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    (Original post by CherishFreedom)
    Statistic shows that only 29% of Christians disapprove of homosexuality.

    What do you say to this, or would you like to pick something else to deflect the attention to?
    Thanks for proving my point, just under a third of Christians are against homosexuality, should a third of Christians be deported for having 'incompatible beliefs'?
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    (Original post by alevelstresss)
    It's been said so many times before, democracy fundamentally supports freedom of speech, belief and religion.

    You're practically advocating for an authoritarian regime (like Nazi Germany) where freedom of belief and religion isn't allowed, which is far worse than what the very Muslims you are trying to incriminate propose.

    Do you see how backwards your argument is?
    We have every reason to fight ideologies like Islam.

    "Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them
    ."
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    (Original post by alevelstresss)
    It's been said so many times before, democracy fundamentally supports freedom of speech, belief and religion.

    You're practically advocating for an authoritarian regime (like Nazi Germany) where freedom of belief and religion isn't allowed, which is far worse than what the very Muslims you are trying to incriminate propose.

    Do you see how backwards your argument is?
    If you actually read my proposed solutions, they are not authoritarian, I actually explicitly stated that Muslims' rights must be respected and protected.

    So what are you trying to accuse me of again?
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    (Original post by CherishFreedom)
    If you actually read my proposed solutions, they are not authoritarian, I actually explicitly stated that Muslims' rights must be respected and protected.

    So what are you trying to accuse me of again?
    lol nope
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    (Original post by alevelstresss)
    Did you ignore the fact that 1.6 billion Muslims evidently don't go out and kill non-believers, or is Islam exempt from your interpretation of religions changing because its a 'dirty dirty foreign backwards culture'?
    Wholly irrelevant.

    As long as there is God's word telling people it's ok to do any number of atrocities, it will always be way too easy to influence people.
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    (Original post by inhuman)
    We have every reason to fight ideologies like Islam.

    [b]
    No you don't, given that 1.6 billion Muslims do not pose an active threat to us.

    Nazism on the other hand, posed an active threat to the entire world and democracy when it existed.

    You need to stop thinking in one dimension.
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    OK. From my personal point of view ,as a 48 year old white, Roman Catholic female I will say this. For most of my life, up until about, I don't know, say two years ago ,I never even thought about Islam or Muslims, in the same way I never even thought about Buddhists and Buddhism. They literally never crossed my mind. I certainly didn't have any negative thoughts about them or their religion. It was just another religion. I have always thought of people the world over as just people; all basically the same as each other. But with all the horrible things that have been happening, both to Muslims and none Muslims, this has forced me to look closely at Islam and Muslims, for the first time ever. And for the first time ever, I cannot help but think of them in a negative light.It is not my fault that I now feel this way. It is the fault of fanatics and extremists. But I am only human, with faults like everyone else. In think it is just part of human nature to react this way. When the IRA were bombing the hell out of both Northern Ireland [where I live] and England there was a massive increase in anti Irish feelings; against ANYONE with an Irish accent. It wasn't people's fault they felt this way. It was simply a natural human reaction to all the crap that was going on. All I would say is, once all this hell is over with and hopefully things get back to normal, eventually people that are angry and showing hatred now,those feelings will go away,and Muslims and Islam will go back to being at the back of people's minds once more, and not giving it any more thought than any thing or any one else.People in the UK and the States felt exactly the same way about most if not all German people during and in the years after the second world war. My grandmother hated Germans; even though she had never in her life met one. Fast forward 20 years after the war ended, and all those feelings had gone away. You have to allow non Muslims some time with this one. But that moving on time will only begin to start when the murdering stops.
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    (Original post by inhuman)
    Wholly irrelevant.

    As long as there is God's word telling people it's ok to do any number of atrocities, it will always be way too easy to influence people.
    Lol do you honestly think these extremists go out and kill foreigners in terrorist attacks because they think its the 'word of god'? No, they are broken, hateful people who want to legitimise their hateful feelings by concentrating it through extremism.
    They don't give a **** about Islam or Muslims, as far as they're concerned, it would be a propaganda victory for ISIS if 500 Muslims were murdered tomorrow, because it would generate radical sympathy for them.
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    (Original post by alevelstresss)
    Thanks for proving my point, just under a third of Christians are against homosexuality, should a third of Christians be deported for having 'incompatible beliefs'?
    Again, can I repeat, the problem is disparity of values. There will always be homophobes, but the prominence of homophobia within a religion is what is alarming. It means that Muslims, as a community, in general are more likely hold incompatible views with the rest of population.

    Our collective position as a country is to protect the rights of everyone, including gay people and woman. Where a community has a vastly differing view on the matter, it is not unusual to be alarmed. This is what I am stating all along. You cannot stop people from criticising Muslims in general because in general they are significantly different in their values compared to the country's native values.
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    (Original post by alevelstresss)
    No you don't, given that 1.6 billion Muslims do not pose an active threat to us.

    Nazism on the other hand, posed an active threat to the entire world and democracy when it existed.

    You need to stop thinking in one dimension.
    loooooooool one dimension?

    Is that your latest wannabe clever sounding insult?

