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    (Original post by MrsSheldonCooper)
    Since when is criticism hate speech? There's a huge difference educate yourself on it.

    I'm a xenophobe? Oh dear I'm going to cry myself to sleep now! I'm going to just show how xenophobic I am now

    loveleest YaliaV Josb Good bloke TercioOfParma The_Opinion Guys can you please give me examples of when I've been xenophobic? This deluded idiot thinks I'm one.
    He's an idiot lmao
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    (Original post by swiss_cheese)
    Lol call your reinforcements because you're too lazy to reply. Great job, you're one salty person, did connor make you like this?
    I fail to see how you can call someone else lazy when you were too lazy to read others arguments before.
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    (Original post by MrsSheldonCooper)
    Since when is criticism hate speech? There's a huge difference educate yourself on it.

    I'm a xenophobe? Oh dear I'm going to cry myself to sleep now! I'm going to just show how xenophobic I am now

    loveleest YaliaV Josb Good bloke TercioOfParma The_Opinion Guys can you please give me examples of when I've been xenophobic? This deluded idiot thinks I'm one.
    don't bother answering - we can continue the discussion without feeding uselessly offensive and insulting trolls

    in fact, criticising Islam has the same intellectual dignity and purpose implied by criticism of communism, or of Christianity, or of any other ideology which has a social and political dimension

    there are millions and millions of Christians (and even quite a few communists, still). Should we stop criticising Stalin's crimes, or the Inquisition, or even just the Castro brothers, just because some of our co-citizens might be offended ?

    agreed, Islamic terrorism in the West actively involves a small minority of Muslims only (some more may agree with it, or avoid explicit condemnation, but are not willing to act) - but violent Islam (in different forms) is present in many, many countries. So, discussing and criticising Islam is perfectly appropriate

    It is absurd to claim that we should stop criticising Islam for what we perceive as being its dark elements, which do pose a threat to our democratic, secular societies. And, in fact, it's not only about violence and terrorism : it's about many, many other points

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    (Original post by 1010marina)
    I fail to see how you can call someone else lazy when you were too lazy to read others arguments before.
    well you clearly failed to see the half-assed response she gave to my post
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    (Original post by The_Opinion)
    Well people like him believe that anything other than complete praise for vast Muslim migration and Islamisation of the West is xenophobic / racist / insert any other term here. Mainly because they don't know what those words mean and often support the aims of terrorists.

    I just laugh when people use them words against me and call them anti-sematic in reply, it triggers them.
    Oh so I'm supporting the terrorists am I?

    Lmfao

    You realise the terrorists WANT us to hate, alienate and attack Muslims so that they feel like ISIS are the only ones who support them.. Explicitly speaking, you guys are supporting them far more than me, given that you're all seemingly incapable of differentiating terrorists from Muslims.

    pure lols, you guys just type BS
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    (Original post by Trapz99)
    The man has been identified as Mohammed B.
    https://www.rt.com/news/352066-franc...man-daughters/
    Not all countries are civilised ! This is the problem ... He ruined their lives , they will never grow up and see the world 😣😣😣😣 and have memories basically just live life the world we live in today is S H I T
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    (Original post by oShahpo)
    We're ****ed...

    Do you have the statistic?
    It's based on census data from the early-mid 00's.

    Here is an article on it and here is the a counter article trying to debunk it from the group think PC brigade, with such gems as,

    "the population didn't grow more people just felt comfortable identifying themselves as Muslim"

    and

    "The fertility rate will (hopefully) begin to drop off"

    You know it's going to almost certainly happen when we have the multiculturalists telling us not to worry as it is all just racist propaganda.

    http://www.thecommentator.com/articl...ure_of_britain

    http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/...-by-2050/13690
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    Cultural enrichment works in mysterious ways.
    i literally died ? this is my ghost posting ?

    *
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    (Original post by swiss_cheese)
    Oh so I'm supporting the terrorists am I?

    Lmfao

    You realise the terrorists WANT us to hate, alienate and attack Muslims so that they feel like ISIS are the only ones who support them.. Explicitly speaking, you guys are supporting them far more than me, given that you're all seemingly incapable of differentiating terrorists from Muslims.

    pure lols, you guys just type BS
    Pointing out that Islam is quite a violent religion that encourages it's followers to systematically oppress women is not the same as comparing all Muslims to terrorists.

    By encouraging the delusion that anyone who opposes Islam is a racist who thinks all Muslims are terrorists you contribute more to the belief that Islam Is Perfect And Everybody Else Is A Racist
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    (Original post by 1010marina)
    Pointing out that Islam is quite a violent religion that encourages it's followers to systematically oppress women is not the same as comparing all Muslims to terrorists.

    By encouraging the delusion that anyone who opposes Islam is a racist who thinks all Muslims are terrorists you contribute more to the belief that Islam Is Perfect And Everybody Else Is A Racist
    There's actually no point arguing with that guy. He's completely deluded.
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    (Original post by Trapz99)
    The man has been identified as Mohammed B.
    https://www.rt.com/news/352066-franc...man-daughters/
    I'm shocked.
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    (Original post by 1010marina)
    Pointing out that Islam is quite a violent religion that encourages it's followers to systematically oppress women is not the same as comparing all Muslims to terrorists.

