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    (Original post by Josb)
    This is your interpretation. As it has been proven on this thread, nowhere in the Koran it is written that you should cover your hair. Most female Muslims didn't cover their hair before the 80s, they weren't less Muslim.

    Head covering is a prescription of some radical Muslim sects. I think that tolerating their views is a regression.



    Living in society implies making some concessions to your lifestyle. I don't dress like I want when I go to work, I don't see why Muslims cannot do the same.

    It's not against Islam, I would think the same of Jews that keep their kippa, or atheists that wear a cap.
    In Chapter 33 known as al-Ahzab, verse 59, Allah gives the following command to Prophet Muhammad:
    يَا أَيُّهَا النَّبِيُّ, قُلْ لأَزْوَاجِكَ وَ بَنَاتِكَ وَ نِسآءِ الْمُؤْمِنِيْنَ: يُدْنِيْنَ عَلَيْهِنَّ مِنْ جَلاَبِيْبِهِنَّ ...
    “O Prophet! Say toyour wives, your daughters, and the women of the believers that: they should let down upon themselves their jalabib.” (this is a loose garment)
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    (Original post by mariam687)
    In Chapter 33 known as al-Ahzab, verse 59, Allah gives the following command to Prophet Muhammad:
    يَا أَيُّهَا النَّبِيُّ, قُلْ لأَزْوَاجِكَ وَ بَنَاتِكَ وَ نِسآءِ الْمُؤْمِنِيْنَ: يُدْنِيْنَ عَلَيْهِنَّ مِنْ جَلاَبِيْبِهِنَّ ...
    “O Prophet! Say toyour wives, your daughters, and the women of the believers that: they should let down upon themselves their jalabib.” (this is a loose garment)
    Sorry, but it doesn't say "on their head/hair".

    If you had read the posts above, you would found that I posted the extracts of 29 accepted translations of the Koran. None of these translations explicitly refers to the head or hair, the focus is always on the breasts/bosom. Only eight translations refers to "head-coverings", which may imply that their head is already covered, but it is still not said that it should be a requirement to cover their head. 21 translations don't mention the head at all.
    islamawakened.com/quran/24/31/


    I'm putting them there for you:
    Spoiler:
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    Muhammed Assad:
    And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and to be mindful of their chastity, and not to display their charms [in public] beyond what may [decently] be apparent thereof; hence, let them draw their head-coverings over their bosoms.

    M. M. Pickthall:
    And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and be modest, and to display of their adornment only that which is apparent, and to draw their veils over their bosoms

    Shakir:
    And say to the believing women that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts and do not display their ornaments except what appears thereof, and let them wear their head-coverings over their bosoms

    Yusuf Ali (Saudi Rev. 1985):
    And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty

    Yusuf Ali (Orig. 1938)
    And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty

    Dr. Laleh Bakhtiar
    And say to the females, ones who believe to lower their (f) sight and keep their (f) private parts safe and show not their (f) adornment but what is manifest of it. And let them (f) draw their head coverings over their (f) bosoms

    Wahiduddin Khan
    Say to believing women that they should lower their gaze and remain chaste and not to reveal their adornmentssave what is normally apparent thereof, and they should fold their shawls over their bosoms.

    T.B.Irving
    Tell believing women to avert their glances and guard their private parts, and not to display their charms except what [normally] appears of them. They should fold their shawls over their bosoms

    [The Monotheist Group] (2011 Edition)
    And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and keep covered their private parts, and that they should not show-off their beauty except what is apparent, and let them cast their shawls over their cleavage.

    Abdel Haleem
    And tell believing women that they should lower their glances, guard their private parts, and not display their charms beyond what [it is acceptable] to reveal; they should let their headscarves fall to cover their necklines

    Abdul Majid Daryabadi
    And say thou unto the believing women that they shall lower their sights and guard their private parts and shall not disclose their adornment except that which appeareth thereof; and they shall draw their scarves over their bosoms

    Ahmed Ali
    Tell the believing women to lower their eyes, guard their private parts, and not display their charms except what is apparent outwardly, and cover their bosoms with their veils

    Aisha Bewley
    Say to the mumin women that they should lower their eyes and guard their private parts and not display their adornments — except for what normally shows — and draw their head-coverings across their breasts.

    Ali Ünal
    And tell the believing women that they (also) should restrain their gaze (from looking at the men whom it is lawful for them to marry, and from others’ private parts), and guard their private parts, and that they should not display their charms except that which is revealed of itself; and let them draw their veils over their bosoms

    Ali Quli Qara'i
    And tell the faithful women to cast down their looks and to guard their private parts, and not to display their charms, except for what is outward, and let them draw their scarfs over their bosoms

    Hamid S. Aziz
    And say to the believing women that they cast down their looks and guard their modesty, and display not their ornaments, except those which are obvious from the outside; and let them pull their veils over their bosoms

    Muhammad Mahmoud Ghali
    And say to the female believers to cast down their be holdings, and preserve their private parts, and not display their adornment except such as is outward, and let them fix (Literally: strike) closely their veils over their bosoms

    Muhammad Sarwar
    Tell the believing woman to cast down their eyes, guard their chastity, and not to show off their beauty except what is permitted by the law. Let them cover their breasts with their veils.

