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Sadiq Khan: There are too many "white men" on Transport for London Watch

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    (Original post by Tyreke)
    You've accused me of berating him. I didn't. I said he has a history of associating with extremists, which is true. You have made the link between this and me attempting to smear him?

    The comparison with Donald Trump is not flawed, as you say. Tommy Robinson associated with Anders Breivik, before Breivik conducted his malicious act. And yet Tommy Robinson was scolded by the media and many of the population for this, in fact it is still brought up today in interviews with him. For example,
    http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-d...defence-league
    Then why bring it up? What relevance does it has? You say he's associated, so what? If I argued against a neo-nazi at an event, i'd have associated with him. So what?


    Yes and it's ridiculous to criticize Robinson for speaking to someone before they carried out an attack.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Then why bring it up? What relevance does it has? You say he's associated, so what? If I argued against a neo-nazi at an event, i'd have associated with him. So what?


    Yes and it's ridiculous to criticize Robinson for speaking to someone before they carried out an attack.
    I don't know the manner in which his associations took place, and so rightly I shouldn't have made the comment without knowing this. Under these circumstances I realise it was wrong mention his association with these people. I'd like to thank you for debating with me as it has enlightened me, which is the purpose of me partaking in these discussions. I will reiterate however, my initial comment about his association with extremists was not an attempt to smear him as you seem to have suggested.
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    (Original post by Tyreke)
    My ancestors were subjects of racism in the early 20th Century through the use of the rule 'No Irish, No Dogs'.
    That's true. The Irish had been s.h.a.t on by the English, centuries of overt oppression, virtual enslavement and they came to the UK and saw "No Irish" signs

    But guess what ?

    When your ancestors first came to the UK and Liverpool they had had almost no experience with blacks. But after a very short time in the UK, Irish immigrants were rioting against blacks, especially when soldiers came back from WW1 and WW2 only to find no jobs and who did they blame ? Yup. Black people.

    So the Irish joined in the barring of blacks from labor unions and many jobs back then


    (Original post by Tyreke)
    You have failed to offer evidence to back up your claim that all companies in Liverpool are racist.
    We are way beyond proof. There have been books written on racial discrimination. But understand that no compamy or firm is going to say -



    That's not how it works. For example in Liverpool. You won't see black people working anywhere. Now that is either one of two things

    1) Black people dont want work are lazy and want to soak up benfits
    2) There is systemactic racism at work

    I believe it's #2. You must think it's #1. I also note from my own experience of having phoned up for jobs, then turning up only to be told the job was gone.....now he could have been telling me the truth, but I doubt it.

    I also notice the ease in the way whites I know who left uni got jobs, where as black people didn't. Even a white person who used to work in recruitment told me that they used to fight to try and get whites on their books, not particularly because they did not like black or Asian people.

    They just knew that it would be much harder getting a black person into work, than it would do a white person and they had targets to reach

    (Original post by Tyreke)
    It is quite evident from your post that you believe racism can not be directed towards white people.
    Although a person of colour in an authority position candiscriminate against a white person, this kind of thing rarely happens because,

    A) Such persons are still statistically rare relative to whites in authority.

    B) in virtually all cases, there are authorities above those people of colour who are white, and who would not stand for such actions.

    C) Even in cases where a black person sits atop a power structure (as with President Obama), he is not truly free to do anything to oppress or marginalize white people (even were he so inclined), given his own need to attract white support in order to win election or pass any of his policy agenda.

    There are no institutional structures in the U.K. in which people of colour exercise final and controlling authority: not in the school systems, labour market, justice system, housing markets, financial markets, or media. As such, the ability of black and brown folks to oppress white people simply does not exist.

    Racism is when you can deny people jobs, housing, health care, decent educations, or their physical freedom via the justice system, thereby wrecking their lives. And there are virtually no black folks in the UK who can do any of that. But there are white folks in positions to do those things, and who do them regularly

    (Original post by Tyreke)
    My sister numerous times has been called 'white slut' by members of a certain community in this country.
    Well if your negative experiences with blacks “prove” that blacks are bad people, then by definition, anyone who had had good experiences with black people would be able to say that all blacks are good people: an argument every bit as silly, but just as logical, given the original line of reasoning.

