Two men kidnap priest, take hostages in church near the French Rouen Watch

BaconandSauce
Badges: 2
Rep:
?
#181
Report 2 years ago
#181
(Original post by jeremy1988)
Why would anyone hate Christians enough to do this? Don't they have a right to practice their faith without getting attacked?

That priest wasn't doing anything wrong.
All you have to do is look at how Christianity has been constantly attacked by the religion of peace in the countries which were once non muslim.

There's a reason why when you look at population figures the numbers of Muslims in a country always increases but the number for other faiths either declines or is static.
5
reply
BaconandSauce
Badges: 2
Rep:
?
#182
Report 2 years ago
#182
(Original post by RomeRules2Day)
Do they really want war?
Yes

and they always have.

http://corpus.quran.com/translation....ter=8&verse=39
0
reply
Profesh
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#183
Report 2 years ago
#183
(Original post by Foo.mp4)
#ReligionOfPeace. Enough is enough, it's time to reverse the multicultural madness before things get as ugly as this on a wider scale and the people start taking the law into their own hands. Leaders must act decisively, and they must act now; anything less will result in a repeat of human tragedy in Europe. Do NOT moderate this post, you have NO right to censor
...you were banned?
0
reply
The_Opinion
Badges: 6
Rep:
?
#184
Report 2 years ago
#184
(Original post by TercioOfParma)
Religion of peace. If things don't change there will be some serious unrest in France, potentially even regime change.

Those Muslims who are stupid enough to believe we will be outbred by them, they forget that there are large chunks of society who would like nothing less than to remove them. I would like to avoid that if possible, but it seems that increasingly that we're accelerating towards something like that.
As things stand, they will outbreed us, that is a fact. The government is unwilling to do anything to stop that from happening.
0
reply
username1866585
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#185
Report 2 years ago
#185
Really a church and a priest? It is like they want to go against what the Prophet explicitly taught.

In the commentary on the verse which says, “Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors.”

“Meaning, ‘Fight in Allah’s path and do not transgress when doing it. Entering into that (transgression) is the committal of the forbidden acts just as Al-Hasan Al-Basri stated. [Those forbidden acts include] Mutilation, stealing from the war booty, killing women and children, Old folk who have no notion about them and do not having fighting within them, monks and the people of monasteries and churches, the burning of trees, the killing of animals for other reasons than benefit. This has been stated by the companion Ibn ‘Abbas, [scholars and leaders such as] ‘Umar ibn Abdul-‘Aziz, Muqatil ibn Hayyan and other than them.” [Tafsir Al-Qur’an by Ibn Kathir]
0
reply
TercioOfParma
Badges: 18
Rep:
?
#186
Report 2 years ago
#186
(Original post by The_Opinion)
As things stand, they will outbreed us, that is a fact. The government is unwilling to do anything to stop that from happening.
You don't think the people will grow sick of it and move against it themselves? I would be surprised if they didn't.
0
reply
BaconandSauce
Badges: 2
Rep:
?
#187
Report 2 years ago
#187
(Original post by blah3210)
Really a church and a priest? It is like they want to go against what the Prophet explicitly taught.
From the quran

And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allah) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allah Alone [in the whole of the world]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allah), then certainly, Allah is All-Seer of what they do.

http://corpus.quran.com/translation....ter=8&verse=39

So it seem they have done exactly what he taught.

But as I've shown you a verse than CAN be used to justify this why don't you show me one that says the opposite
0
reply
BaconandSauce
Badges: 2
Rep:
?
#188
Report 2 years ago
#188
(Original post by TercioOfParma)
You don't think the people will grow sick of it and move against it themselves. I would be surprised if they didn't.
We will

they forget in the west they live, in the main, of the taxpayers of the country.

at some point we will ask for this to stop then we will demand it.
1
reply
username1866585
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#189
Report 2 years ago
#189
(Original post by BaconandSauce)
From the quran

And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allah) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allah Alone [in the whole of the world]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allah), then certainly, Allah is All-Seer of what they do.

http://corpus.quran.com/translation....ter=8&verse=39

So it seem they have done exactly what he taught.

But as I've shown you a verse than CAN be used to justify this why don't you show me one that says the opposite
Ohhhhhh reallyyyyyyy? Can it REALLY be used to justify this? I've just shown you what the rules of warfare in Islam say about killing priests, but nooooo, you had to post the most misinterpreted verse from the Qur'an to further your agenda this had anything to do with Islam. Nice try, cherry-picker.

The verse that you have posted is from Surah Anfal Ch. 8 verse 39. It is absolutely true and unadulterated. But didn't you notice that the verse begins with an And? Doesn't it indicate that there must be something before the verse that set the context of the verse?
Let me quote the preceding verse i.e. 8:38

Say to those who have disbelieved that if they cease hostilities, what has previously occurred will be forgiven for them. But if they return to hostility - then the precedent of the former rebellious peoples has already taken place.

