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    All of our HR dept are female. The HR Director, the three HR Business Partners and the five HR Advisors. It's not a job I'd want though as with the current restructure they are mainly dealing with people's redundancies. Not a pleasant task.
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    (Original post by Sapphire321)
    Anyway, to get to why I started this thread, I used to believe that men and women were fairly equal in modern society in the UK. However, as I’ve got older I’ve realised more and more that this is just not the case. In the workplace, there is still a 9.4% pay gap on average between men and women for full-time employment and when part-time employment is also included the gap extends to 19.2%. In the private sector specifically the pay gap for even for full-time employees was 17.2%! The TUC analysis of the ONS statistics showed that looking at the highest earners that gap widens even more reaching 54.9% for the top 2% of earners. The “glass ceiling” is even now nowhere near broken. There are many more men than women in top level jobs in politics, law, science, technology, engineering, academia, business…
    When will people drop this nonsense about the pay gap? Men earn more because they are more likely to study a degree that leads to better paid industries, men work longer hours and numerous studies have shown earnings are more important to men than women. It also has a lot to do with experience, women earn more than men throughout most of their twenties but then many choose to go and have a family and are then simply less experienced than men when they return.

    (Original post by Sapphire321)
    Just looking at politics alone, there is currently a lot in the media about how the next Prime Minister now has to be either Theresa May or Andrea Leadsom therefore it has to be (how shocking!) a woman. I know it’s only the second time in history so that’s a point of interest and it’s obviously great that there was no gender discrimination in this case that prevented us from getting another female Prime Minister but it still shouldn’t be portrayed by the media as such a novel and unusual idea. Even after the 2015 General Election, only 29% of MPs and a third of cabinet ministers are women. Women in politics seem to be judged by the media and society in general as much for how they look as for their policies and often face sexism from both the media and male colleagues. So, if we can’t get proper gender equality in politics which is both very public and obviously instrumental in trying to create equal rights then what hope is there for other professions.
    Well the idea of a female PM is quite novel and unusual, theres only been one in the past. When you consider that men make up almost 70% of political party members its hardly disproportionate that only 29% of MP's are women. So you think only female politicians are judged for the way they look? No one ever criticised how much of a clown Ed Miliband looks like? No one criticise Eric Pickles' weight or Gordon Brown's glass eye? How do you know that women in politics 'often' face sexism from colleagues?

    (Original post by Sapphire321)
    It’s not just in the workplace that women aren’t treated equally either. Everyday sexism is present in schools, universities and in wider society. Worryingly, there is evidence that our generation, if anything, is getting worse. The rise of “Lad Culture” and “Rape Culture” which are particularly prevalent at universities is becoming a serious problem. Women are routinely objectified. Some men (I am definitely not saying all men) and even some women make sexist jokes and comments on a regular basis including joking about rape. Sexist posts and memes (again including jokes about rape) are often shared on social media… Why is it still seen as acceptable to joke that women should “get back to the kitchen” or worse?
    So if some people make jokes about something its appropriate to put that word before culture? So we have a murder culture, terrorism culture? You're making claims here without any evidence of anything. How is rape culture becoming a serious problem at universities? This objectification thing is such nonsense, commenting on someones looks is not wrong. Even if 'objectification' exists and is wrong at least women aren't objectified on nationally broadcast adverts.

    (Original post by Sapphire321)
    As I said, I used to believe that men and women were now equal in the UK when I was still at school but scarily, knowing what I know now looking back on things that happened when I was at school, sexism was obvious there too. I had one male teacher in sixth form who used to patronisingly call all the girls “young lady” but never the boys “young man”. I had a female teacher who said women who worked and had children were irresponsible because they couldn’t be fully committed to their careers. Boys in my class joked that “all women should be prostitutes” but “*name of girl* wouldn’t get any customers”. In my year, boys and even occasionally girls made jokes that were either sexist or involved rape or both. Also, seeing some of the threads on TSR where (some) guys make sexist and misogynistic comments and then call girls “feminazis” if they dispute what’s been said makes me think that sexism certainly hasn’t gone, it hasn’t even decreased by all that much in some ways, it has just adapted into a modern version.
    You're just bringing up some silly anecdotal evidence that means nothing. I've been charged to get into nightclubs and watched women walk in for free, I've been told to man up, I've seen men rejected by girls for being too short and also seen men berated for rejecting women for being too fat. Men and women are equally unequal.
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    (Original post by AperfectBalance)
    Ok so i will address the whole "lad culture" and rape joke stuff as the other points have already been covered well.

