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What is a reason for staying in the Eu? Watch

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    (Original post by JordanL_)
    1. Beneficial for our economy.
    Like joining the Euro would have been 'beneficial to our economy'?
    (Original post by JordanL_)

    2. We get lots of highly skilled immigrants that fill jobs British people can't fill
    Alternatively we could...you know...train our own people to do those jobs.

    This would happen anyway, even if we left the EU and we'd have more control over it.

    (Original post by JordanL_)
    3. The EU is extremely progressive. They've given us most of our rights (our Human Rights, our consumer rights to refunds and working protects, our health and safety rights) and they've taken huge steps toward protecting the environment for future generations
    We had most if not all of this before we joined the EU, infact most of our rules and protections superced the EU's.

    The only one I will agree on is the environmental ones.

    (Original post by JordanL_)
    4. They protect us from the corruption in our own country. The great irony about all these people harping on about "democracy" is that they've made their minds up almost entirely based on what they've read in Rupert Murdoch's tabloids. As Rupert Murdoch himself said when asked why he dislikes the EU: “When I go into Downing Street they do what I say; when I go to Brussels they take no notice.” Fortunately for Rupert, the British public will accept whatever the Daily Mail says without question.

    If you think England is corrupt you should go to China or Russia. You probably think it's corrupt because Labour didn't win the last general election.
    Do you read the Guardian?

    (Original post by JordanL_)
    5. They make us more significant. We have more negotiating power when trading, and we're stronger in international political matters, because we're part of the EU.
    Ummmm, no. We asked for reform and changes in our relationship because we wern't happy, they told us to get lost.
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    (Original post by InnerTemple)
    See above - none, or very little of what I said was covered by UK legislation before the EU stepped in. Anything previously covered by UK legislation was improved by the EU - equal pay for instance (and in that case, it's a bit of a push that the UK thought of this before the EU).

    I do think that many of the rights we have gained from the EU would be at risk. You just have to look at the attitudes of the UK Government in past.

    Holiday pay - the UK government fought hard against that. Collective rights - the current government has been at war with unions and union activity since time begun. Discrimination - the current government proposed capping the amount of compensation awarded in discrimination cases. The consultation on this explained that the Government couldn't because it would be inconsistent with EU protections.

    Rights for agency/part time/ fixed term workers - previous conservative governments have fought against these, vetoing them. Only came into being after Labour took power in 1997.

    Agency workers - the UK again fought hard against this and implemented the bare minimum it could get away with. The UK government has previously thought about breaking the law and not implementing the directive giving rights to agency workers.

    I am sure that most politicians in the Brexit camp would love to see these rights go. When you look at Brexit propaganda like the movie they made, the dream seems to be of mass de-regulation.

    It is also worth pointing out that upon Brexit, a lot of the rights would just disappear. If the UK tears up the European Communities Act 1972, then the legislation made under it would be revoked. That means that Parliament would need need to set out any exceptions to this or re-legislate for the lost rights. This of course gives lots of opportunity to water them down or just do away with them entirely.
    • Holiday entitlement? Sorry, not the EU, paid holiday entitlement, initially of just one week, was first established in 1938 with the Holidays with Pay Act 1938. oops. Oh, and let us not stop there, what does the Working Time Directive mandate? 20 days. What does UK law dictate? 28 days. Our government hates the EU rules on holiday entitlement SO MUCH that they aren't even getting rid of the 8 excess days!
    • Maternity Leave? Well, we get the Social Security Contributions and Benefits Act 1992, and later The Maternity and Parental Leave Regulation 1999 which provide 52 weeks of maternity leave, the second highest in the EU, and nearly four times the 14 weeks required by Directive 92/85/EEC, oh, and that 1992 Act was passed several months before the Directive. Once again, if this government so hates maternity leave, why does maternity leave sit at 52 weeks, and not 14? Further there is to date no EU regulation or directive that requires any pay for workers on maternity/paternity leave, the acts above provide provision for pay for the first 39 weeks; 90% of their ordinary income for the first 6, and then £140 per week for the following 33. Once again, if the Tories so hate maternity pay why was this ever included in the first place, and why does it still exist today?
    • Equal pay between men and women? Why, this was introduced in the Equal Pay Act 1970, another one before we even joined (oops again I guess) and in reaction to strikes in 1968 over unequal pay.
    • Discrimination? Well, Sex Discrimination Act 1975. What about Race you ask? Well, Pre EEC this one too, Race Relations Act 1965.On the matters of Religion and sexuality I do not know off the top of my head the legislation covering it before the Equalities Act 2010, but it's worth noting that the protections are still there and greater than in other member states.
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    The IN campaign are using the same scaremongering tactics they did in Norway.