Clear enough?
Verse 8:39 is in the context of those non-Muslims who were hostile to the Muslims back then. Islam is not just a spiritual entity but also a political entity. With the advent of Islam and the Muslim empire most non-Muslim tribes and kingdoms around it began attacking and waging a war against it. All seemingly "violent" verses refer to those who were at war with Muslims/Islam. As for general non-Muslims, the Quran clearly states that they must be treated with kindness and justice. Have a look at this verse:

Surah Mumtahana 60:8-9
Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly.
Allah only forbids you from those who fight you because of religion and expel you from your homes and aid in your expulsion - [forbids] that you make allies of them. And whoever makes allies of them, then it is those who are the wrongdoers.

But of course, Bacon boy is going to continue cherry-picking. How smart of you to post a verse you think you understand, and how insidious of you to hope this magic verse would nullify ALL THE OTHER VERSES THAT DEAL WITH WARFARE AND TREATMENT OF NON-MUSLIMS, ALL THE HADITH ON ISLAMIC WARFARE AND THE RULES THEREOF, ALL THE ACCEPTED COMMENTARIES, THE HISTORY OF ISLAM FROM THE CONSTITUTION OF MEDINA WHICH GUARANTEES FREEDOM OF RELIGION TO THE LAST LEGITIMATE CALIPHATE WHEREIN NON-MUSLIMS MINORITIES LIVED IN PEACE.

WHAT A JOKE YOU ARE, BACON BOY.
0
reply
NickLCFC
Badges: 14
Rep:
?
#190
Report 2 years ago
#190
4
reply
BaconandSauce
Badges: 2
Rep:
?
#191
Report 2 years ago
#191
(Original post by blah3210)
Ohhhhhh reallyyyyyyy? Can it REALLY be used to justify this? I've just shown you what the rules of warfare in Islam say about killing priests, but nooooo, you had to post the most misinterpreted verse from the Qur'an to further your agenda this had anything to do with Islam. Nice try, cherry-picker.

The verse that you have posted is from Surah Anfal Ch. 8 verse 39. It is absolutely true and unadulterated. But didn't you notice that the verse begins with an And? Doesn't it indicate that there must be something before the verse that set the context of the verse?
Let me quote the preceding verse i.e. 8:38

Say to those who have disbelieved that if they cease hostilities, what has previously occurred will be forgiven for them. But if they return to hostility - then the precedent of the former rebellious peoples has already taken place.

Clear enough?
Verse 8:39 is in the context of those non-Muslims who were hostile to the Muslims back then. Islam is not just a spiritual entity but also a political entity. With the advent of Islam and the Muslim empire most non-Muslim tribes and kingdoms around it began attacking and waging a war against it. All seemingly "violent" verses refer to those who were at war with Muslims/Islam. As for general non-Muslims, the Quran clearly states that they must be treated with kindness and justice. Have a look at this verse:

Surah Mumtahana 60:8-9
Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly.
Allah only forbids you from those who fight you because of religion and expel you from your homes and aid in your expulsion - [forbids] that you make allies of them. And whoever makes allies of them, then it is those who are the wrongdoers.
Yes it can

The verse before says if they have stopped hostilities but warns about what will happen if they do it again

It is clear these people think the hostilities are ongoing so again justification can be found

The very fact the quran contains these verses and these justification in the first place is what is causing the issues.

Perhaps your god would have been better just not taking about all the murders and when it's OK to kill people in his final messgae to humanity.
0
reply
Grand High Witch
Badges: 6
Rep:
?
#192
Report 2 years ago
#192
Another "known to police" suspect.
1
reply
The_Opinion
Badges: 6
Rep:
?
#193
Report 2 years ago
#193
(Original post by TercioOfParma)
You don't think the people will grow sick of it and move against it themselves? I would be surprised if they didn't.
(Original post by BaconandSauce)
We will

they forget in the west they live, in the main, of the taxpayers of the country.

at some point we will ask for this to stop then we will demand it.
They will just imprison anyone who starts to call for religious based action, if the masses all do it, you can do it, but the first few people always get action taken on them by the government. Remember, the British government simply does not care about the British people.
0
reply
BaconandSauce
Badges: 2
Rep:
?
#194
Report 2 years ago
#194
(Original post by blah3210)
THE CONSTITUTION OF MEDINA WHICH GUARANTEES FREEDOM OF RELIGION
Where are the pagan shrines (you know the ones that were there before islam appeared) in medina and what is the total population of people who mark their faith as pagan?
1
reply
TercioOfParma
Badges: 18
Rep:
?
#195
Report 2 years ago
#195
(Original post by blah3210)
Ohhhhhh reallyyyyyyy? Can it REALLY be used to justify this? I've just shown you what the rules of warfare in Islam say about killing priests, but nooooo, you had to post the most misinterpreted verse from the Qur'an to further your agenda this had anything to do with Islam. Nice try, cherry-picker.

The verse that you have posted is from Surah Anfal Ch. 8 verse 39. It is absolutely true and unadulterated. But didn't you notice that the verse begins with an And? Doesn't it indicate that there must be something before the verse that set the context of the verse?
Let me quote the preceding verse i.e. 8:38

Say to those who have disbelieved that if they cease hostilities, what has previously occurred will be forgiven for them. But if they return to hostility - then the precedent of the former rebellious peoples has already taken place.

