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    (Original post by coldplasma)
    No, you are completely misunderstanding why that happens. That happens because employers do target universities, but they definitely do not do it for the reasons you think they do. They do it because it's cheaper to hire someone who already has all the specialised knowledge they need, rather than having to spend money training them on the job.
    I am thinking of jobs in banking or consulting or law where this is not the case. And more generally so in 'general' graduate jobs in management and the like. It is not normal that your university education prepares you with a specialist skillset that applies to specific jobs. This is certainly not representative of the landscape as a whole.
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    (Original post by Athematica)
    I am thinking of jobs in banking or consulting or law where this is not the case. And more generally so in 'general' graduate jobs in management and the like. It is not normal that your university education prepares you with a specialist skillset that applies to specific jobs. This is certainly not representative of the landscape as a whole.
    Okay, I'm referring to basically all STEM disciplines, where it is definitely representative.
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    (Original post by john2054)
    Well from what everyone else here is saying, they are much harder to get. I actually have a place on a masters at notts, which is better than derby, for 2017, so i will soon find out if this is true!
    So if it's harder to get, then how are they equal?
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    (Original post by coldplasma)
    Okay, I'm referring to basically all STEM disciplines, where it is definitely representative.
    Besides engineering disciplines, I think it is still incorrect. Give me an example outside of professional engineering degrees that do have specialist courses that are targeted specifically because it is a niche like naval engineering at Southampton.

    I cant think of an employer that looks specifically for physics graduates (just bachelors) or chemistry or the like at certain universities. Could you give me examples? Software is one that it might happen in frequently -- again, a form of engineering.
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    (Original post by Athematica)
    Besides engineering disciplines, I think it is still incorrect. Give me an example outside of professional engineering degrees that do have specialist courses that are targeted specifically because it is a niche or in software engineering where this might be something that happens also for computer scientists.
    Give me one that does not.
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    (Original post by coldplasma)
    Give me one that does not.
    No, no. You made a discrete claim and so the burden of proof is on you to substantiate. Russell's Teapot is something you might want to read up on. You might claim there is a celestial teapot orbiting the sun between the the earth and mars but it isn't on me to prove it doesn't exist.
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    (Original post by Athematica)
    No, no. You made a discrete claim and so the burden of proof is on you to substantiate. Russell's Teapot is an axion you might want to read up on. You might claim there is a celestial teapot orbiting the sun between the the earth and mars but it isn't on me to prove it doesn't exist.
    Oh I get it you're going to plagiarise a bunch of logical fallacies to distract from the point you're avoiding arguing. Well, okay, here's one. Physics, which can be highly specialised depending on the university you go to, and companies/organisations definitely do target certain universities because of those specialties.
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    (Original post by coldplasma)
    Oh I get it you're going to plagiarise a bunch of logical fallacies to distract from the point you're avoiding arguing. Well, okay, here's one. Physics, which can be highly specialised depending on the university you go to, and companies/organisations definitely do target certain universities because of those specialties.
    Who and where?

    No distraction. You said all STEM subjects. I'm challenging your assertion.
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    (Original post by ML8020)
    I think only very few people recognised a point in the previous discussions...

    The assumption that two candidates who went to Cambridge and Lancaster (No offence, just using them as examples as mentioned in above) have the same skill set/ability does not stand.

    Many people said that it wouldn't matter where did you go to university when finding a job as employers "do not care", it's all about your ability. However, we should be reminded that the courses in Cambridge are more difficult, have a higher workload and have a better quality of teaching so they can prepare you for your future career better. One who studied in Cambridge is likely to gain more knowledge and become more prepared for a job.

    That is why universities do matter. Not because of prestige, but because usually the more prestigious unis have a better quality of teaching (which is what their prestige is made up of). As a result, graduates from more prestigious unis are likely to have better job prospects as they are better equipped.

    Edit: But of course, if you're talking about the abstract title "RG uni", then of course this title itself won't be able to benefit you by any means. Some non-RG unis like Bath, Lancaster or St Andrews are far better than those weak RGs like Cardiff, Liverpool etc. In the end it's the quality of teaching/difficulty of course that matters.
    Better equipped for what?

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    (Original post by Princepieman)
    Better equipped for what?

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    Better equipped with the skill sets that are required for a job.
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    (Original post by ML8020)
    Better equipped with the skill sets that are required for a job.
    Which skillset and which jobs

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    (Original post by ML8020)
    Better equipped with the skill sets that are required for a job.
    Most degrees aren't actually designed to equip you directly for work. They aren't vocational.
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    (Original post by Athematica)
    Who and where?