    Muhammad Taqi Usmani
    And tell the believing women that they must lower their gazes and guard their private parts, and must not expose their adornment, except that which appears thereof, and must wrap their bosoms with their shawls

    Shabbir Ahmed
    And tell the believing women to lower their gaze, and guard their modesty. That they should not display their beauty and ornament beyond what is decently and spontaneously apparent in daily lives. Hence, let them cover their bosoms with their sash (Dupatta).

    Syed Vickar Ahamed
    And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty (and looks) and protect themselves and privacy (from illicit sex): And that they should not display their beauty and jewels except what (may usually) appear; That they should draw cover over their bodies and bosoms

    Umm Muhammad (Sahih International)
    And tell the believing women to reduce [some] of their vision and guard their private parts and not expose their adornment except that which [necessarily] appears thereof and to wrap [a portion of] their headcovers over their chests

    Farook Malik
    Likewise enjoin the believing women to lower their gaze and guard their modesty; not to display their beauty and ornaments except what normally appears thereof; let them draw their veils over their bosoms

    Dr. Munir Munshey
    Ask the believing women to lower their gaze, guard their chastity, and not leave bare their beauty and charm, except that which becomes apparent by itself. Ask them to pull their veil-cloths down across their bosom

    Dr. Mohammad Tahir-ul-Qadri
    And direct the believing women that they (too) must keep their eyes lowered and guard their chastity, and must not show off their adornments and beautification except that (part of it) which becomes visible itself. And they must keep their veils (and head-coverings) drawn over their chests (too)

    Dr. Kamal Omar
    And advise the Believing females that they restrain their eyes and guard their private sexual parts; and (that) they do not make evident their beauty except what became apparent thereof, and that they extend their head-coverings (also) over their bosoms (and hide the prominence).

    Talal A. Itani (new translation)
    And tell the believing women to restrain their looks, and to guard their privates, and not display their beauty except what is apparent thereof, and to draw their coverings over their breasts

    Bilal Muhammad (2013 Edition)
    And say to the believing women, that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty, that they should not display their ornaments, except what seems appropriate to her, that they should draw their garments over their bosoms

    Maududi
    O Prophet, enjoin the Believing women to restrain their gaze and guard their private parts. and not to display their adornment except that which is displayed of itself, and to draw their veils over their bosoms

    [The Monotheist Group] (2013 Edition)
    And tell the believing females to lower their gaze and keep covered their private parts, and that they should not reveal their beauty except what is apparent, and let them put forth their shawls over their cleavage.


    So, claiming the headscarf is a religion garment is very dubious, since it is not an imperative in the Koran.
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    (Original post by Reformed)
    you are paraphrasing / innovating on what was originally written - and this is how edicts go from one thing to another - ie orders to cover womens chest go to orders to cover womens head, hair & chest, to orders to cover womens head hair chest feet face hands etc till eventually you have women walking around with a sack over them. By that stage it would be easier simply to keep them indoors if its so important to keep their body parts out of public view,

    you forget that after the quran islamic society has operated for over 1300 years and the hundreds of islamic leaders ( all men btw) have each had their inputs and re-interpretations added into the mix.

    im not against the hijab at all, im simply of the view that it is not ordained in the quran andso its not an islamic requirement. you also dont seem to relaise that the theres no specific islamic argument for a muslim to make to wear one. 'hijab' or scarf, veils, even bukhas were all worn for hundreds of years before the quran in arabic society - headscarves even were worn by the ancient romans. none were islamic , they were culturally what women wore day to day , for various reasons - ie it was the fashion


    im simply trying to explain to you what the verse actually said,the word used and their meaning, rather than simply regurgitating the justifcation to cover women up used by muslim males for the last few centuries
    But I told you our Prophet told us in many Hadith that women should dress this way, and that makes it an Islamic requirement. We are ordered by Allah in the Qur'an to follow the teachings of Prophet Muhammad (saw). And yes women from many other cultures dressed more modestly back then. It's not that it was 'the fashion', women were just more modest during those times. it's still 'the fashion' in many cultures today, with Western culture being an exception, in which modesty is now almost non-existent. Islam, of course, has preserved that modesty and it is from Allah.

