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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    How many Algerians did the French murder?
    This is a silly argument. How many native Australians and New Zealanders did the English murder? This is all a long time ago and totally irrelevant.

    That being said, I would agree that I suspect the French would be even more anti-EU than the British if given a similar vote.
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    (Original post by seaholme)
    This is a silly argument. How many native Australians and New Zealanders did the English murder? This is all a long time ago and totally irrelevant.

    That being said, I would agree that I suspect the French would be even more anti-EU than the British if given a similar vote.
    Wasn't really an argument. Just a question.

    It was only 60 years ago.
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    How many Algerians did the French murder?
    Several dozens of thousands died in a war that ended in 1962. 54 years ago.

    The Brits weren't kind with revolts in their colonies as well.
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    Wasn't really an argument. Just a question.

    It was only 60 years ago.
    Our participation in the European Union only started 40 years ago. And I was by a long way alive for neither. If you consider my opinion equivalent to that of those who are 60 or years older than me...

    We'd have left the EU by a 95% margin. Instead of a pathetic 1%. Because young people know what it means to be connected to the world. Thank-you internet, thank-you globalisation. And are better for it.
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    (Original post by Josb)
    Several dozens of thousands died in a war that ended in 1962. 54 years ago.

    The Brits weren't kind with revolts in their colonies as well.
    Difference is that we are not as racist as the French. Even the semi racist White ppl from North England are not too bad.
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    (Original post by seaholme)
    You asked me "So what?" and I told you "so what".

    Movement of jobs is because of access to the single market!
    And the UK will still be able to sell in the EU. Europeans don't want their trade to fall.

    (Original post by seaholme)
    Sod all to do with markets falling or rising, of course the markets are going to dip after this. The thing you need to bring you back up in the long term is industry and investment and we've just taken a big step towards making ourselves un-investable. And yes jobs will be lost in several places because of this. Hurrah.
    An un-investable country is North Korea or Zimbabwe. Investments may be reduced for a few years but they won't vanish.

    (Original post by seaholme)
    I don't mean to be insulting (and I know this usually precedes something insulting) but I honestly don't think you appreciate the actual economic situation in the world. If I were an international bank, or indeed an international company I'd be moving my money away too.
    The economic situation in the world is terrible. Everywhere. This is why investors are ready to pay negative rates on the German debt. As they cannot move their money to a country with a solid growth, they may keep it in the UK, which is not a terrible place after all, especially when you compare it with countries such as Italy or Spain.

    (Original post by seaholme)
    Assuming we will maintain an economic status quo in this country seems very naive given the fact that, like I said, we're at best hoping to maintain the status quo out of any negotiations. At best we're going to have a dip and then try to scrape our way back to where we were back on the 23rd of June before this self-inflicted blow was dealt. I honestly think if people actually understood what they'd voted for there's no way this would have happened.
    It will depend on the next government. My main concern is about the ability of the British government to carry all the trade negotiations and the new legislation. Not sure Boris can do that.
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    (Original post by seaholme)
    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/a3a92744-3...9b15a8ee7.html
    http://news.efinancialcareers.com/uk...ancies-brexit/

    Nearly half of our exports go to the EU. We rely on it for a significant portion of our financial services industry.

    I wonder why you are not worried at all, given the deep pile of **** (predictably) piling up as a consequence of this. At best we are hoping to re-negotiate the status quo against sides who frankly have leverage, and numbers.
    I know I simply do not understand. They are repeatedly presented with logical, common sense arguments as to why this will severely damage our economy and at least significantly impact growth. But they genuinely do not see it, it is bizzare.

    I have learned in psychology that you present people with an ambiguous argument for a topic involving risk, and it will be more or less completely construed in terms of their own self-serving ideology. But to see this happen in real life regarding such an important topic still astounds me. And it's not ambiguous, the economic implications are so clear.
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    I cannot remember feeling this sad
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    (Original post by Josb)
    And the UK will still be able to sell in the EU. Europeans don't want their trade to fall.
    An un-investable country is North Korea or Zimbabwe. Investments may be reduced for a few years but they won't vanish.
    The economic situation in the world is terrible. Everywhere. This is why investors are ready to pay negative rates on the German debt. As they cannot move their money to a country with a solid growth, they may keep it in the UK, which is not a terrible place after all, especially when you compare it with countries such as Italy or Spain.
    It will depend on the next government. My main concern is about the ability of the British government to carry all the trade negotiations and the new legislation. Not sure Boris can do that.
    The UK was doing well. Thanks to being in the EU with free trade and attractive financial markets but not actually trapped in the Euro. Europeans have less to lose than we have to lose, so they have leverage no matter what your position.
    Our economy is not worth investing in at the rate it was previously invested in because we have just done a poo on our own feet.
    The economic situation wasn't bad in the UK compared to the rest of the world. It was okay. Until 2 days ago. And I can't see any reason why it would improve when our main sectors (banking, technology, finance) have just had said poo deposited on their doorstep and have many other places to go.

