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    What's your point?
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    (Original post by Josb)
    What's your point?
    What does that picture show...?

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    (Original post by HAnwar)
    This is so stupid honestly.
    The boys didn't shake their teachers hand for religious reasons. Get over it and move on.
    You are right they should have just gotten over their silly religion and shaken hands.

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    (Original post by Kieran1996)
    Petty by both sides imo.

    a) just shake hands and get on with it
    b) accept your hand hasn't been shaken and get on with it

    Honestly :banghead:

    Although... What if someone refused to shake hands purely because they didn't want to shake hands because of hygiene? (seeing as the OCD example was quickly dispelled).
    Would not agree. It is obvious the muslims were likely to be islamists and their descendatns may comit terrorists attacks. So better to prevent anything bad.
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    (Original post by slaven)
    Would not agree. It is obvious the muslims were likely to be islamists and their descendatns may comit terrorists attacks. So better to prevent anything bad.
    Erm...
    Many presumptions made there.
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    (Original post by Anna0987)
    You've clearly misunderstood the reason for not shaking their teacher's hand, it is not because women are regarded as "socially suspect", men and women unassociated with one another, save for in an immediate family capacity, I.e, mother, daughter, sister, brother, father, son, do not engage in skin on skin contact according to Islamic belief.

    Hope that clarifies :-)
    Ah, but the point is, why is contact with non-mahram females forbidden?
    Hope you can clarify ;-)
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    If they arent ready to integrate then they can apply for citzienship later. I cant see why the Swiss have to adapt to their values, when they didnt ask them to become citziens. If they arent ready to integrate then they arent ready to become Swiss citizens, dont understand the big deal. the problem is their and now that of the Swiss.
    They didnt have time to integrate. They havent adapted to the norms or values of the Swiss because their application was still in the process. They have a completely different code of conduct, how are they supposed to know the conduct of the Swiss when they've probably never met a Swiss either? Their application got suspended why?
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    (Original post by Kieran1996)
    Erm...
    Many presumptions made there.
    On the contrary. The children are radical and dont want to rejects its backward culture. So, the same ill he raise his decendants They are Islamists and the latest news says the Swiss are checking their files to see whether they lied during their asylium procees in order to be deported.
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    (Original post by Reader106)
    They didnt have time to integrate. They havent adapted to the norms or values of the Swiss because their application was still in the process. They have a completely different code of conduct, how are they supposed to know the conduct of the Swiss when they've probably never met a Swiss either? Their application got suspended why?
    If they havent had time to intergrate and the father arrived in 2001, then they arent ready to be considered as citizens. Its their problem not that of the Swiss.

    Why do they want to be citizens of a country whose culture and values they cant fit with? They can remain under a visa as they currently are, bit not citizenship. Privilege not a right.
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    (Original post by slaven)
    On the contrary. The children are radical and dont want to rejects its backward culture. So, the same ill he raise his decendants They are Islamists and the latest news says the Swiss are checking their files to see whether they lied during their asylium procees in order to be deported.
    Are you serious? If so can I have a link please
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    (Original post by QE2)
    Ah, but the point is, why is contact with non-mahram females forbidden?
    Hope you can clarify ;-)
    It can encourage lustful thoughts which can lead to greater sins of adultary or fornication. It is a code of conduct, just as wearing modest clothing and lowering ones gaze. They all share the same purpose.
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    (Original post by Reader106)
    They didnt have time to integrate. They havent adapted to the norms or values of the Swiss because their application was still in the process. They have a completely different code of conduct, how are they supposed to know the conduct of the Swiss when they've probably never met a Swiss either? Their application got suspended why?
    How does giving someone nationality change this? In order to become Swiss, they would have had the 'Permis C', which is sufficient for them to integrate into society.
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    (Original post by digistar_100)
    It can encourage lustful thoughts which can lead to greater sins of adultary or fornication. It is a code of conduct, just as wearing modest clothing and lowering ones gaze. They all share the same purpose.
    There is a serious problem if someone gets horny over shaking hands...