    I have studied what the verse means, and a lot of people who try to disprove the obligation of the hijab use the analysis you gave me. But I follow the analysis of Islamic scholars, and of those whose Arabic is at a very high level

    At the end of the day it's up to each individual woman whether they wear the hijab or not. I believe it's one of the basic things a Muslim woman can do for her religion.
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    (Original post by Reformed)
    because again if you read a little more this question would have been answered for you. why is it tsrs muslims want to claim somthing so vehemently without ever doing the background reading?
    khimar refers to a cover, not a headdress. a table cloth is a khimar, as is a window curtain etc as has been used in classical arabic. it is only certain sects of islam that now take the meaning to be a' head cover' and they do this because nowhere in the quran is there an instruction to cover the head or hair. so they have to find a place to insert that idea.

    the word for head is 'ras' - this term or nothing like it is used in your quoted verse even once. only covering the chest is mentioned - therefore only this can be claimed as a religious instruction ( unless you intend to re-write the verse). not head or hair and of course not the need for a burkh or niqab either.




    nuns, like sheikhs, rabbis and cardinals dressed differntly to the population.
    most normal arab women and christians, romans, jews of the time etc , all wore a head scarf of some sort as it was the fashion of the era islam arose from - it was not islamic doctrine but culture which women of all faiths practiced. They wore it loosley on top of the head not for any covering means, and it in most cases did not cover the hair from sight at all .

    please see here a historic drawing of Khadjia ( mohammeds wife) taken from traditional description - showing a very loose headscarf not covering very much at all -



    i the same way british women of the 1940s used to wear them (and old women from that era still do ) , and indeed muslims women in the 2016 wear bright coloured hedsccraves. Its not an issue to wear something for fashion - but dont mix fashion with religious requirment.



    youve effectively answered your own question - showing the hijab is a modern development and innovation , making a political statement and was never a part of the orginal islamic doctrine.
    Out of curiosity do you speak/understand Arabic?
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    (Original post by Serine Soul)
    Hijab (headscarf) = fine
    Abaya (that long dress thing) = fine
    Niqab = wouldn't hire

    As an employer, I couldn't have my employee not showing their faces as they interact with others, especially if that involves customers. It looks intimidating and poses a huge safety risk.
    I agree, what's your company or what are you an employer of? if you don't mind me asking.
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    (Original post by samina_ay)
    I agree, what's your company or what are you an employer of? if you don't mind me asking.
    Ahh I'm not an employer

    Just speaking hypothetically
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    (Original post by Serine Soul)
    Ahh I'm not an employer

    Just speaking hypothetically
    Gahhh that was so stupid of me, lool
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    (Original post by yasminkattan)
    But I told you our Prophet told us in many Hadith that women should dress this way, and that makes it an Islamic requirement. We are ordered by Allah in the Qur'an to follow the teachings of Prophet Muhammad (saw).
    it is often questionable ( and debated) by muslims and also non muslims alike as to what mohammed actually said and who has the authority to speak on his behalf. the quran is accepted by the entire muslim world however as containing the commandments muslims should follow word for word. and indeed ther verse relating to womens clothing you all are talking about only specifies the covering of the chest and does not mention the head or the hair. this point cannot be disputed no matter what you believe mohammed said. if it were important and islamic to cover up all body parts - you have to ask yourself why the quran did not specifically say so in the verse about covering.

    (Original post by yasminkattan)
    And yes women from many other cultures dressed more modestly back then. It's not that it was 'the fashion', women were just more modest during those times. it's still 'the fashion' in many cultures today, with Western culture being an exception, in which modesty is now almost non-existent. Islam, of course, has preserved that modesty and it is from Allah.
    it was fashion in that it was the accepted norm of dress to wear cloaks and indeed some sort of headscarf - as i have pointed out this was not an islamic dictat - it was observed by pretty much all faiths of the time, and all of them wore it out of cultural habit, not to fully cover hair etc.. so in fact its a cultural practice ( of the 8th century ) and not an islamic requirement. i have shown how khadija mohammeds wife wore a loose scarf ( as was normal for women of the time) and it wasnt obscuring her hair at all


    (Original post by yasminkattan)
    I have studied what the verse means, and a lot of people who try to disprove the obligation of the hijab use the analysis you gave me. But I follow the analysis of Islamic scholars, and of those whose Arabic is at a very high level
    its not really analyisis, its simply reading what words the quran uses. again - if head and hair needed to be covered islamically, why werent they mentioned along with the chest? this is not rocket science- so it should not be beyond your scholars.

    (Original post by yasminkattan)

    At the end of the day it's up to each individual woman whether they wear the hijab or not. I believe it's one of the basic things a Muslim woman can do for her religion.
    indeed - in uk and most of west women are free to wear headscarves ( remember it used to be the fashion here too in the 1930s) - fashion is an acceptable reason to wear something - this doesnt make it a religious requirement though so you cant make that false justification , as the quran makes quite clear
 
 
 
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