    I think you are living in an anglo-centric delusion about how much 'power' the UK has against 27 countries who have no reason to grant us anything. But honestly, I really hope your proofless claims are right. Even though the filter of reality tells me no and no by a million miles, not even query no. Because I don't want to live my life pooing on doorsteps. I *wanted* to live my life as a citizen of the something greater, and a citizen of the world with all the freedoms and privileges that entails. Now it's just a case of praying we can negotiate at least some of those rights back.

    I really feel Brexiters have ****ed my life and in the process earnt... nothing. A damned international reputation where we hate all foreign people to the point we'd rather poo on ourselves. I've had a solid headache ever since this ridiculous decision to screw us all was announced. The UK itself may well break up. I feel so, so sad. I loved my country. I'm English but also Scottish, also Welsh. And frankly I'd feel very sad if the Scots left but have not a single query in my mind. Thank god global oil prices have crashed is all I can say, all I can hope is for economic decline on Scotland to force them to stay. How messed up is that? All because I'd love to be able to divorce myself from small minded xenophobia as well. But I was born in England to generations of English people and I have no choice.
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    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politic...endum-35616946

    What's to debate!
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    (Original post by seaholme)
    I think you are living in an anglo-centric delusion about how much 'power' the UK has against 27 countries who have no reason to grant us anything.
    I'm French. I really think that the UK is quite powerful when I see the politicians that we have here, compared to yours.

    Without the British, there is an economic crisis in Spain and a new contagion to the rest of the EU (hence why the Spanish market has plunged by 12% on Friday). European leaders have absolutely no interest in punishing the UK and will try to save everything they can from the current trade partnership.

    (Original post by seaholme)
    I really feel Brexiters have ****ed my life and in the process earnt... nothing. A damned international reputation where we hate all foreign people to the point we'd rather poo on ourselves.
    As I said earlier, I don't see this as a vote against me. Many Europeans would have liked to be able to vote as the British on the EU, but they have been denied that chance, or worse, their vote has been disregarded.



    The EU has failed. It promised prosperity, but those who voted Leave did not see it.
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    (Original post by Josb)
    I'm French. I really think that the UK is quite powerful when I see the politicians that we have here, compared to yours.
    Without the British, there is an economic crisis in Spain and a new contagion to the rest of the EU (hence why the Spanish market has plunged by 12% on Friday). European leaders have absolutely no interest in punishing the UK and will try to save everything they can from the current trade partnership.
    As I said earlier, I don't see this as a vote against me. Many Europeans would have liked to be able to vote as the British on the EU, but they have been denied that chance, or worse, their vote has been disregarded.
    The EU has failed. It promised prosperity, but those who voted Leave did not see it.
    If that is really true, which honestly I feel sceptical of, then I think you are equally ignorant to the power that the EU actually wields. It's 27 countries against one in this instance, and the UK is basically now in a desperate situation. If you think the UK has leverage in this situation, I honestly think you are sorely mistaken. Again it would be to my delight to be proven wrong, I have to live here too.

    The British have nothing to do with an economic crisis in Spain. The Spanish are suffering thanks to the single currency and stagnation of their economy, there's nothing the British can or will do which will affect that. We were never part of the single currency.

    As for the whole prosperity from the EU bullcrap, the EU promised continuing growth, and potentially prosperity. Clearly this was a dreadful and un-nationalistic ordeal. Luckily we've voted to disable our major industries all of our own accord without the EU having to help out, so I guess if those who voted Leave did not see it, perhaps we should have sent them to fricking Specsavers.

    Much independence. So democracy. Whoo.
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    (Original post by TercioOfParma)
    I spent 36 hours researching this in detail, I was well aware of what it entailed. We are not all knuckle dragging imbeciles like you seem to think.