    I don't give a rat's mother****ing ass about active or not. Nazism didn't pose an active threat to other countries until the moment they invaded Poland. And given that you are you, and you are not clever or know history, I will tell you that appeasement didn't work there.
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    (Original post by CherishFreedom)
    Again, can I repeat, the problem is disparity of values. There will always be homophobes, but the prominence of homophobia within a religion is what is alarming. It means that Muslims, as a community, in general are more likely hold incompatible views with the rest of population.

    Our collective position as a country is to protect the rights of everyone, including gay people and woman. Where a community has a vastly differing view on the matter, it is not unusual to be alarmed. This is what I am stating all along. You cannot stop people from criticising Muslims in general because in general they are significantly different in their values compared to the country's native values.
    You've failed to understand that homophobic views are fundamentally compatible with democracy.
    its when they start harming/abusing/killing gays that the problem begins.
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    Although islam could be called incompatible with western society (and it would be in its purest form - marrying children and what not), alevelstresss makes a good point that alienating ordinary, law abiding muslims doesn't improve the situation at all, it makes everything worse.

    Islam isn't going anywhere any time soon, get used to it.
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    (Original post by inhuman)
    loooooooool one dimension?

    Is that your latest wannabe clever sounding insult?

    I don't give a rat's mother****ing ass about active or not. Nazism didn't pose an active threat to other countries until the moment they invaded Poland. And given that you are you, and you are not clever or know history, I will tell you that appeasement didn't work there.
    educate yourself, Hitler invaded Czechoslovakia, the Sudetenland, the Rhineland, so many other places before Poland.

    he also actively persecuted Jews before the invasion of Poland

    you're clearly as dumb as I thought, welcome back to my block list, and forever this time.
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    (Original post by alevelstresss)
    educate yourself, Hitler invaded Czechoslovakia, the Sudetenland, the Rhineland, so many other places before Poland.

    he also actively persecuted Jews before the invasion of Poland

    you're clearly as dumb as I thought, welcome back to my block list, and forever this time.
    Oh **** you got me so good, forever on your block list. How can I live with that?

    "Invaded" the Rhineland, lel. Not to mention the Sudenteland was a German area in Czechoslovakia, but nice try listing both to make the list seem longer.
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    (Original post by alevelstresss)
    If Islam encourages hateful feelings, then how come my own personal experience of Muslim communities has been perhaps better than my experience of white communities in the UK?

    Its a myth that Islam promotes violence against every single westerner, it does condemn homosexuality and various other things, but the Quran isn't a literal book saying "Kill anyone who disagrees", in fact its quite the opposite.

    And no, the fundamentalists are not the best representatives of the ideology, they manipulate what the religion says to justify their hateful feelings. Otherwise we would live in a world with many more violent Muslims, but right now it is a tiny minority.
    Well actually the Quran does specifically state the verse "All non believers must convert or die" and that's a fact. So you're wrong it does basically say as you said "kill anyone that disagrees" with Islam.
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    (Original post by alevelstresss)
    What is wrong with holding 'backwards' views? So long as they aren't willing to act on it, there is no problem. In my opinion, many people in this country who voted Brexit, such as those who voted to leave and make us economically worse off for their own xenophobic/anti-immigrant views hold 'backwards views'.

    Find me a poll which says that "x% of Muslims would willingly go out and commit terrorist atrocities" and then I'll be worried.
    Definite troll and a good one aswell
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    Definite troll and a good one aswell
    call me a troll all you like but at least I don't incite religious hatred, which encourages Muslims to resort to radical views
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    (Original post by Harold Godwinson)
    Well actually the Quran does specifically state the verse "All non believers must convert or die" and that's a fact. So you're wrong it does basically say as you said "kill anyone that disagrees" with Islam.
    it does not explicitly say that, whether or not that is followed is down to human interpretation - the problem is people manipulating it and warping what it says, not the religion, given that 1.6 billion people evidently don't do that
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    (Original post by alevelstresss)
    You've failed to understand that homophobic views are fundamentally compatible with democracy.
    its when they start harming/abusing/killing gays that the problem begins.
    I am not saying that we should bully or tell people to believe a certain value whether they want it or not. But since you were wondering where the division lies, there it is.

    I have given you the statistics that:

    52% of Muslims are in favour of banning homosexuality.

    46% of terrorist-related arrests are on Muslims.

    I can't make you change your view clearly, but I'll just put the facts here so maybe you can subconsciously realise your obvious attempt to deflect from the problems that are right here in front of you.

    Just in case you want to apply your circular logic here because this seems to be the game you are playing, I have proposed a solution. The solutions are not based on hate, they are fair and demands fair distribution of resources to Muslim community and also explicitly stating that Muslims' rights must be respected and protected. But feel free to activate your defence mechanism and blindly accuse me of hating on Muslims and violating their rights.
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    (Original post by alevelstresss)
    No you don't, given that 1.6 billion Muslims do not pose an active threat to us.

    Nazism on the other hand, posed an active threat to the entire world and democracy when it existed.

    You need to stop thinking in one dimension.
    And you need to pull your head from you're backside, if that's what you truly believe about Islam. They are just as much I threat as Nazi Germany was. The nazis were after world domination, Islam wants the same thing, a Muslim world.
 
 
 
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