    So yes I will agree lad culture is bad. But I am a firm believer that anything can be joked about and now while I would not go up to somone that has been raped and make a joke about it as that is being a bit of a ass I see no problem with someone making a joke of rape or abuse or anything really as long as they realize it is a joke, and the whole women belong in the kitchen it is something only people who are joking, "lads" or idiots say.
    Personally, I would think that going up to someone who has actually been raped and making jokes about rape is way more serious than being "a bit of an ass". That would be totally horrendous! As to everything else you've said, do you not think that lad culture and joking about that sort of thing, when it occurs on such a large scale, can make people think that that sort of behaviour is acceptable/normal? For example, some "lads" seem to think it is okay to sleep with a girl when she is way too drunk to consent whereas this is actually rape. I agree with you that that is only something that "lads" or idiots say but unfortunately that (and much worse) can happen quite a lot.
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    (Original post by IronicalMan)
    Tbf, it's nor really ability but interest, for example I got an A in English at gcse, but since I never enjoyed it, especially literature on romeo and juliet, which the girls liked and were more interested in(the boys, including me, were not at all) I didn't study it for a level, not to mention I thought economics and maths would be more important in getting a high paid job, but lots of girls were less focused on making choices about future pay, and rather what they ENJOYED, I mean, boys are just as capable as girls in English, but **** all did English and **** all girls did maths.
    That's just you specifically though. I got an A* in English Language and an A in English Literature at GCSE but I also didn't enjoy English and didn't take it for AS or A Level. I was much more interested in Science, Maths and Foreign Languages which is why I took Biology, Chemistry, Maths and French for AS Level and then the two sciences and Maths for A Level. It's to do with personal preferences, not gender. I am much more interested in science and maths topics than Romeo and Juliet! Girls can be just as focused on doing subjects that can lead to better paid jobs as boys. It again depends on the specific people. Personally, I chose subjects that I both enjoyed and suited my career ambitions. Girls are also just as capable as boys at Maths. Many of the boys in my year did English. Admittedly, I was the only girl in my year that did Maths A Level but that is definitely not the case in most other schools.
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    (Original post by FNPC)
    Stop talking rubbish. There is no rape culture.
    If you want me to take any notice of your opinion then could you elaborate on why you think there is no rape culture rather than just being rude?
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    (Original post by Sapphire321)
    That's just you specifically though. I got an A* in English Language and an A in English Literature at GCSE but I also didn't enjoy English and didn't take it for AS or A Level. I was much more interested in Science, Maths and Foreign Languages which is why I took Biology, Chemistry, Maths and French for AS Level and then the two sciences and Maths for A Level. It's to do with personal preferences, not gender. I am much more interested in science and maths topics than Romeo and Juliet! Girls can be just as focused on doing subjects that can lead to better paid jobs as boys. It again depends on the specific people. Personally, I chose subjects that I both enjoyed and suited my career ambitions. Girls are also just as capable as boys at Maths. Many of the boys in my year did English. Admittedly, I was the only girl in my year that did Maths A Level but that is definitely not the case in most other schools.
    I never said that wouldn't... Most males go into work compared to females, and they do crap subjects, that's a fact... So stop blaming males or muh patriarchy or muh gender roles. Not that I see anything wrong with gender roles as long as people want to do them....
    Like you see feminists on here looking down on women that depend upon their partner for income or look after the children, when arguably, looking after your children is very important.
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    In the UK, Sweden or Germany? Not so much.

    In Saudi Arabia, Zimbabwe or Syria? Yes, this is where real women struggle and I think Feminists would do well to focus on the latter rather than the former.
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    (Original post by fermat1324)
    Its not natural.

    Similar to why women. Look for dominant less feminine men as partners.

    If women had incredible ideas theyd succeed in their own rigbt without campaigns etc. Did Paul Dirac need to do a campaivn to be taken seriously? Sure you can bring uo some modern hacky female scientist or mathematician who has gone through education and is well qualified but the men blow them out of the water fair and square. Sophie Germains work was pretty trivial and she is noted merely because she is female.

    Similar in entertainment and literature where talented male performees vastly outweight the females.

    Women make up 51% of the population ffs. No excuses ladies
    Better yourselves or go home.
    Oh so according to you gender equality is unnatural? So you think men are just entitled to be superior? I actually cannot believe how backwards some people on here are.

