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    The problem I have with banning it for the purposes of secularism and anti-misogyny is that even though it is symbolic of a religion that is technically sexist, the wearing of a full body swimsuit is not necessarily a product of said sexism, nor does it have to be seen as a religious statement by the wearer (although I think freedom of religion is important/should be allowed anyway, even if the country is on the whole secular). You can say that many women will be forced by their male relatives to wear such a thing, but you don't really know for sure in each individual case, and I am sure that, whether it is a consequence of indoctrination or not, many women would prefer to wear the full swimsuit, and I don't think they should be required not to.
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    Fair play to him but the reasoning he gave is bloody awful 'access to beaches and for swimming is banned to any person wearing improper clothes that are not respectful of good morals and secularism' ... Seems to me he is arguably stating the opposite case :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by SMEGGGY)
    What about Bikinis? So it's ok to have the 'freedom' to show your tits (as they hang out, are left nothing to the imagination) and thin g stings showing the arse, but no freedom for a woman to cover herself?

    That's perversion. France doesn't know the meaning if the the only choice is the former....(no choice but only)

    No better than the Taliban, Al Queda, ISIL FORCING burkas, here the French forcing muslims (others too no doubt) to wear what they say rather then choosing...

    :rolleyes:

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    You consider a person's body sexual only because it is not the norm to see boobs everyday. If you watch a documentary showing tribespeople, the reporters and men don't pop a boner seeing topless women - why? Because that is their life.

    You have been taught that a woman's body is sexual. The only times you're going see breasts day to day is either the breasts of a girl you're intimate with, just before sex or in porn videos. So you think it is perversion to see part of a person's body. If you see a mans pecs, it is not sexual - he is probably topless because it is too warm. In day to day life you are more likely to see a man topless so you are desensitised to it.

    Stop objectifying our bodies. It is not "perversion" for women to wear clothing that shows you a glimpse of something you don't normally see. It is not sexual. It is just a body.

    You can choose to wear a bikini. One day you might wear a swimming costume, the next a sarong or wet suit. But the choice is there.

    On the other hand, forcing a woman to keep herself covered up because she is threatened with hell or rape is demeaning. It gives her no choice. And considering France is being attacked by the same people promoting that kind of hardcore Islam, it is easy to see why this could be taken as an act against the secular nature of France.
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    While I fully understand and support the ban or burkas(not the normal hijabs), I cannot understand this at all. There is no way that this can help with improving the lives of muslim women, or public safety. It will just exclude muslim women
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    (Original post by 1010marina)
    On the other hand, forcing a woman to keep herself covered up because she is threatened with hell or rape is demeaning. It gives her no choice. And considering France is being attacked by the same people promoting that kind of hardcore Islam, it is easy to see why this could be taken as an act against the secular nature of France.
    There is this notion that Muslim women have no agency even in the West. Let's say a single Muslim woman feels more comfortable wearing the burkini. Even if this is down to indoctrination - well let's be frank, the vast majority of religious believers are, by varying degrees, indoctrinated - is it not denying her her agency to say that she only feels this way because she has been taught to feel this way, and that she is ultimately wrong to? How is it at all about liberty in such a case?
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    (Original post by 13 1 20 8 42)
    There is this notion that Muslim women have no agency even in the West. Let's say a single Muslim woman feels more comfortable wearing the burkini. Even if this is down to indoctrination - well let's be frank, the vast majority of religious believers are, by varying degrees, indoctrinated - is it not denying her her agency to say that she only feels this way because she has been taught to feel this way, and that she is ultimately wrong to? How is it at all about liberty in such a case?
    Considering so many of the Muslims on this thread & t'other one about Muslim women being less successful have said they feel like they face criticism or do not have support or get funny looks when they wear the hijab/niqab/other clothing, I doubt that the majority feel more comfortable in it.

    But assuming that they do, and it's a case of simply preferring not to show parts of your body because you don't like people looking or are self conscious (even if thats just because you've been taught that entire body is sexual) etc., then it is no longer religious and more like a personal preference in my eyes. Which is why I was asking is the burkini just doing a job better or is it important that the burkini is specifically Islamic clothing...