    Say no to scaremongering, VOTE OUT!

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    • Holiday entitlement? Sorry, not the EU, paid holiday entitlement, initially of just one week, was first established in 1938 with the Holidays with Pay Act 1938. oops. Oh, and let us not stop there, what does the Working Time Directive mandate? 20 days. What does UK law dictate? 28 days. Our government hates the EU rules on holiday entitlement SO MUCH that they aren't even getting rid of the 8 excess days!
    • The Holidays with Pay Act 1938 did not create a general right to paid leave. It allowed a weeks leave for those who had their wages set by a wage regulating authority.

      In 1975 parts of the act were repealed. In the 1990s, the Major government abolished wage councils which (if the moves in 1975 hadn't already) rendered the 1938 act useless. By 1997 there was no statutory right to paid holiday leave - that is until the working time regs.

      As for your second point - see in my post above. For your ease of reference: the UK used to only allow for 20 days paid holiday. It included bank holidays in this - which wasn't the norm in Europe. After union pressure, the bank holidays were not included resulting in 28 days leave.

      Oh, and the UK fought very hard against efforts to put a minimum level of paid leave on a statutory footing.

    • Maternity Leave? Well, we get the Social Security Contributions and Benefits Act 1992, and later The Maternity and Parental Leave Regulation 1999 which provide 52 weeks of maternity leave, the second highest in the EU, and nearly four times the 14 weeks required by Directive 92/85/EEC, oh, and that 1992 Act was passed several months before the Directive. Once again, if this government so hates maternity leave, why does maternity leave sit at 52 weeks, and not 14? Further there is to date no EU regulation or directive that requires any pay for workers on maternity/paternity leave, the acts above provide provision for pay for the first 39 weeks; 90% of their ordinary income for the first 6, and then £140 per week for the following 33. Once again, if the Tories so hate maternity pay why was this ever included in the first place, and why does it still exist today?
The EU tried to improve on its provisions for pregnant workers. it wanted to set a minimum number of weeks at full pay. The UK's Chris Grayling (of Brexit fame) travelled to attend a EU Council meeting to block the move.

In 1988 an EU report noted that the UK's provisions for pregnant workers was lacking... and actually the worst in the EU. It is without a doubt that the EU forced the UK to reconsider it's legislation in this area.

Also - and I didn't mention this before - but the EU has forced changes in the UK law protecting pregnant women against discrimination which would have been allowed under domestic law - Webb v Emo (1994) for example.

  • Equal pay between men and women? Why, this was introduced in the Equal Pay Act 1970, another one before we even joined (oops again I guess) and in reaction to strikes in 1968 over unequal pay.
  • The 1970 act didn't provide equal pay to the same standards the EU has given us.

    For a start, the EU (EEC) was banging on about equal pay in 1957 - well before we had even thought about it. The 1970 act wasn't in force until 1975 - after we joined the EU. By then a Directive was in force and the act had to be changed to adhere to this.

  • Discrimination? Well, Sex Discrimination Act 1975. What about Race you ask? Well, Pre EEC this one too, Race Relations Act 1965.On the matters of Religion and sexuality I do not know off the top of my head the legislation covering it before the Equalities Act 2010, but it's worth noting that the protections are still there and greater than in other member states.
  • Sex discrimination - the EU court has been far more progressive than domestic legislation. Especially when you look at pay and how women are treated in the UK. Same can be said of Race.

    Other things to think of - Age discrimination. The UK left this to the latest possible minute and only acted because if had to comply with the EU. Sexual Orientation - UK law had no real provisions for this until the EU acted in 2003. Religion - that came in 2000 and was enacted to follow a Directive... and even then the UK employers have tested the waters - see the British Airways Crucifix case.

    I stand by what I said - in many cases, the EU has led the way in employee rights. Even where there was UK legislation in place, it was inferior to the rights given to us by the EU.
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