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    (Original post by inhuman)
    How is it not backward. Look at every single Muslim-majority country in the world. Look at the culture, values and norms there and compare them to ours. They have ideas that we held sometimes centuries ago.

    The irony is, for every Muslim that thinks Islam is modern and isn't all that bad as people like I say, you can find another Muslim that thinks I am 100% correct with the only difference that he thinks that is great and I think it's sickening. I have met many Muslims in discussions online that think yes women must cover up and if they don't it means they are whores and that they are free to be had. This is the reality that you don't want to accept.
    Firstly, you say look at every Muslim-majority country, however: 'Culture, values and norms' are a social construct and differ in all parts of the world. Religion does not influence your culture. Moreover, the west has become more secular over the years and with that comes new ideas and views.

    I don't dispute what you say, Islam dates back to 1400 years ago. Yes, elements of the Religion will not be suited to modern society but the context in which they were written was for the time period the Religion came about. Yes, you can now argue the Religion is 'out-dated' but Islam is a way of life and can be implemented in today's society too. Additionally, a Muslim who looks down upon another Muslim is evidently not well accustomed to the concept of respect. I am a Muslim and hold no animosity towards women who do not wear a hijab, who am I to judge?

    The reality is, your argument of Muslims perception of women who do not wear the hijab is based on encounters online, which you have fabricated your generalisations upon.
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    (Original post by SteamboatMickey)
    Finally someone who I can share a mutual viewpoint with!

    Yeah, I just think it's silly. Have an opinion, you have a right to it, but you have a right to it just like these people have a right to an activity/action. Of course, it's a little different if this person is threatening innocent people/harming themselves or others in anyway. But if it's simply just an item of clothing - who cares!?

    Exactly. It's just wasted time to me. Just get on with your life and stop trying to police people for being who they are.
    But is it just an item of clothing?

    In Nazi occupied areas, Jews were made to wear the Star of David...just a badge, just an item of clothing - who cares!?
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    (Original post by inhuman)
    But is it just an item of clothing?

    In Nazi occupied areas, Jews were made to wear the Star of David...just a badge, just an item of clothing - who cares!?
    Please, that was done with the intention of discriminating/harming them.

    I specifically said: "It's a little different if this person is threatening innocent people/harming themselves or others in anyway".

    A star of David on Jews in Nazi occupied areas = intention to harm (by first isolating) = a "little different" than someone just wanting to practise their faith harmlessly, and not being made to do so.
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    (Original post by Hassanh)
    Firstly, you say look at every Muslim-majority country, however: 'Culture, values and norms' are a social construct and differ in all parts of the world. Religion does not influence your culture. Moreover, the west has become more secular over the years and with that comes new ideas and views.

    I don't dispute what you say, Islam dates back to 1400 years ago. Yes, elements of the Religion will not be suited to modern society but the context in which they were written was for the time period the Religion came about. Yes, you can now argue the Religion is 'out-dated' but Islam is a way of life and can be implemented in today's society too. Additionally, a Muslim who looks down upon another Muslim is evidently not well accustomed to the concept of respect. I am a Muslim and hold no animosity towards women who do not wear a hijab, who am I to judge?

    The reality is, your argument of Muslims perception of women who do not wear the hijab is based on encounters online, which you have fabricated your generalisations upon.
    So you are a good person. Well done (I am serious). But if you now want to deny that there is a very large part of the Muslim community worldwide that does not share your view, you are in denial.

    Religion as we know it now (i.e. after the oh we had a terrible storm at sea, Posdeidon must have been angered) was always meant as a form of social control. Always. And Islam does that best. It literally asks its followers to submit. And that means it will always lead to people that hold different opinions than yours.

    I am not even going to acknowledge your last point, since it is complete rubbish.
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    (Original post by SteamboatMickey)
    Please, that was done with the intention of discriminating/harming them.

    I specifically said: "It's a little different if this person is threatening innocent people/harming themselves or others in anyway".

    A star of David on Jews in Nazi occupied areas = intention to harm (by first isolating) = a "little different" than someone just wanting to practise their faith harmlessly, and not being made to do so.
    And the point of women covering up in Islam is with the intention of discriminating against them. If you deny that, you don't understand Islam. Which in fact, many Muslims themselves don't. And as I said above, the only thing more sad than a Muslim girl having to cover up, is one who actually wants to. Whenever I hear such women, I can only think of 1984 by Orwell.
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    (Original post by inhuman)
    You like freedom of religion, fine. I like freedom to say religion is a disease.
    Good for you! *tips fedora*

    (Original post by inhuman)
    The only thing sadder than a Muslim woman covering up because she has to, is a Muslim woman wanting to cover up. Wanting to be a good little Muslim girl, covering up so that no mean man may be aroused by her body.
    The only thing sadder than an Islamophobic, Western cuck, is a pervert who can't stand women being in control of what they wear. If you wish to be aroused by other people's wives, that's your prerogative, just like it's the Muslim woman's to follow her religion.
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    [QUOTE=inhuman;66956052]So you are a good person. Well done (I am serious). But if you now want to deny that there is a very large part of the Muslim community worldwide that does not share your view, you are in denial.

