OCR GCSE Classical Greek Watch

Martins1
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#181
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#181
(Original post by Soph.ht)
Yeah it was definitely fighting for 10 years
(Original post by Caecilius'Garden)
Wasn't it 'what were the Athenians doing' - fighting ?
Honestly can't remember - anyone else? Everyone is giving me different answers!
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F0X
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#182
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#182
(Original post by Martins1)
Q – The Spartans were the enemy of the Athenians, but what were they doing now? [1]
A – Now (they were helping) (the inhabitants of Sicily).
I put "they were coming to help the inhabitants of Sicily" - would that lose me a mark?

(But/and after a few days a/a certain stranger/foreigner arrived at Piraeus.)(Having sat in/at a barber’s shop, he spoke/said/told about the disaster/misfortune at Sicily, thinking/assuming that all the citizens already learnt of it/learnt/realised/ascertained/knew.)
"all the citizens had already learned of it" would also be appropriate, I think.

(But when replying he said that he had seen nothing about the stranger,
I think it was the verb "oida" meaning "know" rather than "oraw" meaning "see"...

And I should have known that "deina" meant "terrible things" - I put "terribly". Guess that's just one mark though.
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F0X
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#183
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#183
(Original post by Martins1)
Honestly can't remember - anyone else? Everyone is giving me different answers!
The question was definitely "what were the Athenians doing?" and the answer I think was "fighting for ten years".
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Martins1
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#184
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#184
(Original post by F0X)
I put "they were coming to help the inhabitants of Sicily" - would that lose me a mark?
No, because Boetheo can mean to help or to come to help.
"all the citizens had already learned of it" would also be appropriate, I think.
The of it would be understood of course - I just put knew because it made more sense in context.
I think it was the verb "oida" meaning "know" rather than "oraw" meaning "see"...
That makes more sense I suppose. Cant really remember anymore.
And I should have known that "deina" meant "terrible things" - I put "terribly". Guess that's just one mark though.
You can put terribly or terrible things, because you can make it adverbial, or just add the noun understood as I did.
(Original post by F0X)
The question was definitely "what were the Athenians doing?" and the answer I think was "fighting for ten years".
Thank you very much
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F0X
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#185
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#185
(Original post by Martins1)
No, because Boetheo can mean to help or to come to help.
The of it would be understood of course - I just put knew because it made more sense in context.
That makes more sense I suppose. Cant really remember anymore.

You can put terribly or terrible things, because you can make it adverbial, or just add the noun understood as I did.

Thank you very much
No, thank you I feel more confident now.
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Soph.ht
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#186
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#186
I also got "to know". I think the first question was a one marker so I think the answer was fighting
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PlinyTheElder
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#187
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#187
Pretty sure that the answer to Q1 was "they were fighting on Sicily". I think I remember that the "fighting for ten years" answer is from another past paper.

But I might just be hallucinating, so sorry if I'm wrong
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Martins1
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#188
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#188
(Original post by F0X)
No, thank you I feel more confident now.
(Original post by Soph.ht)
I also got "to know". I think the first question was a one marker so I think the answer was fighting
Ok so I have figured out the know/saw debate as I thought about it for ages last night. The answer is is pretty simple - the aorist stem of to see, orao, is -id-. Therefore to make it aorist, you add the augment and the third person singular ending of strong aorist verbs, en, which creates the words eiden = he saw. More clues that this is true lie in the fact that the past tense of oida, I know, is not on our spec at all. Furthermore, verbs of saying are followed by the indicative for vivid constructions.
Therefore that section was correctly translated as: "When answering he said that he saw nothing about the stranger."
(Original post by PlinyTheElder)
Pretty sure that the answer to Q1 was "they were fighting on Sicily". I think I remember that the "fighting for ten years" answer is from another past paper.

But I might just be hallucinating, so sorry if I'm wrong
I can't remember. Well, I guess we ought to have a vote - anyone else want to chip in?
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helenh567
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#189
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#189
Any helpful tips for revising/doing the sources paper?
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fuzz13
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#190
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#190
(Original post by helenh567)
Any helpful tips for revising/doing the sources paper?
I'll second that!

