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    (Original post by tanyapotter)
    It seems that you think the posts of an 18 year old on TSR are causing alienation and having a direct effect on the rise of the right-wing. Do you have any evidence of this?
    I didn't once say the post of an 18 year old..., I said the actions of the left are alienating core voters to far-right political parties. Given your comments, I assume you associate yourself with the left because you don't sound like a statuette for the Conservatives.

    Here are some interesting articles for you to read (or evidence if you will). I took the liberty of getting most of them from left-wing news outlets.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ss-voters-ukip

    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ss-voters-ukip

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...e-9117104.html

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-10245479.html

    http://labourlist.org/2015/08/labour...vative-voters/

    http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...gary.html?_r=0

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...itics-as-usual

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...ort-than-ever/

    And just to make a point about the left losing votes to the far-right, among the DE and C2 classes in the General Election, 19% and 17% respectively voted for UKIP, which is a shift of 12% and 14% respectively from Labour.

    Source: https://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchp...d-in-2015.aspx

    Just to show you some opinion polls as well:

    Germany (shows huge surge in support for AfD)
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...7_Election.png

    France (Marine Le Pen favoured in many polls)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinio...election,_2017

    UK (UKIP the only party with a positive correlation)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinio...short_axis.png

    And this isn't even mentioning Donald Trump in the US, the right-wing government in Poland or even a huge decline in support for the EU in typically supportive EU countries like the Netherlands.
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    (Original post by jake4198)
    I didn't once say the post of an 18 year old..., I said the actions of the left are alienating core voters to far-right political parties. Given your comments, I assume you associate yourself with the left because you don't sound like a statuette for the Conservatives.

    Here are some interesting articles for you to read (or evidence if you will). I took the liberty of getting most of them from left-wing news outlets.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ss-voters-ukip

    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ss-voters-ukip

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...e-9117104.html

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-10245479.html

    http://labourlist.org/2015/08/labour...vative-voters/

    http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...gary.html?_r=0

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...itics-as-usual

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...ort-than-ever/

    And just to make a point about the left losing votes to the far-right, among the DE and C2 classes in the General Election, 19% and 17% respectively voted for UKIP, which is a shift of 12% and 14% respectively from Labour.

    Source: https://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchp...d-in-2015.aspx

    Just to show you some opinion polls as well:

    Germany (shows huge surge in support for AfD)
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...7_Election.png

    France (Marine Le Pen favoured in many polls)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinio...election,_2017

    UK (UKIP the only party with a positive correlation)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinio...short_axis.png

    And this isn't even mentioning Donald Trump in the US, the right-wing government in Poland or even a huge decline in support for the EU in typically supportive EU countries like the Netherlands.
    What actions of the left wing are you referring to? Their mockery of the right?
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    (Original post by tanyapotter)
    What actions of the left wing are you referring to? Their mockery of the right?
    The mockery of the right, and a complete inability to discuss the topic of immigration in a rational and sensible manner.

    It's distressing to see such a rise of support in Europe and in the west for far-right political movements. I think multiculturalism has the potential to be great, my best friend is Muslim and my girlfriend is from China, but at present both sides of the political spectrum are driving a wedge between cohesion, tolerance and progress as a result of hysteria and blind-admittance to political ideals.

    Labour should be the party of the working class, yet they've never been so unpopular with them. The more we continue to dismiss that there's a problem the bigger the price we will pay in the future.
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    (Original post by jake4198)
    The mockery of the right, and a complete inability to discuss the topic of immigration in a rational and sensible manner.

    It's distressing to see such a rise of support in Europe and in the west for far-right political movements. I think multiculturalism has the potential to be great, my best friend is Muslim and my girlfriend is from China, but at present both sides of the political spectrum are driving a wedge between cohesion, tolerance and progress as a result of hysteria and blind-admittance to political ideals.

    Labour should be the party of the working class, yet they've never been so unpopular with them. The more we continue to dismiss that there's a problem the bigger the price we will pay in the future.
    Are you an immigrant?
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    Multiculturalism is white genocide


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    (Original post by tanyapotter)
    Are you an immigrant?
    No, I'm white British
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    Only time will tell, really
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    (Original post by tanyapotter)
    Well, you've seen what British nationalists are like. Entitled, insecure, bad for our economy. Without cultural enrichment, we're just a white supremacy with little going for us apart from the Big Ben and Oxbridge.
    Not every white British person is a racist chav you fool.
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    (Original post by jake4198)
    No, I'm white British
    I am an immigrant. Do you see why we don't see eye-to-eye? Do you realise why the fascist, racist sentiment of many in the Brexit campaign is a bit more troublesome for me than for you?

