Trump & Brexit is what happens when you smear all who disagree as racist Watch

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#181
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#181
(Original post by panjeets 3incher)
He's a radical progressive who wants a faster pace of change than what we are currently experiencing. The Cameronite Conservative party was a milder form of progressive politics, with them and the Corbynite Labour party flanking the progressive establishment, Trump on the other hand is not a conservative at all, he's a neo-Reactionary who wants to move in a totally different direction to Corbyn, Cameron, Blair and Miliband.
He wants a similar type of economic change that Trump was proposing.
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#182
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#182
(Original post by Foo.mp3)
In charge of a podium? Definitely. An economy? Not so much :woo:
Why not?
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Little Popcorns
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#183
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#183
(Original post by hazzer1998)
Sorry , I forgot i must feel guilty about being white
Who invited you? I never said anything about racists...
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#184
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#184
(Original post by Foo.mp3)
The powers that be have us up **** creek without a paddle, fiscally speaking, and those two would have us up there sans bateau! :captain:
Any more so that Blair/Cameron who's failed economic/political models have left the working poor in this country furious?
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username878267
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#185
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#185
(Original post by hazzer1998)
Sorry , I forgot i must feel guilty about being white
What are your political leanings?

What would Labour have to do to get your vote? I'm genuinely interested to try and understand how the left in this country can get back in touch with peoples' concerns.
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GaelicBolshevik
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#186
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#186
(Original post by Damien96)
When presented with counter-arguements, shouting 'racist' louder or building bigger placards does not end with the opinion going away. It will only hardens the stance and ferments further resentment.

Trump and Corbyn are what happens when your all you have is a nauseating masochism that shuts down conversation. Trump is as much a product of the left as he is the right.

http://thesatedire.com/news/world-ne...gger-placards/
I agree but it's not the left or the right, a lot of it has to do with the media and the way their reporting tends to influence people. When I said that I'd support a Brexit but not an Irish exit from the EU because they're completely different countries, my friend called me a hypocrite and kept refusing to listen to the entirely logical justification for my view and blamed me for Brexit.
It's not just that, but people wanted change.

And instead of listening to people's logical arguments and calmly and politely debated with them or pointed out to them solutions, they shamed them. Just like Cameron calling those who opposed bombing Syria "terrorist sympathisers".
Name:  HarryLeslieSmith WW2 Veteran cameron syria terrorist sympathisers.jpg
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713Wave
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#187
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Personally, I think Russell Brand PERFECTLY describes and explains the reasons why Brexit and Donald Trump becoming President, have happened.

He takes a neutral stance and is not (in this case) siding with the 'left' or 'right' wingers.

here it is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3Ou5uFFn8Q
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Damien96
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#188
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#188
(Original post by Bornblue)
I'm not saying Corbyn is the answer, but he at least recognises the anger of the working classes. He recognises that Labour doesn't stand up for workers anymore. The centre left are in denial. The likes of Jess Phillips just accuse anyone who voted for Trump as being sexist.

I don't actually think Corbyn is a SJW. I'd argue it's more the middle class centre left who are the SJWs. Corbyn is an old fashioned leftist.

A bit like Sanders. America wanted someone to take a sledgehammer to the system and the Democrats chose someone who represents everything they disliked about the system.

What are your political leanings?
He is an old school leftist but old school leftists had a virulent strain of deluded wishful thinking, a narcissism of small differences and a childish compulsion to destroy the system and democracy. His politics comes from that place. Don't get your own way? Build a bigger placard, shout a little louder.

Sanders had ideals but was also a pragmatist in the most positive sense. In other words he was a grown up and a politician. I like him very much.

I'm a liberal with socialist leanings. I believe in strong social safety nets and cultivating the primal greed of capitalism for the greater good. I strongly believe in secularism and democracy, with all its faults, contradictions and potential.
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Damien96
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#189
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#189
(Original post by DMcGovern)
I agree but it's not the left or the right, a lot of it has to do with the media and the way their reporting tends to influence people. When I said that I'd support a Brexit but not an Irish exit from the EU because they're completely different countries, my friend called me a hypocrite and kept refusing to listen to the entirely logical justification for my view and blamed me for Brexit.
It's not just that, but people wanted change.

And instead of listening to people's logical arguments and calmly and politely debated with them or pointed out to them solutions, they shamed them. Just like Cameron calling those who opposed bombing Syria "terrorist sympathisers".
Name:  HarryLeslieSmith WW2 Veteran cameron syria terrorist sympathisers.jpg
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Yeah I agree, particularly about the terms left/right.

I use them as a shorthand when making a general point because it would be too complicated, and take too much time, to get into the nuances of political stances ion 2016.