Though personally I'm planning on reading around some general notes on things like marriage/symposium etc....
And I'll attempt some past papers on Monday or smth but I'm dreading the 12 mark question :argh:
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Kaedra
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#191
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#191
Does anyone know what the timing's like for the sources paper? Is there leftover time or do you need to rush?
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helenh567
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#192
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#192
Yeah any tips on 12 mark question?
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F0X
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#193
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#193
(Original post by Martins1)
Ok so I have figured out the know/saw debate as I thought about it for ages last night. The answer is is pretty simple - the aorist stem of to see, orao, is -id-. Therefore to make it aorist, you add the augment and the third person singular ending of strong aorist verbs, en, which creates the words eiden = he saw. More clues that this is true lie in the fact that the past tense of oida, I know, is not on our spec at all. Furthermore, verbs of saying are followed by the indicative for vivid constructions.
Therefore that section was correctly translated as: "When answering he said that he saw nothing about the stranger."
You know, I'm not sure that ειδεν even was the word in that sentence. Maybe it's just me remembering incorrectly, but I recall the word beginning with οιδ- (although I can't remember how it ended). That was the word I translated as "know".
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Martins1
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#194
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#194
(Original post by helenh567)
Any helpful tips for revising/doing the sources paper?
(Original post by fuzz13)
I'll second that!
Though personally I'm planning on reading around some general notes on things like marriage/symposium etc....
And I'll attempt some past papers on Monday or smth but I'm dreading the 12 mark question :argh:
(Original post by Kaedra)
Does anyone know what the timing's like for the sources paper? Is there leftover time or do you need to rush?
Timing is tight - at a mark a minute and lots of reading to do and 3 essays (2 six markers and a 12 marker), time is of the essence. Do a past paper if you want, you can see for yourself.
(Original post by helenh567)
Yeah any tips on 12 mark question?
For the twelve marker:
As with any essay, answer the question. Every point you make should be directly related to the text. Try to use your exterior knowledge to back up any points you make about the sources (only in 12 marker), but also give evidence from the sources.
I would make three broad points (one for each source), under which I would include three or four sub-points, with a total of about 10 points in the basic form of Point, Evidence, Explanation. Give the point, then show evidence from the source, followed by evidence from exterior knowledge.Then explain that point and try to analyse it perceptively. Ensure that you never waffle, and every sentence, ensure it relates to the question.
The twelve marker always asks you to do the following:
Choose three sources: either from those they give you or ones you have studied (although I would advise against the latter)
Say the relevant facts presented by each source
Explain the significance and limitations of those sources

The first two are the easy bit. But do not underestimate the importance of choosing the right source: don't pick too many vases/paintings, because their limitations have to be the same. I would pick two opposing written sources (perhaps an academic one and a play extract) and one painting/vase. The significance is key - this is what your point is. The limitations of each source should make up one of your three or four points on each one - talk about bias of the author, the fact that vases have to be pretty so aren't necessarily telling the truth etc. then talk about the affect of the limitation. Again the limitation should be presented as follows:
State limitation
Prove it
Explain it

This is a good site:
http://www.insearchofthegreeks.com/
By the way, topics to study for greek sources are as follows:
Greek house, marriage/weddings, slaves, women, parties/sympoisa, theatre, athletics, spartan government, spartan women, spartan education, religion/sacrifices/festivals/gods, athenian citizenship, democracy and jobs/duties. I would also recommend studying the following authors as they typically come up:
Xenophon, Herodotus, Hesiod, Aristophanes, Aristotle, Lysias, Plutarch, Hippocrates, Sophocles, Theogonis and Euripides - think about their potential bias/agenda and how you can speak about that in essays. In general think how to analyse sources and in particular vases/paintings as they always come up - think what they are portraying, why, how and in particular whether they have bias and if their source is reliable!

Good luck
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Martins1
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#195
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#195
(Original post by F0X)
You know, I'm not sure that ειδεν even was the word in that sentence. Maybe it's just me remembering incorrectly, but I recall the word beginning with οιδ- (although I can't remember how it ended). That was the word I translated as "know".
Either way we don't need to know the past tense of to know... but maybe you are right, although I remember seeing eiden.
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helenh567
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#196
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#196
(Original post by Martins1)
Timing is tight - at a mark a minute and lots of reading to do and 3 essays (2 six markers and a 12 marker), time is of the essence. Do a past paper if you want, you can see for yourself.


For the twelve marker:
As with any essay, answer the question. Every point you make should be directly related to the text. Try to use your exterior knowledge to back up any points you make about the sources (only in 12 marker), but also give evidence from the sources.
I would make three broad points (one for each source), under which I would include three or four sub-points, with a total of about 10 points in the basic form of Point, Evidence, Explanation. Give the point, then show evidence from the source, followed by evidence from exterior knowledge.Then explain that point and try to analyse it perceptively. Ensure that you never waffle, and every sentence, ensure it relates to the question.
The twelve marker always asks you to do the following:
Choose three sources: either from those they give you or ones you have studied (although I would advise against the latter)
Say the relevant facts presented by each source
Explain the significance and limitations of those sources