Clear enough?
Verse 8:39 is in the context of those non-Muslims who were hostile to the Muslims back then. Islam is not just a spiritual entity but also a political entity. With the advent of Islam and the Muslim empire most non-Muslim tribes and kingdoms around it began attacking and waging a war against it. All seemingly "violent" verses refer to those who were at war with Muslims/Islam. As for general non-Muslims, the Quran clearly states that they must be treated with kindness and justice. Have a look at this verse:

Surah Mumtahana 60:8-9
Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly.
Allah only forbids you from those who fight you because of religion and expel you from your homes and aid in your expulsion - [forbids] that you make allies of them. And whoever makes allies of them, then it is those who are the wrongdoers.

But of course, Bacon boy is going to continue cherry-picking. How smart of you to post a verse you think you understand, and how insidious of you to hope this magic verse would nullify ALL THE OTHER VERSES THAT DEAL WITH WARFARE AND TREATMENT OF NON-MUSLIMS, ALL THE HADITH ON ISLAMIC WARFARE AND THE RULES THEREOF, ALL THE ACCEPTED COMMENTARIES, THE HISTORY OF ISLAM FROM THE CONSTITUTION OF MEDINA WHICH GUARANTEES FREEDOM OF RELIGION TO THE LAST LEGITIMATE CALIPHATE WHEREIN NON-MUSLIMS MINORITIES LIVED IN PEACE.

WHAT A JOKE YOU ARE, BACON BOY.

You know, you can write a love letter to somebody, but if you write one line where you say you're going to strangle you people are most likely to pay attention to that the most.


Also, I recommend this channel. This is an ex radical islamist establishing that, in fact, ISIS and terrorism has grounding in scripture and common interpretations. He also reproduces his videos in arabic if you have issues with translation.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9J...=TheMaskedArab
0
reply
TercioOfParma
Badges: 18
Rep:
?
#196
Report 2 years ago
#196
(Original post by The_Opinion)
They will just imprison anyone who starts to call for religious based action, if the masses all do it, you can do it, but the first few people always get action taken on them by the government. Remember, the British government simply does not care about the British people.
The thing is, what I think will happen is that there will be a London riots style situation where things ****ing explode. It won't be the action of an individual, it will be some 9/11 style event most likely.
0
reply
username1866585
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#197
Report 2 years ago
#197
(Original post by BaconandSauce)
Yes it can

The verse before says if they have stopped hostilities but warns about what will happen if they do it again

It is clear these people think the hostilities are ongoing so again justification can be found
Hey genius, you seem to be an expert of Islamic warfare. Can you please show me where these people think the hostilities are on-going? Remember, these verses were composed within an environment where Muslims faced an existential threat from different tribes? Can you show me where a Muslim has claimed to be inspired to kill priests from this verse? Can you also show me any verses which say killing non-combatant civilians is justified?


The very fact the quran contains these verses and these justification in the first place is what is causing the issues.

Perhaps your god would have been better just not taking about all the murders and when it's OK to kill people in his final messgae to humanity.
Why shouldn't it contain verses condoning self-defense? Pacifism is stupid.
0
reply
Betelgeuse-
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#198
Report 2 years ago
#198
(Original post by NickLCFC)
1
reply
username1866585
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#199
Report 2 years ago
#199
(Original post by TercioOfParma)
You know, you can write a love letter to somebody, but if you write one line where you say you're going to strangle you people are most likely to pay attention to that the most.
Except it's not out of place. It's a simple command to self-defense.


Also, I recommend this channel. This is an ex radical islamist establishing that, in fact, ISIS and terrorism has grounding in scripture and common interpretations. He also reproduces his videos in arabic if you have issues with translation.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9J...=TheMaskedArab
I've seen his videos. If ISIS has grounding in Islam, why would the mainstream scholars condemn them?
http://www.lettertobaghdadi.com/

Why would Al-Azhar call for the execution of ISIS members?
http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News...rrorists-.html
0
reply
TercioOfParma
Badges: 18
Rep:
?
#200
Report 2 years ago
#200
(Original post by blah3210)
Except it's not out of place. It's a simple command to self-defense.




I've seen his videos. If ISIS has grounding in Islam, why would the mainstream scholars condemn them?
http://www.lettertobaghdadi.com/

Why would Al-Azhar call for the execution of ISIS members?
http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News...rrorists-.html
ISIS is unpopular. Imagine what would happen to them if they did support ISIS. It is quite clear the Caliphate isn't going to last more than a few years at most.

Also, different interpretations are a thing.
0
reply
X

Quick Reply

Attached files
Write a reply...
Reply
new posts
Latest
My Feed

See more of what you like on
The Student Room

You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

Personalise

Are you chained to your phone?

Yes (102)
19.81%
Yes, but I'm trying to cut back (210)
40.78%
Nope, not that interesting (203)
39.42%

Watched Threads

View All