    By encouraging the delusion that anyone who opposes Islam is a racist who thinks all Muslims are terrorists you contribute more to the belief that Islam Is Perfect And Everybody Else Is A Racist
    It seems like many Muslims want to conflate the criticisms and say that if you believe the ideology and beliefs of Islam are wrong and offensive, that you are being a bigot. They want their religion to be beyond criticism. I suppose it is beyond criticism in the countries where they are the majority
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    (Original post by HanSoloLuck)
    "The fertility rate will (hopefully) begin to drop off"
    Why would they hope for its fertility rate to drop? That seems to implicitly accept that it would be a bad thing if Islam keeps growing at such a fast rate
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    (Original post by 1010marina)
    Pointing out that Islam is quite a violent religion that encourages it's followers to systematically oppress women is not the same as comparing all Muslims to terrorists.

    By encouraging the delusion that anyone who opposes Islam is a racist who thinks all Muslims are terrorists you contribute more to the belief that Islam Is Perfect And Everybody Else Is A Racist
    You don't understand what I am trying to put forward then.

    I am trying to tell people to stop incriminating Islam as the singular, binary factor which causes Muslims to commit terrorist atrocities. Instead, there is a web of complex factors leading up to radicalisation and then to them committing attacks. Islam's only place in this web is the veil behind which these murderers hide to justify their actions. Its neither the source, nor the supporting element in causing them to do this.

    Once you realise the actual reason why these hateful people do what they do, then we can stop making Muslims feel alienated, and then we can stop more of them from doing these things out of spite towards ignorant westerners. Then we can fight ISIS for what they really are - murderers who are warping Islam to justify brutality, instead of this damaging war on Islamic culture and Muslims.

    None of these Muslims matter to me, none of the people they kill matter to me, the only thing which I care about is preventing society from destroying itself from within just like it did in Germany last century. We are on track for a surge in far-right politics. Brexit was the first stage, Donald Trump, Le Pen, etc... they will all have their turn - and if they win, racism and xenophobia will be legitimised, and we will destroy the progress we've made - while the real things we need to sort out exist right in front of us. Global warming, economic crises, global terrorism. Instead, we're bitterly attacking each other because it apparently feels good to blame others for our problems.

    Islam is a very disturbing thing, alongside almost all religions. It's disgusting that some people should live thinking that they get a better life after death if they pray to a God or do a specific set of things. But when it comes to terrorism and morality, Muslims aren't bad people - they've just got into this mess following 9/11, the Iraq War, Syrian Civil War, ISIS, etc.. where the west collectively blames all forms of Islamic extremism on an ancient scripture - an ancient scripture written to govern a desperate, isolated Middle Eastern society 1500 years ago. Criticising it nowadays is like criticising the British Empire and assuming that radical Muslims are similar to far-right pro-Britain supporters such as people in Britain First.

    The world would be a better place with no religions whatsoever. But that's not going to happen in my lifetime, it cannot be forced without angering people - therefore its unrealistic to go around criticising Muslims, encouraging them to see Islam as dangerous. Because these people in the Middle East have generally been brought up in society where Islamic government and their forms of Sharia Law is all they know to be true. To go around saying vile things about it, true or not, isn't going to make them want to quit, its going to antagonise them - and it will contribute to them becoming segregated and subsequently radicalised.

    You've got to ask yourself if your constant attacks on an ancient scripture and thereby almost all of its followers are warranted. Islam, 1500 years ago, can be justified - because the world was circumstantially different, there are governments in the Middle East, Africa and Asia which need to be exposed for their cruelty because of Islam, but yelling 'religion of peace' every time ISIS attack, or going around discriminating against western Muslims is doing ****all to help the situation.
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    (Original post by swiss_cheese)
    3 people shot dead in England, likely not an Islamist attack, the thread on the topic was virtually ignored. But the Arab name and possible Islamic motive of this specific attack gets pages and pages of attention - it describes something vile among the users here. I am pointing it out, because I want a news forum which isn't polluted by vile racists and hateful people who want to criticise peoples' religious beliefs in an unwarranted manner.
    Most of those posts were either you being an idiot, you being called out on said idiocy.
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    (Original post by AlexanderHam)
    Why would they hope for its fertility rate to drop? That seems to implicitly accept that it would be a bad thing if Islam keeps growing at such a fast rate
    Then didn't say hopefully, I did, probably could have worded it a bit more clearly, I was paraphrasing with commentary. You should read the article, it's laughable reasoning that their sheep can parrot off when presented with the facts.

    I'd also point out that the demographic energy need only exist for a generation or two anyway for them to reach a majority by 2050, hence why it's so close. So it wouldn't matter if they stop having as many children after a few generations away, which they probably wont.