    You're lucky all I'm doing is mocking Brexit and all that motivates it. It's small respite for the exhausting, insulting, repetitive and boring ******** everyone supporting this campaign spouts on a daily basis. Get over it.
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    (Original post by tanyapotter)
    I am an immigrant. Do you see why we don't see eye-to-eye? Do you realise why the fascist, racist sentiment of many in the Brexit campaign is a bit more troublesome for me than for you?

    You're lucky all I'm doing is mocking Brexit and all that motivates it. It's small respite for the exhausting, insulting, repetitive and boring ******** everyone supporting this campaign spouts on a daily basis. Get over it.
    In my earlier posts I literally said that I understand why minorities might find the Brexit campaign worrisome. Whether you like it or not, staying in the EU is only going to aggravate the issue of immigration, as it is the most pertinent talking point amongst every demographic barring one:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CkXa7C6WUAAtE1C.jpg:large

    Let me make clear once again that I support being in the EU for the reason you just mentioned. The Brexit camp is fulled by xenophobia and closet-racism. However, the whole reason behind my approaching you is because it seemed as though you were letting emotions proceed rational. Alienating those who support Brexit is only going to make matters worse in regards to social progress and tolerance.
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    (Original post by jake4198)
    In my earlier posts I literally said that I understand why minorities might find the Brexit campaign worrisome. Whether you like it or not, staying in the EU is only going to aggravate the issue of immigration, as it is the most pertinent talking point amongst every demographic barring one:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CkXa7C6WUAAtE1C.jpg:large

    Let me make clear once again that I support being in the EU for the reason you just mentioned. The Brexit camp is fulled by xenophobia and closet-racism. However, the whole reason behind my approaching you is because it seemed as though you were letting emotions proceed rational. Alienating those who support Brexit is only going to make matters worse in regards to social progress and tolerance.
    I don't think it's possible to alienate Brexiters over the internet, but okay.

    In any case, the left - especially immigrants who are affected by the anti-multiculturalist principles of Brexit - have NO obligation to be understanding or coddle these people who will obviously never change their mind. Now you're being idealistic.
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    (Original post by tanyapotter)
    I don't think it's possible to alienate Brexiters over the internet, but okay.

    In any case, the left - especially immigrants who are affected by the anti-multiculturalist principles of Brexit - have NO obligation to be understanding or coddle these people who will obviously never change their mind. Now you're being idealistic.
    Yes you do have an obligation, because the principle of being a progressive is about being tolerant, even towards the intolerant. If you can't even consider working with those who have opinions that differ from your own then your worrying about race relations is not going to get better any time soon.

    As I have said repeatedly, the right is rising at unprecedented levels across Europe and the west. How do we stop it? By addressing the issues, such as immigration, to ensure that the left has a cogent and logical argument for multiculturalism, cohesion and togetherness. The fact the right has risen so rapidly in such a short period is clear evidence that this allegiance to far-right fascism can be quelled, tackled and destroyed. If we're not going to tackle it by working with the opposite half, then obviously no change is going to happen. It doesn't help also when you associate the entire Brexit camp as fascists, racists and xenophobes; because if you believe that, you're just as bad as the right who say all Muslims are terrorists. Obviously it's not true, but people love to generalise.
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    (Original post by jake4198)

    As I have said repeatedly, the right is rising at unprecedented levels across Europe and the west.
    Could I have some statistics on this please? Specifically I want a comparison with 1980 (that is the year of the Bologna bombing)
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    (Original post by Naveed-7)
    In 1994, there was an EU referendum in Norway whether to Remain or Leave.
    The Yes campaign at that time said that Norway will lose 50,000 jobs, nobody will invest in Norway, the interest rates will go high, Norway will be isolated, the fisheries will lose out tremendously and the economy will be affected if they Vote Leave.

    Source:



    "The result is a blow for Prime Minister Gro Harlem Brundtland, who has made Norwegian membership of the EU her main political goal for the last four years."

