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    (Original post by Religion)
    Again I did not have to add, subtract, multiply, divide or do any of the things you done. My example was very clear.
    Irrelevant, it's still the same theory. You have found numbers and arbitrarily concluded they are a ratio in one case, and a raw number in another, just as the author of the Moby **** miracles has arbitrarily added.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    If you're not claiming it's a scientific miracle then what are you saying? This whole thing started because you claimed the Qur'an contained things about science that weren't known before, like the barrier thing.

    Yes, there would. If the Quran contained accurate science that was previously unknown, it could have been tested by early scientists and determined to be true, thus giving weight to the claim that the Quran is divinely inspired.
    I claimed that the Quran has science.

    If these scientist determined everything to be true and everyone became a Muslim, who is being tested?
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Irrelevant, it's still the same theory. You have found numbers and arbitrarily concluded they are a ratio in one case, and a raw number in another, just as the author of the Moby **** miracles has arbitrarily added.
    13:32 is a perfect land to water ratio. Even more perfect than 71:28.

    And they are both ratios. 1 chromosome from each parent. 23:23
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    (Original post by Religion)
    I claimed that the Quran has science.
    And yet not a single piece of precise, previously unknown science has been provided. Even muslim apologists are moving away from this.

    Hamza Tzortiz has said that the "scientific miracles" is an intellectual embarrassment for muslims.

    If these scientist determined everything to be true and everyone became a Muslim, who is being tested?
    This is hypothetical of course given that scientists have determined no such thing.

    I don't understand your line of reasoning. If the "science" is enough to convince muslims, what would be the problem with it convincing everyone? Even people who are already muslims are being tested, isn't the entire purpose of life meant to be an exam?
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    (Original post by Religion)
    13:32 is a perfect land to water ratio. Even more perfect than 71:28.

    And they are both ratios. 1 chromosome from each parent. 23:23
    Again, irrelevant. You have randomly decided it's a ratio, which it doesn't allude to in the text.

    And the second number is not a ratio, that's ridiculous twisting. As I said, if the Qur'an didn't refer to land water ratio or chromosomes then it isn't speaking about those things, simple.

    It may convince you, but it doesn't fool us.
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    (Original post by hayderm)
    Each person will lead their path, hopefully we all find our place.
    Don't believe in the fairy tales brah. Think about it. Most Muslims are indoctrinated at a very young age, so how can they know any better? Islam is a very dogmatic religion therefore there will be lots of people telling you to keep believing in these fictitious stories.

    I respect you greatly for contemplating whether or not to leave. I hope logic prevails and you rid yourself of this ideology that's oppressed women's rights (continues to do so) and has caused millions of death.

    P.S: IF you leave make sure you don't follow any other religion. They're all the same.
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    (Original post by Ghaniza)
    I think the main problem you're having is not researching and self educating yourself on all those subjects you doubt, without knowing the historical, contextual influences you'll not understand why things were like this.

    Also be doubtful of hadiths because it was written at a male dominant period, by men, so you must understand that first. They were humans in a system of patriarchy.
    Secondly the message of Allah has been brought to every nation and brought to them according to their society, which shows that Islam is an evolving religion, and many things can bot be applied today because of the society.
    For eg The bible is the book of God too, manipulated and changed now etc for sure but the things written in the bible couldn't be applied to the time of the prophet because the society was different, even though prophet Jesus gave the same message.
    The same way we can't apply certain things today.

    Most importantly slavery of all types was already developed and established wayyyy before the time of our prophet.

    Evolution? Lol muslims believe in all that too, there is scientific evidence in the quran on human embryonic development, which they recently just discovered and it had already been found in the qu'ran. So much more, there's nothing wrong with discoveries in science,
    As Muslims we have been socialized to think science is different when it's not any different, we need both science and religion.
    "No religion without science and no science without religion", something Einstein said, Islam is a logical religion.
    They could discover more and more about the universe and it would't make a difference because it as all been created by God, in fact we should be in amazement at it.

    Religion doesn't reject science, science is not the evil against religion, that's a myth, there are scientists who converted to Islam because the more they learnt about the universe the more he knew there has to be a creator.

    The problem with Muslims these days is we follow the practical sides to islam more for eg namaz, etc etc which is highly important but we forget the spirituality aspect which is building a relationship with Allah, faith, the most important.

    Muslims focus so much on hell etc when Allah is all forgiving, we say things like don't do this you''ll burn in hell when we forget how God loves us 70x more than our own mothers.
    Our Prophet pbuh said there will come a time where holding onto your religion will be like holding onto hot coal.

