Aceh Indonesia, plus other countries and regions where although it is not legally enforced, is a cultural requirement).

    but i think if it was the woman's choice it's definitely not something feminists should invade into and poke their nose into because its rather something religous and done by the woman wearing hijab - because she herself decides to do so, as a response to god and her religion, although it's related to modesty and not being looked at by men its a much more powerful connection to god rather than man, so it's definitely not sexist in my opinion. I am also muslim but i don't wear hijab but i really think people misunderstand the hijab as something women are forced to do by their husbands and although for some people that is the case, the hijab itself doesn't symbolise that.
    Muslim women who wear the hijab because they think it is an obligatory practice, commanded by Allah, are not wearing it through choice, by definition.
    Those who don't wear it obviously don't think it is obligatory.
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    (Original post by PotNoodles)
    Muslim women covers hair: "OMG she's oppressed and forced to wear the hijab."
    Christian Nun covers hair: "WOW she's amazing, and chooses to cover her hair."


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    Who says nuns are "amazing" because they wear a veil? No one, that's who.
    And the nun's habit is mainly ceremonial. Much of the time they wear ordinary clothes. And most importantly - the habit is a uniform worn by people who have chosen to follow a specific career, so it is a false analogy to begin with.

    Are you telling me that women in Saudi Arabia, Iran, Aceh, and many conservative regions of Pakistan, Iraq, Afghanistan and the ME aren't forced to wear it?
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    Whether feminists take the hijab to task or not, sisters will continue to choose to and if necessary be forced to wear it as the honour and dignity of Islam hasn't been surpassed by any other civlilisation since the dawn of time. As as people start to see the light and see through the jewish imposed shopping mall culture and Hollywood distorted morality then people will start flocking to the teachings of the prophet (swt) in droves.
 
 
 
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