    It's a fertility Jihad and it has been done many times before with great success by Muslims, they have children at younger ages and they have more of them. By the time a an average European of today becomes mother of her 1 child the Muslim equivalent is a mother of 3 and a grandmother of 9.
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    (Original post by MildredMalone)
    Most of those posts were either you being an idiot, you being called out on said idiocy.
    Lol you think I care about what you think? You're negatively predisposed to me because I am offering an alternative interpretation to the classic divisive "Islam is the problem", so believe what you want, but without an actual constructive response, you're not worth my time.
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    (Original post by AlexanderHam)
    It seems like many Muslims want to conflate the criticisms and say that if you believe the ideology and beliefs of Islam are wrong and offensive, that you are being a bigot. They want their religion to be beyond criticism. I suppose it is beyond criticism in the countries where they are the majority
    in my view, this is the main point

    personally, I oppose Islam's social and political agenda. As simple as that

    there are many elements in Islam which I oppose (too many to list them here). This has absolutely nothing to do with hating Muslims, or Arabs, or South Asians

    and, in my view, there are many parts of the Islamic "message" which are clearly linked with political violence (whether qualifying as terrorism or not)

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    (Original post by swiss_cheese)
    Lol you think I care about what you think? You're negatively predisposed to me because I am offering an alternative interpretation to the classic divisive "Islam is the problem", so believe what you want, but without an actual constructive response, you're not worth my time.
    Please reiterate what your alternative is, because I must have missed it
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    (Original post by swiss_cheese)
    You don't understand what I am trying to put forward then.

    I am trying to tell people to stop incriminating Islam as the singular, binary factor which causes Muslims to commit terrorist atrocities. Instead, there is a web of complex factors leading up to radicalisation and then to them committing attacks. Islam's only place in this web is the veil behind which these murderers hide to justify their actions. Its neither the source, nor the supporting element in causing them to do this.

    Once you realise the actual reason why these hateful people do what they do, then we can stop making Muslims feel alienated, and then we can stop more of them from doing these things out of spite towards ignorant westerners. Then we can fight ISIS for what they really are - murderers who are warping Islam to justify brutality, instead of this damaging war on Islamic culture and Muslims.

    None of these Muslims matter to me, none of the people they kill matter to me, the only thing which I care about is preventing society from destroying itself from within just like it did in Germany last century. We are on track for a surge in far-right politics. Brexit was the first stage, Donald Trump, Le Pen, etc... they will all have their turn - and if they win, racism and xenophobia will be legitimised, and we will destroy the progress we've made - while the real things we need to sort out exist right in front of us. Global warming, economic crises, global terrorism. Instead, we're bitterly attacking each other because it apparently feels good to blame others for our problems.

    Islam is a very disturbing thing, alongside almost all religions. It's disgusting that some people should live thinking that they get a better life after death if they pray to a God or do a specific set of things. But when it comes to terrorism and morality, Muslims aren't bad people - they've just got into this mess following 9/11, the Iraq War, Syrian Civil War, ISIS, etc.. where the west collectively blames all forms of Islamic extremism on an ancient scripture - an ancient scripture written to govern a desperate, isolated Middle Eastern society 1500 years ago. Criticising it nowadays is like criticising the British Empire and assuming that radical Muslims are similar to far-right pro-Britain supporters such as people in Britain First.

    The world would be a better place with no religions whatsoever. But that's not going to happen in my lifetime, it cannot be forced without angering people - therefore its unrealistic to go around criticising Muslims, encouraging them to see Islam as dangerous. Because these people in the Middle East have generally been brought up in society where Islamic government and their forms of Sharia Law is all they know to be true. To go around saying vile things about it, true or not, isn't going to make them want to quit, its going to antagonise them - and it will contribute to them becoming segregated and subsequently radicalised.

    You've got to ask yourself if your constant attacks on an ancient scripture and thereby almost all of its followers are warranted. Islam, 1500 years ago, can be justified - because the world was circumstantially different, there are governments in the Middle East, Africa and Asia which need to be exposed for their cruelty because of Islam, but yelling 'religion of peace' every time ISIS attack, or going around discriminating against western Muslims is doing ****all to help the situation.
    Congratulations on your first actual argument of the day - it's only taken 5 hours for us to get here.

    I think it is utterly wrong for Muslims and indeed anyone to try to pin the blame for radicalisation on the people that fear terror in the West. Yes people may feel misunderstood because their religion is criticised (a nice time to point out that while many people around the world are homophobic we rarely hear of gay terror attacks. Perhaps because homosexuals don't have a handbook that tells them they must kill the straight people if they want to be a good gay.). But being misunderstood is not an open licence to kill.

    It is also worth pointing out that for all people say Islam does not condone such terror attacks, it's quite easy to fine quotes from the Quran and from top scholars that agre with violence and misogyny.

    So no, we shouldn't go and shove fake poo in a 4 year olds face or rip the Niqab off a woman wearing one but neither should we have to agree with the violence in the Quran.
 
 
 
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