    Religion as we know it now (i.e. after the oh we had a terrible storm at sea, Posdeidon must have been angered) was always meant as a form of social control. Always. And Islam does that best. It literally asks its followers to submit. And that means it will always lead to people that hold different opinions than yours.

    I am not even going to acknowledge your last point, since it is complete rubbish.[/QUO
    Thank you, haha. But in all honesty if you look at all aspects of society there are so many different groups, communities ect that hold different viewpoints. Even in secular society, not everyone is going to hold the same point of view are they? Humans are by their very nature unique, so I think we should accept that there will never be a value consensus. Btw, Religion, Islam specifically can be extremely positive on an individual. It gives you a sense of hope, comfort and inner contentment. (my view personally.)

    Also, I understand you're a very realistic person, and I respect your opinion. However, obviously we hold opposing views and there may not be a resolve, so we should just accept our differences.
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    (Original post by Dima-Blackburn)
    Good for you! *tips fedora*



    The only thing sadder than an Islamophobic, Western cuck, is a pervert who can't stand women being in control of what they wear. If you wish to be aroused by other people's wives, that's your prerogative, just like it's the Muslim woman's to follow her religion.
    You do know that in this particular discussion, cucks are the leftist betas that allow Muslim immigrants to rape their country's women. It's not just another insult you can throw around, it actually has a meaning, one which much like Islam, you don't understand

    And unlike your pervert males that get aroused by a bit of skin because they never get to see it in public, I can very well go to a beach and not get horny by all the hot girls because I am not sexually repressed by my religion.

    ps "aroused by other people's wives", too cute. You'd make a perfect little obedient *****, er sorry, wife.
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    (Original post by Hassanh)

    Thank you, haha. But in all honesty if you look at all aspects of society there are so many different groups, communities ect that hold different viewpoints. Even in secular society, not everyone is going to hold the same point of view are they? Humans are by their very nature unique, so I think we should accept that there will never be a value consensus. Btw, Religion, Islam specifically can be extremely positive on an individual. It gives you a sense of hope, comfort and inner contentment. (my view personally.)

    Also, I understand you're a very realistic person, and I respect your opinion. However, obviously we hold opposing views and there may not be a resolve, so we should just accept our differences.
    Fair enough.

    Have a good night.
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    (Original post by Dima-Blackburn)
    Sure it does. Contribution to society includes working, paying taxes, giving back to society in the form of charity work, etc. Obeying the laws, which are shaped by the prevailing cultural, is sufficient integration.

    Anything more and you defy personal liberty; drinking for example, is part of Irish culture. Should they make alcohol consumption compulsory for minorities who come from cultures that look down upon alcohol consumption?
    Utter BS, by your insane logic, if I travel to Japan and not commit crimes their, I am integrated in to Japanese society.

    I would not speak the language, not know or possibly even respect the customs but according to you, I am integrated

    You set a very low bar for what you consider integration.
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    (Original post by Dima-Blackburn)
    Good for you! *tips fedora*



    The only thing sadder than an Islamophobic, Western cuck, is a pervert who can't stand women being in control of what they wear. If you wish to be aroused by other people's wives, that's your prerogative, just like it's the Muslim woman's to follow her religion.
    You clearly do not know the meaning of the term "cuck".
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    Good on him for standing up against a restrictive and oppressive culture for the female sex


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    (Original post by BaconandSauce)
    I think France and her people have the right to decide what laws they have

    What if France is a boy... dont be transphobic -_-

    On a more serious/ on topic note
    I am Muslim, and in Shia Islam (2nd largest sect) we follow scholars on their teachings. Our scholars tell us that if we are not wanted in a country/ cannot freely practice our faith how we want to in a country without breaking their law, then we either comply with their rules or leave the country and live in one that does.

    I assume there's something like that in Sunni Islam but I'm not sure.

    Point is we Muslims cannot just go out into the world and expect everyone to accept us and pressure them into accepting us and our religion and tending to our needs. It doesnt work like that. Islam is not about that. We have to go, it's on us not them.

    It may be unfair, it may be 'islamophobic' to you but you have to respect it whether you like it or not.
    /rant
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    (Original post by inhuman)
    You did get that I was being sarcastic, right?
    My apologies. I deleted it above. Didn't click that it was you, and being sarcastic.
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    they wear it because of islam
    islam is misogynistic

    so it's quite rich to call it misogynist, and I don't even agree with the ban in the first place (as a libert.)
    it would be like calling forced marriages "anti love" - women who wear these, more often than not, as merely doing it because of fear, aren't they. they're from cultures where women are often killed for things like not wearing it.
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    There is no legitimate reason to ban it. That's only violating personal liberty and freedom.

    Obligating women to show their legs<<<<<
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    I managed 65 evolutions in one half-hour lucky egg cycle. Level 17 to 20. I have 4 lucky eggs left, but now it's 50k exp per level, kind of getting a lot now.
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    (Original post by BaconandSauce)
    Because it is the same thing sans religious connotation
    And how would one go about eliminating the religious connotation?
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    (Original post by MeMoiLove)
    And how would one go about eliminating the religious connotation?
    You can't (bit like saying how do you remove the religious connotation of a cross), Hence the ban.
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    If a Muslim woman has chosen to wear the burkini, it is surely misogynistic to remove that right from her.
 
 
 
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