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    (Original post by TheBirder)
    Cheers!



    Do you really not like Dawkins' books? I'm surprised to be honest, I've never met anyone who has actually read and understood and of his books that didn't think they were brilliant.
    He has published a few books that having nothing to do with God, I pass no judgement on them. But the God delusion particularly is terrible. I find that he doesn't really understand what his opponents actually say or their arguments. There are far better atheists to read and to be blunt; I think he's rather hopeless.

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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Anecdotal evidence is absolutely useless. People have visions and hallucinations all the time, if anything it's just proof of mental illness or some chemical imbalance in the brain. There are also people who say they've been abducted and raped by aliens and all manner of bizarre things so then I guess you'd have to believe all of them too, then?

    Not to mention that religious people have "visions" and experiences that contradict each other. A Christian may have a vision of Jesus being God and then a pagan will have an experience of talking to the Goddess Freyja for example. They can't both be right.
    That's why William James provides four categories of a religious experience(an experience must encounter all of these categories for it to be called 'religious'; which are
    1. Ineffability- unable to explain the experience in words
    2. Noetic quality- you can important truths that cannot be obtained anywhere else from the experience
    3. Transciency- the experience was for a short time but has a long effect
    4. Passivity- you are unable to control yourself; you allow everything to take control of you
    William James specifically emphasises the point that induced experience(so like drugs, hallucinations or alcohol) cannot be mistaken to be a religious experience. Even though an induced experience might encounter some of those qualities you don't encounter noetic quality from the experience do you and sometimes when you get drunk you can explain what happened to you like you got an headache or you doze off unlike religious experience the experience was so overwhelming you can't put it in words(no adjective that is near what you experienced). Visions follows the same principles as religious experience so there would be a big difference between a 'fake religious vision' to a 'real religious vision'
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    Yes, I do believe in God with the deepest of my heart for the truest reasons. 😌


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    LOL nope i find it kinda funny tho that people take it seriously however i dont care, what ever helps people sleep at night we are in a post mordern society so believe what u want just dont try with me
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    No. God/s and religion are for people who have not grown up, can't handle the truth and use it as a crutch to get through life without taking responsibility for anything.
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    (Original post by Defraction)
    That's why William James provides four categories of a religious experience(an experience must encounter all of these categories for it to be called 'religious'; which are
    1. Ineffability- unable to explain the experience in words
    2. Noetic quality- you can important truths that cannot be obtained anywhere else from the experience
    3. Transciency- the experience was for a short time but has a long effect
    4. Passivity- you are unable to control yourself; you allow everything to take control of you
    William James specifically emphasises the point that induced experience(so like drugs, hallucinations or alcohol) cannot be mistaken to be a religious experience. Even though an induced experience might encounter some of those qualities you don't encounter noetic quality from the experience do you and sometimes when you get drunk you can explain what happened to you like you got an headache or you doze off unlike religious experience the experience was so overwhelming you can't put it in words(no adjective that is near what you experienced). Visions follows the same principles as religious experience so there would be a big difference between a 'fake religious vision' to a 'real religious vision'

    yes but u have to think god is simply the god of gaps, we might night not be able to explain yet but like swinburne uses the okzoom razer science will explain everything soon and then they will not be any gaps for god left.futhermore u have to understand that it is vested intrest which means that religioius believes have allowed themselves to be foolled or they are simplying lyinging to help support their believe. futhermore when we speak of visions this could be closely liked to day dream or ur imagination going wild but u allow ur self to believe .

    Lastly i believe that if u wanst influneced by the upbrining in relgious backgrounds u wouldnt believe in god simple as
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    (Original post by hannah5176)
    yes but u have to think god is simply the god of gaps, we might night not be able to explain yet but like swinburne uses the okzoom razer science will explain everything soon and then they will not be any gaps for god left.futhermore u have to understand that it is vested intrest which means that religioius believes have allowed themselves to be foolled or they are simplying lyinging to help support their believe. futhermore when we speak of visions this could be closely liked to day dream or ur imagination going wild but u allow ur self to believe .

    Lastly i believe that if u wanst influneced by the upbrining in relgious backgrounds u wouldnt believe in god simple as
    How can you explain the miraculous event of when Abraham was ordered by a divine being to sacrifice his son and God replaced his son with an animal therefore Abraham slaughtered an animal. Or how can you explain when Jesus was born to a virgin and biologically this cannot happen as you need both an X and Y chromosome to give birth but Mary did not have sex and she supposedly gave birth to the pioneer of Christianity. Or how can you explain when Prophet Muhammad read the unaltered word of God, the Qur'an but he was illiterate so how can this actually happen. Many Abrahamic religions, whatever you may call it, have something in common, they all have miraculous event, whether it may be a small or big miraculous event.