    But if you are wearing it because you fear punishment from your god then it is religious. And if there was no reason to wear it then much fewer women would want to cover themselves up... It's kind of a loop and I realise I'm not being 100% clear but what I'm trying to get across is do people wear it out of social embarrassment and think wet suits/rash vests aren't sufficient or is it primarily religious in nature (and will protect you from immodesty in god's eyes) and it has to be a burkini because that's the only option with the religious connotations, the only option that is Islamic?
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    Try to imagine if it was trump suggesting this kinda thing. How many of you people would jump on the Trump is evil band wagon ? Can't ban the clothing of other cultures because that is racist and zenophobic. Yet france comes out and actively enforces this and you are all for it ? Why not line up firing squads to kill anyone not half white and half baguette ?
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    What would happen if Nigella Lawson decided to wear her burkini on the French Riviera?
    Would she cop a fine and be asked to leave?
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    (Original post by Masamune)
    Try to imagine if it was trump suggesting this kinda thing. How many of you people would jump on the Trump is evil band wagon ? Can't ban the clothing of other cultures because that is racist and zenophobic. Yet france comes out and actively enforces this and you are all for it ? Why not line up firing squads to kill anyone not half white and half baguette ?
    I personally hope Trump goes further
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    (Original post by MeYou2Night)
    Wear*

    There's two ways secularism can be carried out you know. Again, nobody is forced to live in France so if they don't like it, they know where the door is.
    So.... when a party comes in to power, and another party disagrees according to you instead of debating the issue, instead of protesting (which seems to be a favourite French pastime) they should leave the country instead?And no, nobody is forced to live in France but many people are born there, enjoy living there, have friends and family there and may only know French. There aren't exactly many other French speaking nations.. Why should people just accept what one single mayor said, when he/she didn't even discuss it with any one?
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    (Original post by M14B)
    I personally hope Trump goes further
    What do you want Trump to do?
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    (Original post by The_Internet)
    What do you want Trump to do?
    Probably wants the bringing back of concentration camps.

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    (Original post by The_Internet)
    What do you want Trump to do?
    Start by shaving beards perhps
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    (Original post by M14B)
    Start by shaving beards perhps
    And what if they don't have beards?
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    I think that's so disgusting and racist. Women are so sexualised in the west and if a woman chooses to cover up then we should let her, no-one should have to show their skin. In the west, we need to be more accepting of minorities so we can live together in harmony, and this can only happen if we allow others to be themselves.
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    Another vote for very silly.
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    (Original post by In Uranus)
    I think that's so disgusting and racist. Women are so sexualised in the west and if a woman chooses to cover up then we should let her, no-one should have to show their skin. In the west, we need to be more accepting of minorities so we can live together in harmony, and this can only happen if we allow others to be themselves.
    Wear a long sleeve t shirt and jeans then. Then they'll be covered up and not wearing any sexualised clothing. Plus nobody makes a woman wear revealing clothing so get of your selfreighteous high horse.

    Plus it also isn't racist as Muslim is not a race.
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    (Original post by teenhorrorstory)
    ...but ostentatious clothing which refers to an allegiance to terrorist movements which are at war with us," he said.
    I'm sorry, what?

    How many ISIS militants does he know that regularly go out into battle with Burkinis?
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    (Original post by MeYou2Night)
    Wear a long sleeve t shirt and jeans then. Then they'll be covered up and not wearing any sexualised clothing. Plus nobody makes a woman wear revealing clothing so get of your selfreighteous high horse.

    Plus it also isn't racist as Muslim is not a race.
    This ONLY targets Muslim women. Call it anti Muslim if you want... Is this the new thing for the far right - it can't be racist because I'm not discriminating against a race but rather a religion

    And seemingly this mayor wouldn't allow you to cover up because in his view you must wear bikinis. Notice how no one cares if a man chooses to wear clothes instead of going topless?
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    (Original post by The_Internet)
    This ONLY targets Muslim women. Call it into Muslim if you want... Is this the new thing for the far right - it can't be racist because I'm not discriminating against a race but rather a religion

    And seemingly this mayor wouldn't allow you to cover up because in his view you must wear bikinis. Notice how no one cares if a man chooses to wear clothes instead of going topless?
    They can still cover up. Like I said, wear a long sleeved t shirt and jeans or a really long skirt. The majority of your skin is then covered.

    The mayor never said a women must wear a bikini so don't make up things to suit your own agenda.
 
 
 
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