Left and right are increasingly redundant terms.
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username878267
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#190
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#190
(Original post by Damien96)
He is an old school leftist but old school leftists had a virulent strain of deluded wishful thinking, a narcissism of small differences and a childish compulsion to destroy the system and democracy. His politics comes from that place. Don't get your own way? Build a bigger placard, shout a little louder.

Sanders had ideals but was also a pragmatist in the most positive sense. In other words he was a grown up and a politician. I like him very much.

I'm a liberal with socialist leanings. I believe in strong social safety nets and cultivating the primal greed of capitalism for the greater good. I strongly believe in secularism and democracy, with all its faults, contradictions and potential.
Corbyn never wanted to be leader really. He was just sick and tired of hollow 'moderates' demanding that Labour becomes more right wing and loses its principles. They were obsessed with the 'centre ground'.Look how well choosing the centrist Clinton has been for the Democrats.


For years and years the working classes have been telling us how they hate the current economic system. How globalisation is destroying their jobs and communities and we haven't listened and haven't changed our embrace of that system.

Corbyn, for all his faults at least recognises that anger. He may not have solutions, but like Sanders he sees how the left has lost the working class. By offering no alternative whatsoever. He doesn't have the personal qualities to be leader but I don't take massive issues with his views. He is less obsessed with identity, SJW politics and more interested in leftist economics.
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Aj12
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#191
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#191
(Original post by Bornblue)
I'm not saying Corbyn is the answer, but he at least recognises the anger of the working classes. He recognises that Labour doesn't stand up for workers anymore. The centre left are in denial. The likes of Jess Phillips just accuse anyone who voted for Trump as being sexist.

I don't actually think Corbyn is a SJW. I'd argue it's more the middle class centre left who are the SJWs. Corbyn is an old fashioned leftist.

A bit like Sanders. America wanted someone to take a sledgehammer to the system and the Democrats chose someone who represents everything they disliked about the system.

What are your political leanings?
Does Corbyn recognise working class anger though? Sure he shows a feel for the economic feel, but absolutely none of the social element. Immigration was the real concern for Trump voters, and immigration is a huge issue for Labour's typical base. Check out the exit polls and what they say about top issues for Trump voters. Corbyn has shown a complete deafness on immigration, He does not support immigration limits and has toyed with the idea of blocking the invocation of Article 50. Given that a chunk of Labour's base voted clearly for leave and have immigration as a major concern I don't think he is in touch with working class anger. Corbyn actually seems to be pushing away former Labour voters.

When you look at some of the data, the results of the EU referendum, Clinton's defeat and various other polling data it seems like few on the left really have a clue right now. I don't think even Sanders is getting it right. Most of Trump's voters were angry about immigration, that's why they voted for him, in the general and in the primaries. Sanders support came from voters angry about income inequality, which barely registered with Trump voters. The left can move towards more taxation and dealing with inequality, but I don't think that will solve the problem and magically reconnect them with their base. More needs to be done around immigration and social issues.
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Dodgypirate
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#192
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#192
(Original post by Aj12)
Does Corbyn recognise working class anger though?
Of course he doesn't :lol:

If he did, Remain would have won.
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username878267
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#193
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#193
(Original post by Aj12)
Does Corbyn recognise working class anger though? Sure he shows a feel for the economic feel, but absolutely none of the social element. Immigration was the real concern for Trump voters, and immigration is a huge issue for Labour's typical base. Check out the exit polls and what they say about top issues for Trump voters. Corbyn has shown a complete deafness on immigration, He does not support immigration limits and has toyed with the idea of blocking the invocation of Article 50. Given that a chunk of Labour's base voted clearly for leave and have immigration as a major concern I don't think he is in touch with working class anger. Corbyn actually seems to be pushing away former Labour voters.

When you look at some of the data, the results of the EU referendum, Clinton's defeat and various other polling data it seems like few on the left really have a clue right now. I don't think even Sanders is getting it right. Most of Trump's voters were angry about immigration, that's why they voted for him, in the general and in the primaries. Sanders support came from voters angry about income inequality, which barely registered with Trump voters. The left can move towards more taxation and dealing with inequality, but I don't think that will solve the problem and magically reconnect them with their base. More needs to be done around immigration and social issues.
I think that the vast majority of issues, including social issues are down to economics.
It's no coincidence that poorer people are more opposed to immigration. It's no coincidence that poorer people were more opposed to the EU. It's no surprise that they are often more attached to their community and their country.

If you are a middle class, university graduate living in a nice house with a nice job and can send your kids to a nice school, then immigration won't affect you. But to people who have none of that, they find purpose and meaning in nationalism.

