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StormXibalba
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#181
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#181
(Original post by macromicro)
This has nothing to do with what I posted about the OP. She is female. Do not use strawman arguments.
I expected you to evade my point anyway.

Are you really saying only men are smart enough to consent to sex when drunk, women aren't able to do the same? ridiculous. If you're argument is that once someones intoxicated to a certain degree they can't consent, the same would have to be true for men.
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laylarose
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#182
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#182
(Original post by LutherVan)
I suggest you spend sometime to read UK laws that is great for humanity.

If a woman has sex with a man drunk out of his mind, IT IS NOT RAPE under UK laws.

Why should it be different for females?
It's a stupid law. I feel it's pretty sexist. Because rape counts as penetrative sex and women cannot penetrate men, it's considered sexual harassment, I believe. I hope that in the future they'll hold female-male rape in the same light male-female rape is :sadnod:
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greeneyedgirl
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#183
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#183
(Original post by LutherVan)
I suggest you spend sometime to read UK laws that is great for humanity.

If a woman has sex with a man drunk out of his mind, IT IS NOT RAPE under UK laws.

Why should it be different for females?
Okay, technically it's sexual assault but iirc they are trying to change the law to make it less phallocentric. And this doesn't take away from the consent issue - if a woman has sex with a man who is too drunk to consent then it's sexual assault. The fact of whether it's rape or sexual assault does not impact on the consent.
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macromicro
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#184
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#184
(Original post by StormXibalba)
I expected you to evade my point anyway.
Because it's irrelevant. I care about helping the OP and understanding the OP's situation who, I repeat, is female.
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laylarose
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#185
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#185
(Original post by Josb)
It depends on the level of drunkenness. You can still consent after a few drinks, but not if you're dead drunk.
Yeah, there's annoyingly blurred lines when it comes to what is considered to be 'drunk'. I suppose a drunken stupor would be considered intoxicated.


(Original post by jaw1990)
Drunken consent and severe intoxication are two different things.
One can be severely intoxicated by alcohol - or do my years thus far serve me wrong? From what OP has told us, I'd say she was quite drunk to the point of intoxication... but it's obviously conjecture.
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LutherVan
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#186
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#186
(Original post by greeneyedgirl)
Okay, technically it's sexual assault but iirc they are trying to change the law to make it less phallocentric. And this doesn't take away from the consent issue - if a woman has sex with a man who is too drunk to consent then it's sexual assault. The fact of whether it's rape or sexual assault does not impact on the consent.
Are you sure it is even considered sexual assualt when a woman has sex with a drunk man or it is regarded as his lucky day under the law?

I still disagree with you about consent.

If you cannot give consent, you did not struggle and are not passed out, how are we to know if it is rape except we have CCTV?

How do we know how drunk she was?

This assumed guilt is what was used to convict Ched Evans who was an innocent man.

It is a dangerous law that is sexist and not good for humanity.
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StormXibalba
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#187
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#187
(Original post by macromicro)
Because it's irrelevant. I care about helping the OP and understanding the OP's situation who, I repeat, is female.
Yes and people are saying if you're drunk you can't consent which is untrue. Men are considered to be able to consent when drunk, if its not the same for women then there would have to be a logical basis for that. There isn't one.

Rape is an act against the persons will. Stating this was a rape when the OP doesn't know what happened and you weren't there is insulting to the thousands of actual rape victims.

The only person who knows if this was a rape unfortunately is the the man she had sex with.

The idea that being unable to remember what happened due to being too drunk automatically = rape is a dangerous and inaccurate thing to say.
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BioStudentx
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#188
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#188
I'd usually say drunk consent is consent but I've been ****-faced throwing up drunk before and I can still remember a little. yes I think your drink was spiked and you was raped. Not sure if you can prove it though tbh?
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LutherVan
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#189
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#189
(Original post by StormXibalba)
Yes and people are saying if you're drunk you can't consent which is untrue. Men are considered to be able to consent when drunk, if its not the same for women then there would have to be a logical basis for that. There isn't one.

Rape is an act against the persons will. Stating this was a rape when the OP doesn't know what happened and you weren't there is insulting to the thousands of actual rape victims.

The only person who knows if this was a rape unfortunately is the the man she had sex with.

The idea that being unable to remember what happened due to being too drunk automatically = rape is a dangerous and inaccurate thing to say.
Very good points.
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billyfisher100
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#190
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#190
Get over it - you were drunk! If you get quite that wasted, you have to face the consequences. It is your personal fault for being so irresponsible.
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LutherVan
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#191
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#191
(Original post by billyfisher100)
Get over it - you were drunk! If you get quite that wasted, you have to face the consequences. It is your personal fault for being so irresponsible.
This is exactly what the law would tell a drunk man that has sex with a woman.
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billyfisher100
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#192
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#192
(Original post by LutherVan)
This is exactly what the law would tell a drunk man that has sex with a woman.
Precisely.
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StormXibalba
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#193
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#193
(Original post by LutherVan)
This is exactly what the law would tell a drunk man that has sex with a woman.
Well thats true i don't think anyone would honestly be able to say otherwise.
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macromicro
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#194
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#194
(Original post by StormXibalba)
Yes and people are saying if you're drunk you can't consent which is untrue. Men are considered to be able to consent when drunk, if its not the same for women then there would have to be a logical basis for that. There isn't one.
Again, this is irrelevant to my posts but I'll bite. People who are correct have said that you can give effective consent if you're drunk but not if you're too drunk. This unavoidable ambiguity - as well as all the baggage that comes with it, i.e. loss of memory, hazy interpretations, impaired judgement, etc. - is why rape cases are so extremely delicate and difficult and is also why the laws regarding them are becoming increasingly strict. The simple rule is to err on the side of caution always, and strict laws encourage this.