    No distraction. You said all STEM subjects. I'm challenging your assertion.
    I know that specifically, from my university, graduates have been sought out by the likes of CERN because of the heavy emphasis placed on particle physics at Southampton. I can't think of a single STEM degree that does not have some kind of specialty like that that is emphasised at universities. Do you think any company in the field of say Computational Biology, either private or public, is going to hire graduates who know nothing about that field? No, they will target the universities that do specialise in that. I mean, literally the only way for me to prove my point is to enumerate through every single STEM degree and specialty which you know full well is not reasonable or practical. But, I have provided you with some examples, so feel free to provide a 'general type STEM degree without special knowledge'.
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    (Original post by Princepieman)
    Which skillset and which jobs

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    I have a feeling you're just messing around lol
    Apologises if you want a serious discussion. It's a shame that I can't feel your passion through your words.
    (Original post by jneill)
    Most degrees aren't actually designed to equip you directly for work. They aren't vocational.
    Fair enough. I am a Engineering applicant so my view is based on STEM subjects as well. For subjects like Arts or Humanities, you may have a point.
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    (Original post by coldplasma)
    I know that specifically, from my university, graduates have been sought out by the likes of CERN because of the heavy emphasis placed on particle physics at Southampton. I can't think of a single STEM degree that does not have some kind of specialty like that that is emphasised at universities. Do you think any company in the field of say Computational Biology, either private or public, is going to hire graduates who know nothing about that field? No, they will target the universities that do specialise in that. I mean, literally the only way for me to prove my point is to enumerate through every single STEM degree and specialty which you know full well is not reasonable or practical. But, I have provided you with some examples, so feel free to provide a 'general type STEM degree without special knowledge'.
    It is generally graduate level courses that are sought after. Scientists are notoriously difficult to hire in their industries as undergraduate degree holders. The particle physicists I'm sure will have been MSc- and not BSc- holders

    But thank you for the elaboration. I had hoped maybe you have data to back your claims. I could be talking to anybody about anything here. It is not convincing.
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    (Original post by Athematica)
    It is generally graduate level courses that are sought after. Scientists are notoriously difficult to hire in their industries as undergraduate degree holders. The particle physicists I'm sure will have been MSc and not BSc.

    But thank you for the elaboration. I had hoped maybe you have data to back your claims. I could be talking to anybody about anything here. It is not convincing.
    The guy I'm think of specifically did not have an MSc, only a 4 year Bachelors + Masters. But all degrees will have the option be specialised near the end, just some degrees do not offer certain specialisations because of course it's the research fellows in the department who actually teach it, and no researchers of a certain discipline at university = no teaching of that discipline. I'm sure the guy I'm thinking of has probably got his PhD now because of his employment at CERN, but he did not join them with a post-graduate qualification.
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    (Original post by ML8020)
    Fair enough. I am a Engineering applicant so my view is based on STEM subjects as well. For subjects like Arts or Humanities, you may have a point.
    And specifically for engineering the university "prestige" definitely matters little. If anything, some engineering employers are known not to favour Oxbridge applicants...

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    (Original post by jneill)
    And specifically for engineering the university "prestige" definitely matters little. If anything, some engineering employers are known not to favour Oxbridge applicants...

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    To be honest, a lot of engineering employers don't get a whole lot of oxbridge applicants in the first place. Unless they're like Google or the like.
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    (Original post by jneill)
    And specifically for engineering the university "prestige" definitely matters little. If anything, some engineering employers are known not to favour Oxbridge applicants...

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    I do agree that "university prestige" does not mean anything. My view is the course contents in Oxbridge (and Imperial) are likely to be more difficult and the workload is higher. The unique tutorial/supervision system also plays an important role in developing students' understanding. These two factors can lead to more knowledgable graduates and therefore better job prospects.
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    (Original post by jneill)
    And specifically for engineering the university "prestige" definitely matters little. If anything, some engineering employers are known not to favour Oxbridge applicants...

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    ^This. Oxford's a stagnant pond as far as corners of my field are concerned. Some of the teaching staff from my degree in the mid-80s are still there and the only new lecturers recruited in the past fifteen years have been graduates of that department. It's an elaborate job creation scheme, but nobody in the outside world would touch them. Prestige of the uni name is irrelevant.
 
 
 

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