    I'm not justifying the name callng. But when all you have to fear from black people is being called names. Is that really anything to fear ?

    And you have a system to protect you in case you get called too many names. And if that black person DARES to try to get physical with you, you have a system to protect you and give you the benefit of the doubt. We all know that a black crime and black on white crime is punished differenly.

    I know black guys in Liverpool who have done petty crimes in a black area, they got smacked on the wrist, the minute they went to the white suburbs, they got 8 and 9 year jail sentences.
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    Just sayin...

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    (Original post by PrincePaul57993)

    I know black guys in Liverpool who have done petty crimes in a black area, they got smacked on the wrist, the minute they went to the white suburbs, they got 8 and 9 year jail sentences.
    I appreciate the effort you've put into your comment. I agree with much of it, but there's parts I'd like to offer my opinion on.

    The way they treat black people was disgusting, of course it was, I'm in no way gonna make excuses for that.

    I think we agree on a lot of points, the only point I disagreed with was the Liverpool one.

    'You must think it's #1' I'm not sure why you've made the assumption I believe it is number one?

    Is the issue you mention about whites who leave Uni getting jobs easier perhaps a mixture of both race and class? I know many white people who have struggled to get a job simply because they were working class and didn't have the benefit of a well connected family etc. I thnk this point perhaps extends to the point you make about Black people not being in positions of authority. Firstly, due to the low percentage of Black people in the UK you are less likely to see them in the highest positions, as opposed to White people.

    The bad experience my sister had was not from Black people, it was from another minority group.

    I know you are good people, I have only had a handful of black friends, I wish I knew more but I don't. Every black person I have come into contact with has been kind, entertaining and chilled out, something I love in people.

    To conclude, the main issue I had with your post was that you seemed to think that the majority of white people are racist and cannot be subject to racism. I genuinely hope you do not think this is true, because it really isn't, I don't know a single racist white person. Obviously some people are racist, and that's disgusting, but I really hope you realise most of us aren't. Like I mentioned in my other post to you, I admire your enthusiasm and beliefs, I'd rather have you as a friend than the majority of our generation who seem to be unthinking sheep
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    (Original post by PrincePaul57993)
    That's not how it works. For example in Liverpool. You won't see black people working anywhere. Now that is either one of two things

    1) Black people dont want work are lazy and want to soak up benfits
    2) There is systemactic racism at work
    3) Blacks make up 1.9% of the population of Liverpool.
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    (Original post by Tyreke)
    I don't know the manner in which his associations took place, and so rightly I shouldn't have made the comment without knowing this. Under these circumstances I realise it was wrong mention his association with these people. I'd like to thank you for debating with me as it has enlightened me, which is the purpose of me partaking in these discussions. I will reiterate however, my initial comment about his association with extremists was not an attempt to smear him as you seem to have suggested.
    Fair enough and I respect you for that.
    The reality is 'association' by itself is a nothing term. There are a few on the left who have indeed supported or at least sympathised with extremists. However Khan is certainly not one of them.
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    It has begun then.

    White-flight to another country, more like.

    Time to brush up on my second language skills.
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    (Original post by Tyreke)
    I appreciate the effort you've put into your comment. I agree with much of it, but there's parts I'd like to offer my opinion on.

    The way they treat black people was disgusting, of course it was, I'm in no way gonna make excuses for that.

    I think we agree on a lot of points, the only point I disagreed with was the Liverpool one.

    'You must think it's #1' I'm not sure why you've made the assumption I believe it is number one?

    Is the issue you mention about whites who leave Uni getting jobs easier perhaps a mixture of both race and class? I know many white people who have struggled to get a job simply because they were working class and didn't have the benefit of a well connected family etc. I thnk this point perhaps extends to the point you make about Black people not being in positions of authority. Firstly, due to the low percentage of Black people in the UK you are less likely to see them in the highest positions, as opposed to White people.

    The bad experience my sister had was not from Black people, it was from another minority group.

    I know you are good people, I have only had a handful of black friends, I wish I knew more but I don't. Every black person I have come into contact with has been kind, entertaining and chilled out, something I love in people.