    Freedom from a supra national organisation with an unelected leadership. I am glad It happened like this, as if we had remained there could have been some serious instability when the EU would start to fully evolve into a nation state.
    Phew, at least we dodged that instability.
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    (Original post by flyingpanda)
    Phew, at least we dodged that instability.
    Trust me, when I meant that I meant a lot worse than a recession buddy.
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    Yes, I feel exactly like this. No argument from a 'leaver' about how great this is for our country will make me change my mind, not unless/until we see any actual benefits (rather than predictions) materialise. I am hoping that this will happen. No part of me wants to see Brexiters proven wrong; I want to be proven wrong!! That said: ...

    I feel like I'm grieving for a lost part of who I am. People our age were born into the EU, and I have felt completely European my whole life. I've lived over there and have friends from all over Western Europe - I feel as European as I do British. Now though, with our rejection of Europe (yes, Europe, not simply the EU) I feel as though a part of me has been rejected - by 52% of my own country!

    I'm grieving for the UK too which is now completely divided, with people pitted against each other, even within my own household. I'm grieving at the thought of losing Scotland, who I fully expect will vote themselves out of the UK.

    Also, as a former undergraduate and soon-to-be postgraduate student I am grieving for the richness and diversity in our universities, which will be gradually lost as fewer EU citizens can afford to study here.

    It is a very sad time indeed..
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    (Original post by AngryJellyfish)
    Took about an hour for my hands to stop shaking, and for my knees to return to some semblance of working order after I saw the result this morning. How I managed to get through a regular day at work afterwards, I don't even know.
    Seek professional help.
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    I feel really genuinely upset about it, it is a plunge into the dark, it goes in the face of so much of what I believe in - I think it is a vote founded in xenophobia, it probably wouldn't have happened if not for the plight of Syrian refugees and the fear that working class people have of brown-skinned foreigners, which is an appalling indictment of out country. It is a huge risk financially and whilst I am not averse to risk the fact that there is no clear benefit to leaving the EU makes me feel sick. I think that the fact that 16 and 17 year old's were not allowed to vote whilst sagging wrinkled grannies knocking on heavens door can vote is a disgrace (talk about undemocratic) and if the news is anything to go by most 60+ voters were voting leave for reasons that a particularly stupid toddler could pick holes in. Scotland are going to leave the UK (and lets not pretend this won't happen, it will), something which barely seemed to get a mention in the TV debates, presumably to avoid the pathetic petulant accusation of "scare mongering".

    I really do think this is a terrible moment for Britain. It may pay off, but probably won't - and even now I can't quite grasp what the leave vote is fundamentally for, beyond the sweeping, skin deep catchphrases like 'because immigration!' or 'to get our country back!'...

    It is a sad time, in which the most ignorant parts of society have managed to shove the rest of us around. It really is sad.
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    I'm secretly hoping that the bureaucracy and red-tape of the exit negotiations with the EU lead to it not going through, but I know that'll never happen. Feels bad, man.
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    (Original post by G8D)
    Seek professional help.
    I'm feeling better now, but thanks for your concern.
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    (Original post by seaholme)
    If that is really true, which honestly I feel sceptical of, then I think you are equally ignorant to the power that the EU actually wields. It's 27 countries against one in this instance, and the UK is basically now in a desperate situation. If you think the UK has leverage in this situation, I honestly think you are sorely mistaken.
    It's 27 countries that are incapable of agreeing on anything before months of negotiations. Look at the time they took on the Migrants Crisis, the Greek Debt Crisis, the Ukraine Crisis. The UK will not face a united front.

    (Original post by seaholme)
    The British have nothing to do with an economic crisis in Spain. The Spanish are suffering thanks to the single currency and stagnation of their economy, there's nothing the British can or will do which will affect that. We were never part of the single currency.
    The Spanish real estate sector was almost annihilated in 2008, but has since coyly recovered thanks to British pensioners who buy houses there. If the EU puts restrictions on British immigrants or investments, Spanish real estate will go down again. As Spain is still without a government (there are elections tomorrow), it will be a disaster (hence why Spanish markets have plunged on Friday).

    Btw, the Communists are set to win tomorrow, so the disaster may happen anyway (and the UK will suddenly not look that bad).

    (Original post by seaholme)
    As for the whole prosperity from the EU bullcrap, the EU promised continuing growth, and potentially prosperity. Clearly this was a dreadful and un-nationalistic ordeal. Luckily we've voted to disable our major industries all of our own accord without the EU having to help out, so I guess if those who voted Leave did not see it, perhaps we should have sent them to fricking Specsavers.
    Many, if not most, British industries have already left the UK. This is why people voted Leave in the North and Wales.
 
 
 
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