    Well, obviously it's unlikely women would want feminine men as partners but I personally wouldn't want a partner that was "dominant" and thought they were superior. I would want to be on equal terms with my partner.

    That is just ridiculous. How talented you are at a particular discipline has nothing to do with your gender. Girls actually outperform boys at school and women are also more likely to go to university, less likely to drop out and more likely to get a good degree. Obviously in the past there were more notable male scientists and mathematicians etc. because women in general were prevented from getting a education, going to university and having careers. Women have needed campaigns in the past because they have been prevented from getting a proper education, from going to university, from having careers rather than staying at home, from voting in elections etc. NOT because they were in any way less talented than men. You could quote example after example after example of talented women in any discipline. On what possible basis can you say that the men "blow" the women "out of the water"? No, I'm sure Paul Dirac did not need a campaign to be taken seriously because obviously he was very talented and he wouldn't have faced any obstacles in being listened to or a lack of opportunities due to his gender whereas a woman who was equally talented would have faced significant disadvantages at that time in history. Given she was born in 1776 with the status of women in society at that time what Sophie Germain achieved was far from "trivial". There would obviously be differences in how advanced their work was because Sophie Germain was born over a century before Paul Dirac was.

    I've got a better idea. Why don't you "better yourself" or go back to the 1950s where you belong?
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    OP do you happen to have a women/gender studies degree?
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    (Original post by epage)
    Okay, but why is that? That isn't just nature, boys aren't just born with math/science ability..
    Actually, it IS highly dependant on nature and nurture plays a much smaller role than feminists like to believe.

    Women are the ones who breastfeed, the ones who therefore need more mothering instincts than men do. They're naturally more compassionate and are better at looking after others than men are, generally. This leads to women making lifestyle choices which are different from mens'. Women tend to choose careers which involve much more social interaction and assisting others. Why do you think nursing and child care are dominated by women? Because those careers utilise womens' motherly instincts.

    Men on the other hand were the ones who'd have to go out hunting and foraging while their mates were busy breastfeeding. You tend to find that mens' instincts are more about exploration and problem solving than womens' are for this very reason. STEM subjects utilise these instincts, hence why they're male dominated.

    As for gender equality, the reason we haven't achieved that yet is because of feminism and identity politics. Statistical evidence disproves the notion that women are discriminated against. Women are more likely to get jobs than their male counterparts, to get into higher education than men, are given far shorter prison sentences than men for the same crimes, earn higher wages after graduating than men do, among countless other things.

    Identity politics, including feminism, involves the denial of facts in favour of uninformed popular belief. It is an abomination which has done nothing but rob people of their freedom of speech and worse still, it has made having unpopular opinions a criminal offence. It cripples progress and destroys social cohesion. It is literally the greatest threat to world peace, more so than ISIS since it actually makes their crimes easier to commit.
    Spoiler:
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    If any SJWs here are offended by this: go crawl back into your safe space, cuck. My religion protects my right to speak the truth, no matter how unpopular that truth is. Come at me at your own risk. I won't hesitate to brand you a racist (because Buddhism is a race just like Islam is, right?) and a Buddhaphobe in a satisfying twist of leftist identity politics.
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    I have an honest question: I understand the wage gap may not be an accurate representation of the reality behind wages. But thinking about examples in Hollywood, don't women (i'm thinking about Jennifer Lawrence in particular here) earn less per movie? I've often read that female actresses earn less than their male counterparts. How true is this?
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    (Original post by Mr.cool)
    OP do you happen to have a women/gender studies degree?
    No, I don't actually. In fact, I didn't even realise you could do that as a degree in the UK which shows how interested I was in looking into taking that sort of degree at university... I am going to study Biochemistry.
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    (Original post by Sapphire321)
    I am a 21 year old woman and I would describe myself as a feminist going by the actual definition of feminism which is: the advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of equality of the sexes. I am a feminist because I believe that men and women should be equal in society and that neither men nor women should be forced to conform to traditional gender roles NOT because I think that women should be superior to or have more privileges or better rights than men or because I think all men are sexist. I would also say, before people stereotype me, that I am straight, I do not hate men, I do take care of my appearance and I am not in any way the type of radical, extreme feminist that so many people now seem to think that all women who want equal rights are.