    Scientific discoveries are good, not bad, we have been given a brain that allows us to explore and to develop our thinking by the person who created us, remember that if you build a robot it can never achieve more knowledge that you have allowed it to, so the same with our creator, we may develop our minds etc but it's only because we have been created in that way.

    I am glad my father is an intellectual individual who educates himself and me on religion in terms of history, context and most important spirituality, self educate yourself on topics you're interested in. It's important.

    It can be a faze, it's only human to think that way, i was never forced or told much about how to practice Islam growing up, my parents allowed us to discover for ourselves, we asked questions and we self educated. The more forced someone is into something or brought up in, the less attached they may be to it.
    Good luck
    Couldn't have said it better myself! I was brought up very similarly to you, never forced, but taught in a way that increased my curiosity, knowledge and faith. Completely agree with everything you said here
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    (Original post by jf1994)
    Why don't you post your brainwashing attempts right here so we can all see them?
    brainwashing?

    good joke bro.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Again, irrelevant. You have randomly decided it's a ratio, which it doesn't allude to in the text.

    And the second number is not a ratio, that's ridiculous twisting. As I said, if the Qur'an didn't refer to land water ratio or chromosomes then it isn't speaking about those things, simple.

    It may convince you, but it doesn't fool us.
    If the Quran did provide these miracles you are looking for, I would assume you would believe in God that you wouldn't have believed in without the miracles. If everyone thought the same way you did, what's the point of religion?
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    Evolution is still very much a theory i believe.
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    (Original post by Religion)
    If the Quran did provide these miracles you are looking for, I would assume you would believe in God that you wouldn't have believed in without the miracles. If everyone thought the same way you did, what's the point of religion?
    Yes I would be convinced by Islam, but the miracles aren't there so I'm not.

    If Islam is the true religion then Allah wants everyone to believe in it, no? Are you saying that Allah thinks Islam is pointless once all 7 billion people believe in it?
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    (Original post by Synchyst)
    Evolution is still very much a theory i believe.
    In science, something only becomes a theory when it is backed up by tonnes of evidence, it has a different meaning to the everyday word "theory".
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    Either way, Enjoy life.

    as a Muslim, I'm not gonna even bother preaching or anything, just in hope you find happiness and a good life in general in this world.

    it's all peace and love.
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    (Original post by missfats)
    Either way, Enjoy life.

    as a Muslim, I'm not gonna even bother preaching or anything, just in hope you find happiness and a good life in general in this world.

    it's all peace and love.
    Posted from TSR Mobile
    well said, i was getting annoyed after i read the first 2 pages with the amount of ignorance on both sides, your comment has brought me peace
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    (Original post by halal kebab5)
    well said, i was getting annoyed after i read the first 2 pages with the amount of ignorance on both sides, your comment has brought me peace
    Honest

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    (Original post by missfats)
    Either way, Enjoy life.

    as a Muslim, I'm not gonna even bother preaching or anything, just in hope you find happiness and a good life in general in this world.

    it's all peace and love.
    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Wow, I actually agree with something you've said! I never thought I'd see the day...
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    OP if you think leaving islam is better for you then that's your decision and you should do it. being miserable isnt what you want. i left islam for my own personal reasons so i sympathize with you. if youre unsure then talking to scholars or imams might help!
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    (Original post by missfats)
    Either way, Enjoy life.

    as a Muslim, I'm not gonna even bother preaching or anything, just in hope you find happiness and a good life in general in this world.

    it's all peace and love.
    Posted from TSR Mobile
    (Original post by halal kebab5)
    well said, i was getting annoyed after i read the first 2 pages with the amount of ignorance on both sides, your comment has brought me peace
    If it makes you feel any better ive finished my morning to night Islamic reading marathon and i would like to say i feel more convinced than ever that Islam is true, thank you for being a good role model

    (Original post by DannyDualscar)
    OP if you think leaving islam is better for you then that's your decision and you should do it. being miserable isnt what you want. i left islam for my own personal reasons so i sympathize with you. if youre unsure then talking to scholars or imams might help!
    Thanks for the advice looking back and spending alot of time reading more i feel convinced again, i hope whatever path you choose it brings you fulfillment
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    (Original post by hayderm)
    If it makes you feel any better ive finished my morning to night Islamic reading marathon and i would like to say i feel more convinced than ever that Islam is true, thank you for being a good role model



    Thanks for the advice looking back and spending alot of time reading more i feel convinced again, i hope whatever path you choose it brings you fulfillment


    Islam is a way of life, if you don't think it fits with your moral code then do what's best for you.

    There is no drilling sense into a person, one must realise sense by themselves whether it be in Islam or not, hence I think all these religious debates will just be endless drivel which will not convince one truly.

    Peace

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    Convert to Judaism.
 
 
 
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