The first two are the easy bit. But do not underestimate the importance of choosing the right source: don't pick too many vases/paintings, because their limitations have to be the same. I would pick two opposing written sources (perhaps an academic one and a play extract) and one painting/vase. The significance is key - this is what your point is. The limitations of each source should make up one of your three or four points on each one - talk about bias of the author, the fact that vases have to be pretty so aren't necessarily telling the truth etc. then talk about the affect of the limitation. Again the limitation should be presented as follows:
State limitation
Prove it
Explain it

This is a good site:
http://www.insearchofthegreeks.com/
By the way, topics to study for greek sources are as follows:
Greek house, marriage/weddings, slaves, women, parties/sympoisa, theatre, athletics, spartan government, spartan women, spartan education, religion/sacrifices/festivals/gods, athenian citizenship, democracy and jobs/duties. I would also recommend studying the following authors as they typically come up:
Xenophon, Herodotus, Hesiod, Aristophanes, Aristotle, Lysias, Plutarch, Hippocrates, Sophocles, Theogonis and Euripides - think about their potential bias/agenda and how you can speak about that in essays. In general think how to analyse sources and in particular vases/paintings as they always come up - think what they are portraying, why, how and in particular whether they have bias and if their source is reliable!

Good luck
You are my favourite person in the world right now! Thank you so much!
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Martins1
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#197
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#197
(Original post by helenh567)
You are my favourite person in the world right now! Thank you so much!
Haha, no problem - when I start revising it after physics this friday I might attach some notes etc that you can use and give some fuller advice
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F0X
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#198
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#198
(Original post by Martins1)
Either way we don't need to know the past tense of to know... but maybe you are right, although I remember seeing eiden.
So do I, but I'm not sure it was in that exact question. Anyway, that's over and done with so we should probably forget about it until results day
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fuzz13
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#199
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#199
(Original post by Kaedra)
Does anyone know what the timing's like for the sources paper? Is there leftover time or do you need to rush?

I haven't actually done a whole past paper before under timed conditions, but I would say defo it's a rush, because you have the whole section and then you have the long question at the back!

(Original post by Martins1)
Timing is tight - at a mark a minute and lots of reading to do and 3 essays (2 six markers and a 12 marker), time is of the essence. Do a past paper if you want, you can see for yourself.


For the twelve marker:
As with any essay, answer the question. Every point you make should be directly related to the text. Try to use your exterior knowledge to back up any points you make about the sources (only in 12 marker), but also give evidence from the sources.
I would make three broad points (one for each source), under which I would include three or four sub-points, with a total of about 10 points in the basic form of Point, Evidence, Explanation. Give the point, then show evidence from the source, followed by evidence from exterior knowledge.Then explain that point and try to analyse it perceptively. Ensure that you never waffle, and every sentence, ensure it relates to the question.
The twelve marker always asks you to do the following:
Choose three sources: either from those they give you or ones you have studied (although I would advise against the latter)
Say the relevant facts presented by each source
Explain the significance and limitations of those sources

The first two are the easy bit. But do not underestimate the importance of choosing the right source: don't pick too many vases/paintings, because their limitations have to be the same. I would pick two opposing written sources (perhaps an academic one and a play extract) and one painting/vase. The significance is key - this is what your point is. The limitations of each source should make up one of your three or four points on each one - talk about bias of the author, the fact that vases have to be pretty so aren't necessarily telling the truth etc. then talk about the affect of the limitation. Again the limitation should be presented as follows:
State limitation
Prove it
Explain it

This is a good site:
http://www.insearchofthegreeks.com/
By the way, topics to study for greek sources are as follows:
Greek house, marriage/weddings, slaves, women, parties/sympoisa, theatre, athletics, spartan government, spartan women, spartan education, religion/sacrifices/festivals/gods, athenian citizenship, democracy and jobs/duties. I would also recommend studying the following authors as they typically come up:
Xenophon, Herodotus, Hesiod, Aristophanes, Aristotle, Lysias, Plutarch, Hippocrates, Sophocles, Theogonis and Euripides - think about their potential bias/agenda and how you can speak about that in essays. In general think how to analyse sources and in particular vases/paintings as they always come up - think what they are portraying, why, how and in particular whether they have bias and if their source is reliable!

Good luck
You are amazing! Thank you thank you thank you!


(Original post by F0X)
So do I, but I'm not sure it was in that exact question. Anyway, that's over and done with so we should probably forget about it until results day
I have no idea about this either, it's a weird one but I would probably say "know", at least that's what I put! In any event I'm definitely putting it out of my mind until results day haha
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helenh567
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#200
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#200
For the sources paper, would a play extract, a vase and a history extract be good choices for the 12 mark question?
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