    Anyway, to get to why I started this thread, I used to believe that men and women were fairly equal in modern society in the UK. However, as I’ve got older I’ve realised more and more that this is just not the case. In the workplace, there is still a 9.4% pay gap on average between men and women for full-time employment and when part-time employment is also included the gap extends to 19.2%. In the private sector specifically the pay gap for even for full-time employees was 17.2%! The TUC analysis of the ONS statistics showed that looking at the highest earners that gap widens even more reaching 54.9% for the top 2% of earners. The “glass ceiling” is even now nowhere near broken. There are many more men than women in top level jobs in politics, law, science, technology, engineering, academia, business… Just looking at politics alone, there is currently a lot in the media about how the next Prime Minister now has to be either Theresa May or Andrea Leadsom therefore it has to be (how shocking!) a woman. I know it’s only the second time in history so that’s a point of interest and it’s obviously great that there was no gender discrimination in this case that prevented us from getting another female Prime Minister but it still shouldn’t be portrayed by the media as such a novel and unusual idea. Even after the 2015 General Election, only 29% of MPs and a third of cabinet ministers are women. Women in politics seem to be judged by the media and society in general as much for how they look as for their policies and often face sexism from both the media and male colleagues. So, if we can’t get proper gender equality in politics which is both very public and obviously instrumental in trying to create equal rights then what hope is there for other professions.

    It’s not just in the workplace that women aren’t treated equally either. Everyday sexism is present in schools, universities and in wider society. Worryingly, there is evidence that our generation, if anything, is getting worse. The rise of “Lad Culture” and “Rape Culture” which are particularly prevalent at universities is becoming a serious problem. Women are routinely objectified. Some men (I am definitely not saying all men) and even some women make sexist jokes and comments on a regular basis including joking about rape. Sexist posts and memes (again including jokes about rape) are often shared on social media… Why is it still seen as acceptable to joke that women should “get back to the kitchen” or worse?

    As I said, I used to believe that men and women were now equal in the UK when I was still at school but scarily, knowing what I know now looking back on things that happened when I was at school, sexism was obvious there too. I had one male teacher in sixth form who used to patronisingly call all the girls “young lady” but never the boys “young man”. I had a female teacher who said women who worked and had children were irresponsible because they couldn’t be fully committed to their careers. Boys in my class joked that “all women should be prostitutes” but “*name of girl* wouldn’t get any customers”. In my year, boys and even occasionally girls made jokes that were either sexist or involved rape or both. Also, seeing some of the threads on TSR where (some) guys make sexist and misogynistic comments and then call girls “feminazis” if they dispute what’s been said makes me think that sexism certainly hasn’t gone, it hasn’t even decreased by all that much in some ways, it has just adapted into a modern version.

    So, why is it that in 2016 women are still not treated as equal to men? And why do people say that feminism is now irrelevant when there is still so much inequality? In a country where women got the vote almost a century ago shouldn’t we have better equality in modern society than this?
    Sorry but the gender pay gap has been exposed as a myth. The pay gap does not exist within a profession or an organisation. It exists because of the vastly different roles this men and women do on average. These different roles come about from choice.

    A lady called me "young man" several times in a pizza restaurant the other day. Why would it bother me? It's a compliment.

    Genders are just different. Wouldn't life be boring if we were all the same.


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    (Original post by Sapphire321)
    Oh so according to you gender equality is unnatural? So you think men are just entitled to be superior? I actually cannot believe how backwards some people on here are.

    Well, obviously it's unlikely women would want feminine men as partners but I personally wouldn't want a partner that was "dominant" and thought they were superior. I would want to be on equal terms with my partner.

    That is just ridiculous. How talented you are at a particular discipline has nothing to do with your gender. Girls actually outperform boys at school and women are also more likely to go to university, less likely to drop out and more likely to get a good degree. Obviously in the past there were more notable male scientists and mathematicians etc. because women in general were prevented from getting a education, going to university and having careers. Women have needed campaigns in the past because they have been prevented from getting a proper education, from going to university, from having careers rather than staying at home, from voting in elections etc. NOT because they were in any way less talented than men. You could quote example after example after example of talented women in any discipline. On what possible basis can you say that the men "blow" the women "out of the water"? No, I'm sure Paul Dirac did not need a campaign to be taken seriously because obviously he was very talented and he wouldn't have faced any obstacles in being listened to or a lack of opportunities due to his gender whereas a woman who was equally talented would have faced significant disadvantages at that time in history. Given she was born in 1776 with the status of women in society at that time what Sophie Germain achieved was far from "trivial". There would obviously be differences in how advanced their work was because Sophie Germain was born over a century before Paul Dirac was.