    But Richard Swinburne states in The Existence of God in his Principles of Credulity and Testimony that if someone said they had a religious experience then they did. Unlike J.L.Mackie, Swinburne recognises that if that person is known to not tell the truth then you don't need to believe them. His view is reinforced by David Hay, who states in Religious Experience: Stating The Facts(1990), that over 50% who have encountered an religious experience did not speak of their experience to the public. So, what does this tell you? These people did not want to publicise their encounter with a divine being to the public which increases the validity of religious experience. Plus, these people were middle class, happy people and we would all assume that depressed, poor people would encounter a religious experience so this further reinforces the validity of religious experience.

    To be honest, I'm more religious than my family, in a sense that I know more about my religion and other religions as well. I am hoping to read the Bible, the Guru Granth Sahib, the Torah, Tripitaka, Vedas and fully annotate them for my own personal use. The way my family is has nothing to do with my personal religious views. Even if I was part of a non-religious family, I would still behold these evident religious views. I've always been interested in theology, philosophy and ethics so it wouldn't change if I was in a different family upbringing.
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    (Original post by Defraction)
    1. Ineffability- unable to explain the experience in words
    2. Noetic quality- you can important truths that cannot be obtained anywhere else from the experience
    3. Transciency- the experience was for a short time but has a long effect
    4. Passivity- you are unable to control yourself; you allow everything to take control of you
    Could've sworn I've had orgasms like that...

    (Original post by hannah5176)
    okzoom razer
    :rofl:
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    (Original post by Defraction)
    1. Ineffability- unable to explain the experience in words
    1. Indeed. A shabad (hymn) from Guru Nanak comes to mind:
    Which, which, which of Your Glorious Virtues should I chant? There is no end or limitation to them. There are thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, many millions of them, but those who contemplate them are very rare. I am wonder-struck, wonder-struck, wonder-struck and amazed, dyed in the deep crimson color of my Beloved. Says Nanak, the Saints savor this sublime essence, like the mute, who tastes the sweet candy, but only smiles.
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    (Original post by Dima-Blackburn)
    Indeed. A shabad (hymn) from Guru Nanak comes to mind:[/list]
    Which, which, which of Your Glorious Virtues should I chant? There is no end or limitation to them.There are thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, many millions of them, but those who contemplate them are very rare. I am wonder-struck, wonder-struck, wonder-struck and amazed, dyed in the deep crimson color of my Beloved. Says Nanak, the Saints savor this sublime essence, like the mute, who tastes the sweet candy, but only smiles.
    Have you read the Guru Granth Sahib? I am pushing myself to read it after my AS exams alongside with other religious scriptures.
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    YES.
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    (Original post by Defraction)
    Have you read the Guru Granth Sahib? I am pushing myself to read it after my AS exams alongside with other religious scriptures.
    Not all of it but yes I've read most of the main compositions, although the English translations are limited. The core philosophy is outlined in Japji Sahib - the first composition in GGS. The rest of GGS expounds upon the philosophy of Guru Nanak. I would describe it as more of an autobiography of numerous saints from different backgrounds who found the same Truth, as opposed to a textbook with chapters on different topics. It's meant to be sung, not merely read. Hence I wouldn't recommend reading all of it since it can appear to be aimlessly repetitive for beginners

    r/Sikh did a commentary on Japji Sahib last year. You might find it interesting: https://www.reddit.com/r/Sikh/commen...pji_sahib_and/
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    (Original post by Dima-Blackburn)
    Not all of it but yes I've read most of the main compositions, although the English translations are limited. The core philosophy is outlined in Japji Sahib - the first composition in GGS. The rest of GGS expounds upon the philosophy of Guru Nanak. I would describe it as more of an autobiography of numerous saints from different backgrounds who found the same Truth, as opposed to a textbook with chapters on different topics. It's meant to be sung, not merely read. Hence I wouldn't recommend reading all of it since it can appear to be aimlessly repetitive for beginners

    r/Sikh did a commentary on Japji Sahib last year. You might find it interesting: https://www.reddit.com/r/Sikh/commen...pji_sahib_and/
    Thank you very much! How much would it cost for me to purchase the Japji Sahib?
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    Yes.
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    (Original post by hannah5176)
    yes but u have to think god is simply the god of gaps, we might night not be able to explain yet but like swinburne uses the okzoom razer science will explain everything soon and then they will not be any gaps for god left.futhermore u have to understand that it is vested intrest which means that religioius believes have allowed themselves to be foolled or they are simplying lyinging to help support their believe. futhermore when we speak of visions this could be closely liked to day dream or ur imagination going wild but u allow ur self to believe .

    Lastly i believe that if u wanst influneced by the upbrining in relgious backgrounds u wouldnt believe in god simple as
    You can't really say science will definately explain all the "gaps". There's a fair chance it won't.
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    Yes
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    God believes in me!
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    (Original post by Defraction)
    Thank you very much! How much would it cost for me to purchase the Japji Sahib?
    You don't have to buy it since it's available online (check the Reddit link)

    But if you're looking for a physical book, I'd recommend this one: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B00...=UTF8&qid=&sr=

    Hope this helps. Feel free to ask any questions in the TSR Sikh Soc!
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    (Original post by davidguettafan)
    Yes or no?


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    No.
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    Only when i'm in an exam hall...
 
 
 
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