    Is it the act of shaking, or the intentions of shaking that makes it impermissible? for example, can you have a "virtual handshake" (i.e. without the hands actually touching)
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    (Original post by Kieran1996)
    Are you serious? If so can I have a link please
    It is in the opening post.
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    (Original post by slaven)
    It is in the opening post.
    Where on earth in the OP does the link describe them as being radicals and/or say the authorities are seeing if they lied on their application?
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    (Original post by Kieran1996)
    Where on earth in the OP does the link describe them as being radicals and/or say the authorities are seeing if they lied on their application?
    Are you a moron or somethin?

    The guy refused to shake hand because of his religion. It is radicalism and islamism. it does not belong to Europe.

    Britain Yes!
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    (Original post by slaven)
    Are you a moron or somethin?

    The guy refused to shake hand because of his religion. It is radicalism and islamism. it does not belong to Europe.

    Britain Yes!
    How on earth am I a moron for questioning you for plucking random words and connotations from an article? I did not say you were wrong, I just asked for proof.

    I did not say their beliefs were correct or wrong either. You stated stuff that is not from the article. If they were trying to radicalise others they would have forced their opinion on others but instead there merely told the school staff that they wouldn't personally shake hands.

    Islamism is forcing the views on others, please tell me how they did that? If you read the article the main issue is the the politicians are not happy with how the school's officials approached the problem.
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    (Original post by Kieran1996)
    How on earth am I a moron for questioning you for plucking random words and connotations from an article? I did not say you were wrong, I just asked for proof.

    I did not say their beliefs were correct or wrong either. You stated stuff that is not from the article. If they were trying to radicalise others they would have forced their opinion on others but instead there merely told the school staff that they wouldn't personally shake hands.

    Islamism is forcing the views on others, please tell me how they did that? If you read the article the main issue is the the politicians are not happy with how the school's officials approached the problem.
    "Brothers refused to shake officials’ female teachers’ hands because it violated their faith but politicians say school compromise went against Swiss culture"

    The pupils must shake hands with the teacher, there is not discussion about this. If you do not like this than go to Sweden or Saudi Arabia.

    Also, Britain Yes!
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    (Original post by The Epicurean)
    Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you hate Muslims. My main problem is that culture is very much like religion. People often merely follow their culture of their parents and much like religion, people are very easy to take offence. Should I avoid criticising a religion because it may offend people who follow that religion? Or should I behave in a certain way as dictated by a culture so as to not offend people who follow that culture?

    I still think it is difficult as not all Muslims in the UK necessarily choose to be born here. Many Muslims who do refuse to shake hands often happen to be Muslims who are born and raised here or even sometimes are British converts. So whilst in this case in OP it is a matter of citizenship, it often isn't, and the people refusing to shake hands are often British citizens born and raised here.

    That said, breaking social and cultural norms has consequences in pretty much every society, and considering there is already plenty of anti-Muslim bigotry and issues of integration, I wouldn't really recommend Muslims to break such societal and cultural norms.
    The thing is, I do know and agree that these people are british born british citizens, but they have free will to chose and live where they feel comfortable and where they feel they belong.

    Just because they have been born here, it doesn't mean they have to stay and force their way through.... Their parents were not born there, if their parents managed to move countries, they surely can if they don't want to show basic respect.

    What would you think if UK said they don't accept Muslims to country anymore, or why people get angry when debate regarding ban on burka/hijab comes up? Why can Iran force you to wear headscarf but you cannot force you to remove it?

    It's like you give muslims finger, they take your whole arm.
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    (Original post by slaven)
    "Brothers refused to shake officials’ female teachers’ hands because it violated their faith but politicians say school compromise went against Swiss culture"

    You seem to not have a brain if you do not interprete this as islamism. The pupils must shake hands with the teacher, there is not discussion about this. If you do not like this than go to Sweden or Saudi Arabia.

    Also, Britain Yes!
    Wow. Islamism: "to implement Islamic values in all spheres of life."

    They only want to implement this value on their own lives. They did not say the people there/the teachers/me/you had to do the same did they?

    Why should I go anywhere? Don't be ridiculous or rude in such a way.

    Also, why do you keep saying "Britain Yes!"???
 
 
 
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