    I've got a better idea. Why don't you "better yourself" or go back to the 1950s where you belong?
    Lol someone's on her period
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    (Original post by Sapphire321)
    No, I don't actually. In fact, I didn't even realise you could do that as a degree in the UK which shows how interested I was in looking into taking that sort of degree at university... I am going to study Biochemistry.
    Lol 17 year old prospective biochem student evaluates the work of Dirac vs Germain. If you didnt just use google for your last response about the years each person was active, i imagine you like germain, if youve studied her, because shes the only one of the two you can understand
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    (Original post by Sapphire321)
    Oh so according to you gender equality is unnatural? So you think men are just entitled to be superior? I actually cannot believe how backwards some people on here are.

    Well, obviously it's unlikely women would want feminine men as partners but I personally wouldn't want a partner that was "dominant" and thought they were superior. I would want to be on equal terms with my partner.

    That is just ridiculous. How talented you are at a particular discipline has nothing to do with your gender. Girls actually outperform boys at school and women are also more likely to go to university, less likely to drop out and more likely to get a good degree. Obviously in the past there were more notable male scientists and mathematicians etc. because women in general were prevented from getting a education, going to university and having careers. Women have needed campaigns in the past because they have been prevented from getting a proper education, from going to university, from having careers rather than staying at home, from voting in elections etc. NOT because they were in any way less talented than men. You could quote example after example after example of talented women in any discipline. On what possible basis can you say that the men "blow" the women "out of the water"? No, I'm sure Paul Dirac did not need a campaign to be taken seriously because obviously he was very talented and he wouldn't have faced any obstacles in being listened to or a lack of opportunities due to his gender whereas a woman who was equally talented would have faced significant disadvantages at that time in history. Given she was born in 1776 with the status of women in society at that time what Sophie Germain achieved was far from "trivial". There would obviously be differences in how advanced their work was because Sophie Germain was born over a century before Paul Dirac was.

    I've got a better idea. Why don't you "better yourself" or go back to the 1950s where you belong?
    Girls do better in school because of sexism that favours them yet when was the last time you complained about this?
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    (Original post by Settle)
    I have an honest question: I understand the wage gap may not be an accurate representation of the reality behind wages. But thinking about examples in Hollywood, don't women (i'm thinking about Jennifer Lawrence in particular here) earn less per movie? I've often read that female actresses earn less than their male counterparts. How true is this?
    She wasn't as big then I believe.
    She got more than Chris Pratt for passengers is that proof of a pay gap? It's all about how big you are in the industry.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-new-film.html
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    Don't try to argue with a feminist, there is no point. They don't accept facts and quote ones which are not real. Consistently use anecdotal evidence to justify their claims instead of true hard facts. Feminists claim to represent all in society despite being the exact opposite and work in the interests of Western women alone seen by your lack of interest in women who live in states that actually are sexist. They should not be argued against as their minds are fixated on male privilege and empowerment. Simply put feminists are beyond hope and don't bother talking sense into them as they are essentially irrelevant even if they can be annoying at times.
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    (Original post by Sapphire321)
    Personally, I would think that going up to someone who has actually been raped and making jokes about rape is way more serious than being "a bit of an ass". That would be totally horrendous! As to everything else you've said, do you not think that lad culture and joking about that sort of thing, when it occurs on such a large scale, can make people think that that sort of behaviour is acceptable/normal? For example, some "lads" seem to think it is okay to sleep with a girl when she is way too drunk to consent whereas this is actually rape. I agree with you that that is only something that "lads" or idiots say but unfortunately that (and much worse) can happen quite a lot.
    Obviously there are situations where joking is not good and that applies to all jokes especially ones people may see as offensive.

    But to sum up my idea on "lad" jokes I will use racist jokes as a example.
    I make a racist joke about Black people stealing or something like that. Now I know that it is not true and I do not think like that so for me that is fine but someone who says the same joke but thinks it is correct is a idiot.
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    (Original post by IronicalMan)
    Nice? I didn't think girls liked that lmao
    Most girls like it when guys are nice to them. It's a complete myth that girls only like guys that treat them like dirt, at least in my experience.
 
 
 
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