    To conclude, the main issue I had with your post was that you seemed to think that the majority of white people are racist and cannot be subject to racism. I genuinely hope you do not think this is true, because it really isn't, I don't know a single racist white person. Obviously some people are racist, and that's disgusting, but I really hope you realise most of us aren't. Like I mentioned in my other post to you, I admire your enthusiasm and beliefs, I'd rather have you as a friend than the majority of our generation who seem to be unthinking sheep
    But when I say whites are racist. I don't say this meaning that you or white people are members of the KKK or any far right group. I have racism in me.

    But I admit it.

    But I say it, in the same way that I'd say that car is blue. I'd say it, meaning that you see things that favour your group

    Seeing things in a way that favour your own race is pretty natural. It does not mean you are evil or something. It is justthe way you were brought up. And if you grew up in Europe or spent a good number of years there racist thinking is nearly impossible to escape. Because of thatI do not regard it as a moral failing.
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    (Original post by PrincePaul57993)
    But when I say whites are racist. I don't say this meaning that you or white people are members of the KKK or any far right group. I have racism in me.

    But I admit it.

    But I say it, in the same way that I'd say that car is blue. I'd say it, meaning that you see things that favour your group

    Seeing things in a way that favour your own race is pretty natural. It does not mean you are evil or something. It is justthe way you were brought up. And if you grew up in Europe or spent a good number of years there racist thinking is nearly impossible to escape. Because of thatI do not regard it as a moral failing.
    I understand subconcious or 'learned thinking' over years and years can make us unable to see what is really in front of our eyes sometimes. But I'm struggling to think of an example in everyday life, so if you could provide me with one I would be grateful.

    I believe myself to be not racist in the slightest, so if there's anything I'm doing subconciously that's racist I'd want to know.
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    (Original post by JezWeCan!)
    Just sayin...

    Which part of Tower Hamlets was this taken?
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    (Original post by PrincePaul57993)
    White people in the 60's used to say what you are saying right now to my grand father. That is, they used to say "Good job you didn't grow up in the 20s"

    The denial of racism is essential to it's maintenance.

    But I guess white denial has become such a widespread phenomenon nowadays, that most whites are unwilling to entertain even the mildest of suggestions that racism might still be issues.

    If you want to know about whether or not racism is a problem, it would probably do you best to ask the folks who are its targets. Now if you want to think that black people are lting, then that's on you.

    We, after all, are the ones who must, as a matter of survival, learn what it is, and how and when it’s operating. Whites on the other hand, are the persons who have never had to know a thing about it, and who have always had a keen interest in covering it up.
    Reverse racism


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    LOL london is doomed............more so now with sadiq
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    (Original post by Tyreke)
    I understand subconcious or 'learned thinking' over years and years can make us unable to see what is really in front of our eyes sometimes. But I'm struggling to think of an example in everyday life, so if you could provide me with one I would be grateful.

    I believe myself to be not racist in the slightest, so if there's anything I'm doing subconciously that's racist I'd want to know.
    You say you are not racist but then you do post about "No Whites At The BBC" even though the BBC is run by whites. That's type of thing they post on stormfront. Just to try and wipe up this white victimology

    That is an example of seeing things that favour your group. Your denial of racism of racism is an example of your racism.
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    (Original post by Implication)
    i think the prejudices, stereotypes, irrational expectations etc. that exist in the world are everyone's problems.
    you called yourself 'a cynic' - that was what I was alluding you should work on, rather than seeing the bad in people immediately.
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    White Genocide
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    (Original post by PrincePaul57993)
    You say you are not racist but then you do post about "No Whites At The BBC" even though the BBC is run by whites. That's type of thing they post on stormfront. Just to try and wipe up this white victimology

    That is an example of seeing things that favour your group. Your denial of racism of racism is an example of your racism.
    Stop twisting my words. The thread is entitled "No whites allowed", that is not misleading. The advert did not allow white people to apply. How can that in anyway be deemed as me being racist by correctly stating what the article illustrated.

    I'm finding your discourse hard to follow. In what ways are you racist? i.e. In what ways do you see things that favour your group? Maybe another example would help me understand clearer.
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    (Original post by paul514)
    Imagine if I said nearly all mp's must be white because in almost every constituency the majority of people there are white.

    That's the argument you just used.