    ""The "yes" campaign has centred on the potential for Norway to become isolated if it doesn't join neighbouring EU countries in an era of expansion and change....But economists also warn that although Norway's oil-dependent economy is strong in the short term, North Sea oil and gas revenues are due to tail off soon and growth is expected to weaken.."

    ^^^ Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/d...00/4208314.stm

    Stock market of Norway before and after 1994:

    Attachment 552698

    Source: http://www.tradingeconomics.com/norway/currency

    Unemployment rate after Voting Leave to 1994 EU referendum:

    Attachment 552712
    Norway was never in the EU, how can it leave? Do get a grip man, you are sounding like a stuck record being played faster and faster.
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    (Original post by JMB:))
    Firstly, you should have more respect for your country, especially being called 'Lord Kitchener'. Insulting patriotism is disrespectful to millions who died for theirs.

    Secondly, describing the unelected bodies of the EU as having 'like no impact on the U.K.' is just not true.
    Lord Kitchner was born in Ireland and served in the French Army.
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    (Original post by Maker)
    Lord Kitchener was born in Ireland and served in the French Army.
    He updated his poster for the occasion
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    (Original post by jneill)
    He updated his poster for the occasion
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    LOL
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    (Original post by Duncan2012)
    Of course we can. Even if there is a small hit to the economy it will be short-lived. We're deciding the long-term future of our country here, and shouldn't be voting scared on the basis of 'something bad might happen for the next year or two'. What's best in the long-term (decades and longer) interest of the United Kingdom?
    That's very selfish though, what about those just about to finish their time in the education system, and had planned to go to Europe to find work? Or even stay, but the economy melts for a bit. It's quite risky don't you think?

    Don't attack me as if I'm voting on the other side to you, I'm yet to make a decision, please just argue like a normal human being should. Argue the point in the man.
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    (Original post by Maker)
    LOL
    I didn't realise how interesting a chap he was until your post inspired me to google; he also learned and spoke Arabic.

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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    Could I have some statistics on this please? Specifically I want a comparison with 1980 (that is the year of the Bologna bombing)
    The Economist; the rise of the far-right since 2013.
    http://cdn.static-economist.com/site...8_woc492_4.png

    The New York Times; the rise of the far-right since 1997.
    http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...a-hungary.html

    Finding comparable statistics from 1980 is not relevant because of the dramatic change in the political and social landscape, however for argument's sake I will provide you some:

    Greece:
    "Founded in 1980, the neo-fascist party Golden Dawn came to international attention in 2012 when it entered the Greek Parliament for the first time,winning 18 seats and becoming the country’s third-largest party. The election results came amid the country’s debilitating debt crisis and resulting austerity measures. The party, which the Council of Europe’s human rights commissioner described in 2013 as “neo-Nazi and violent,” holds extreme anti-immigrant views, favors a defense agreement with Russia and said the euro “turned out to be our destruction.”

    Austria
    "The Freedom Party, which was founded by former Nazis and Teutonic nationalists in the 1950s, had come close to gaining 50 percent of the popular vote. Mr. Hofer campaigned on strengthening the country’s borders and its army, limiting benefits for immigrants and favoring Austrians in the job market. The far-right party, whose motto is “Austria first,” holds 40 of the 183 seats in the National Council."

    France:
    "The party was established in 1972; its founders and sympathizers included former Nazi collaborators and members of the wartime collaborationist Vichy regime. The National Front is now led by Marine Le Pen, who took over from her father, Jean-Marie Le Pen, in 2011. She has tried to soften the party’s image. Mr. Le Pen had used overtly anti-Semitic and racist language and faced repeated prosecution on accusations of Holocaust denial and inciting racial hatred. In the first round of voting in regional elections in December, the National Front won a plurality of the national vote (27 percent)."

    Germany:
    "The far-right Alternative for Germany party, started three years ago as a protest movement against the euro currency won up to 25 percent of the vote in German state elections in March, challenging Germany’s consensus-driven politics. The party failed to win seats in the German Parliament in 2013 by narrowly missing the 5 percent threshold, but is now polling at 10 percent to 12 percent and is expected to be the first right-wing party to enter the Parliament since the end of World War II."

    Source: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/05/22/world/europe/europe-right-wing-austria-hungary.html

    Summary: these far-right parties, all of them founded before or on 1980, have now got more support than ever in their respective countries.
 
 
 
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