The statistics of sexual assault speak for themselves; it's very clear why women are prioritised for protection and hence why rape laws are phallocentric. To put it bluntly - men tend to sexually attack women since the latter are physically weaker and can be forced - you cannot force a man to have an erection nor can the average woman physically overwhelm the average man. It's pretty obvious why the law is as it is, though for some reason - whether it's mock-naive ignorance or actual stupidity - some people refuse to reason beyond "hurr durr man same as woman hurr durrrrrr".

Fairness doesn't mean identical laws and rights; it means proportional laws and rights based on relevant contrasting factors such as age and gender.
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Ezme39
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#195
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#195
Whether this is something you can go to the police for, I honestly couldn't say. However, do get support :-) this has been traumatic for you, and whatever the outcome in terms of rape, you need to find a way to be able to move past it OP xx
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caiitliin
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#196
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#196
(Original post by billyfisher100)
Get over it - you were drunk! If you get quite that wasted, you have to face the consequences. It is your personal fault for being so irresponsible.
I had doubts about the existence of complete and utter stupidity in this world. They are gone.

In fact, being very drunk + potentially spiked actually means that all bad things that could possibly happen should happen to you! Robbery, rape, getting your hair shaved off, assault, ha! You should have known that the moment you consume a legal amount of a legal drug, legally, you are now open to perfectly illegal offenses, and you have no right to pursue any legal action about it - or even complain and seek help! It's just how it works.
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billyfisher100
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#197
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#197
(Original post by caiitliin)
I had doubts about the existence of complete and utter stupidity in this world. They are gone.

In fact, being very drunk + potentially spiked actually means that all bad things that could possibly happen should happen to you! Robbery, rape, getting your hair shaved off, assault, ha! You should have known that the moment you consume a legal amount of a legal drug, legally, you are now open to perfectly illegal offenses, and you have no right to pursue any legal action about it - or even complain and seek help! It's just how it works.
I must be slightly more cynical than you, as I never had doubts about the existence of complete and utter stupidity in this world.

And, yet again, I'm right, as it has just been exhibited above in every way, shape and form.
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StormXibalba
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#198
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#198
(Original post by macromicro)
Again, this is irrelevant to my posts but I'll bite. People who are correct have said that you can gig effective consent if you're drunk but not if you're too drunk. This unavoidable ambiguity - as well as all the baggage that comes with it, i.e. loss of memory, hazy interpretations, impaired judgement, etc. - is why rape cases are so extremely delicate and difficult and is also why the laws regarding them are becoming increasingly strict. The simple rule is to err on the side of caution always, and strict laws encourage this.

The statistics of sexual assault speak for themselves; it's very clear why women are prioritised for protection and hence why rape laws are phallocentric. To put it bluntly - men tend to sexually attack women since the latter are physically weaker and can be forced - you cannot force a man to have an erection nor can the average woman physically overwhelm the average man. It's pretty obvious why the law is as it is, though for some reason - whether it's mock-naive ignorance or actual stupidity - some people refuse to reason beyond "hurr durr man same as woman hurr durrrrrr".

Fairness doesn't mean identical laws and rights; it means proportional laws and rights based on relevant contrasting factors such as age and gender.
We are talking specifically about CONSENT, if your idea is that a man can consent when he's drunk because he has a penis but a woman has a vagina and is unable to consent when drunk then we disagree.

Am i saying men can be raped by women? Well no not really ( i can think of a few limited scenarios but to be easy lets say that the answer is no). But what we're discussing is consent, which happens in the mind and is verbally or physically shown. Consent IS equal, if you state she was too drunk too consent to having sex, but would not state the same about a man in those circumstances then you're simply wrong.

Its pretty patronising by the way, this idea that women can't consent once they're intoxicated but men are able to consent no matter how drunk they are.
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LutherVan
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#199
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#199
(Original post by macromicro)
Again, this is irrelevant to my posts but I'll bite. People who are correct have said that you can give effective consent if you're drunk but not if you're too drunk. This unavoidable ambiguity - as well as all the baggage that comes with it, i.e. loss of memory, hazy interpretations, impaired judgement, etc. - is why rape cases are so extremely delicate and difficult and is also why the laws regarding them are becoming increasingly strict. The simple rule is to err on the side of caution always, and strict laws encourage this.

The statistics of sexual assault speak for themselves; it's very clear why women are prioritised for protection and hence why rape laws are phallocentric. To put it bluntly - men tend to sexually attack women since the latter are physically weaker and can be forced - you cannot force a man to have an erection nor can the average woman physically overwhelm the average man. It's pretty obvious why the law is as it is, though for some reason - whether it's mock-naive ignorance or actual stupidity - some people refuse to reason beyond "hurr durr man same as woman hurr durrrrrr".

Fairness doesn't mean identical laws and rights; it means proportional laws and rights based on relevant contrasting factors such as age and gender.
So what is fair and proportional about a double standard law which provides different prescription in exactly the same scenario only with the genders switched?
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LutherVan
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#200
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#200
(Original post by caiitliin)
I had doubts about the existence of complete and utter stupidity in this world. They are gone.

In fact, being very drunk + potentially spiked actually means that all bad things that could possibly happen should happen to you! Robbery, rape, getting your hair shaved off, assault, ha! You should have known that the moment you consume a legal amount of a legal drug, legally, you are now open to perfectly illegal offenses, and you have no right to pursue any legal action about it - or even complain and seek help! It's just how it works.
You are completely right.

This is EXACTLY how it works for drunk men.
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