    The only thing that matters is do they do the job right


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    Definetly yes.
    However u can say people who better represent their cinstituency may be able to do a hetter job anyway. This is representative democracy......
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    (Original post by Tyreke)
    I appreciate the effort you've put into your comment. I agree with much of it, but there's parts I'd like to offer my opinion on.

    The way they treat black people was disgusting, of course it was, I'm in no way gonna make excuses for that.

    I think we agree on a lot of points, the only point I disagreed with was the Liverpool one.

    'You must think it's #1' I'm not sure why you've made the assumption I believe it is number one?

    Is the issue you mention about whites who leave Uni getting jobs easier perhaps a mixture of both race and class? I know many white people who have struggled to get a job simply because they were working class and didn't have the benefit of a well connected family etc. I thnk this point perhaps extends to the point you make about Black people not being in positions of authority. Firstly, due to the low percentage of Black people in the UK you are less likely to see them in the highest positions, as opposed to White people.

    The bad experience my sister had was not from Black people, it was from another minority group.

    I know you are good people, I have only had a handful of black friends, I wish I knew more but I don't. Every black person I have come into contact with has been kind, entertaining and chilled out, something I love in people.

    To conclude, the main issue I had with your post was that you seemed to think that the majority of white people are racist and cannot be subject to racism. I genuinely hope you do not think this is true, because it really isn't, I don't know a single racist white person. Obviously some people are racist, and that's disgusting, but I really hope you realise most of us aren't. Like I mentioned in my other post to you, I admire your enthusiasm and beliefs, I'd rather have you as a friend than the majority of our generation who seem to be unthinking sheep
    I've lived nearly my entire life as an extreme minority among black and Asian people. What isn't talked about is that a huge portion of the damage that historic racism has done is in their culture and minds. A great deal of belief in discrimination having happened against one's self is in the mind in that it isn't really provable and when you tell someone to expect discrimination because they are black as they are growing up this causes the mind to look for it everywhere. There is actually a quirk or two in the brain that makes this particularly dangerous such as the brain's ability to match abstract vague patterns and its predictive anticipation methods.

    Affirmative action is unacceptable and no one should really have to argue with that. Not only because it is condescending and actually undermines the people you are trying to help but because it often ends up being racist itself and legitimately pitches races against one another. As soon as affirmative action starts, that's it, I'm leaving London, joining white flight and sticking to my own kind.

    However certain things might improve the situation not only where discrimination may actually exist but to undo some of the mental illness historic situations have imposed on following generations but it needs to be done with great care.

    I believe that all jobs should be posted through a single public service. This should be mandatory for most jobs. There should also be more openness about salaries and the result of job searches linked into the same system. However I am cautious on the openness because it can work both ways. I've earned my salary through talent, contribution and hard work. I wouldn't feel comfortable coming under attack from colleagues that are jelly. I've encountered people with Dunning Kruger or that simply wouldn't be qualitifed to truly judge me and they are scary. On the other hand, I am reasonably qualified to judge others and I would like to know if someone is unfairly earning more than me so it works both ways.
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    (Original post by Tyreke)
    Stop twisting my words. The thread is entitled "No whites allowed", that is not misleading. The advert did not allow white people to apply. How can that in anyway be deemed as me being racist by correctly stating what the article illustrated.

    I'm finding your discourse hard to follow. In what ways are you racist? i.e. In what ways do you see things that favour your group? Maybe another example would help me understand clearer.
    Yes. Doing a post saying "No Whites Allowed"

    You are seeing things in a way that favour your own race. Seeing things in a way that favour your own race is pretty natural. It does not mean you are evil or something. It is just the way you were brought up.

    I believe that all white people and even many people of colour raised in a society where racism has been (and still is) so prevalent, will have internalized elements of racist thinking: certain beliefs, stereotypes, assumptions, and judgments about others and themselves.

    So in countries like the UK where beliefs in European/white superiority and domination have been historically embedded, it is likely that everyone in such places will have internalized some of that conditioning.

    For example - Your take whitenesss for granted and don't see the racism when you look at pictures of Jesus as a white man, as Mary as white women, You don't see the racism when your taught that whiute people are fatthers of science, the fathers of maths, the fathers of civilisations.

    Now I think that is very racist white supremacist view of the world.
 
 
 
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