People's anger at immigration is part of their larger anger at globalisation and neoliberalism. Their towns and communities have been left behind. Their jobs have been moved abroad to China, or they have been replaced by machines, or corporations use mass immigration to exploit their wages. There are few opportunities for them and their public services are having greater demands placed on them by immigration. Meanwhile they hear about how the economy is 'growing' yet they don't feel it. They've been left out of the 'recovery'

A certain amount of Trump's appeal was his hardline anti-immigrant policy, but a lot of his appeal, especially in key rust belt states was his anti-globalisation message. He went to old industrial towns in Michigan and Ohio and promised to protect American industries, rip up free trade agreements and placed tariffs on Chinese imports. That was music to the ears of the working classes.

Corbyn recognises this anger. Anger with an economic system that has left the working class communities behind. I'm not saying he has the answers but he at least understands that the left's embrace of centre ground, neolilberal globalisation has devastated the working classes. Many on the centre left like the Clintonites and Blairites do not.

Sanders appealed to voters in the rust belt states and is actually viewed upon favourably by many Trump voters. He was promising, like Trump, to take a sledgehammer to the establishment.


TLDR; many hard right views on immigration are a product of a failed economic system.
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anarchism101
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#194
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#194
(Original post by TastelessGum)
That is free speech. You're free to be a fool and an ignorant bigot. But if others call you out on being those things, they're exercising the same freedom you did. Don't complain.
Yup, I've noticed that seems to he lost on so many righties. Along with complaining about 'political correctness' and asserting a right to be offensive, before demanding that people refrain from using particular words (like racist or homophobic) because they (essentially) feel offended by them.

Posted from TSR Mobile
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Damien96
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#195
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#195
(Original post by Bornblue)
Corbyn never wanted to be leader really. He was just sick and tired of hollow 'moderates' demanding that Labour becomes more right wing and loses its principles. They were obsessed with the 'centre ground'.Look how well choosing the centrist Clinton has been for the Democrats.


For years and years the working classes have been telling us how they hate the current economic system. How globalisation is destroying their jobs and communities and we haven't listened and haven't changed our embrace of that system.

Corbyn, for all his faults at least recognises that anger. He may not have solutions, but like Sanders he sees how the left has lost the working class. By offering no alternative whatsoever. He doesn't have the personal qualities to be leader but I don't take massive issues with his views. He is less obsessed with identity, SJW politics and more interested in leftist economics.
He calls Hezbollah and Hamas friends, his shadow chancellor suggested we should praise IRA bombers, he thinks we can negotiate with IS and he continuously acts as if he's being harrassed when asked routine questions about his policies. He's a western masochist with a victim mentality, in other words, classic SJW.
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Damien96
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#196
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#196
(Original post by Bornblue)
Corbyn never wanted to be leader really. He was just sick and tired of hollow 'moderates' demanding that Labour becomes more right wing and loses its principles. They were obsessed with the 'centre ground'.Look how well choosing the centrist Clinton has been for the Democrats.


For years and years the working classes have been telling us how they hate the current economic system. How globalisation is destroying their jobs and communities and we haven't listened and haven't changed our embrace of that system.

Corbyn, for all his faults at least recognises that anger. He may not have solutions, but like Sanders he sees how the left has lost the working class. By offering no alternative whatsoever. He doesn't have the personal qualities to be leader but I don't take massive issues with his views. He is less obsessed with identity, SJW politics and more interested in leftist economics.
I'm working class, my family are working class, I know and am from the working class. He represents the middle class chins trokers who like to pretend they care about what the working class think. He is popular with 1980's comedians who think that swearing in a mock Cockney accent while deriding the working classes is speaking for the everyman.

Apart from being deeply patronising, it's all a lie, and why Labour are no longer a viable opposition party.
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ckingalt
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#197
(Original post by Mathemagicien)
Imma just leave this here



Can't find source lol, but similar here
https://www.surveymonkey.com/electio...ials-white-cps

Absolutely deplorable.
Minorities voting to promote their interests is "social progress". White people voting to promote their interests is "deplorable".
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username878267
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#198
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#198
(Original post by Damien96)
I'm working class, my family are working class, I know and am from the working class. He represents the middle class chins trokers who like to pretend they care about what the working class think. He is popular with 1980's comedians who think that swearing in a mock Cockney accent while deriding the working classes is speaking for the everyman.

Apart from being deeply patronising, it's all a lie, and why Labour are no longer a viable opposition party.
But he recognises why people are angry. He recognise that they have been screwed over by globalisation and neoliberalism and are crying out for change. He recognises that the reason trump won was not because voters are sexist or racist but because they were fed up with politics as normal.

He may not have the solutions but unlike so many on the centre left he recognises that embracing right wing, neoliberal economics has alienated the working classes.
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Damien96
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#199
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#199
(Original post by Bornblue)
But he recognises why people are angry. He recognise that they have been screwed over by globalisation and neoliberalism and are crying out for change. He recognises that the reason trump won was not because voters are sexist or racist but because they were fed up with politics as normal.

He may not have the solutions but unlike so many on the centre left he recognises that embracing right wing, neoliberal economics has alienated the working classes.
He recognises that as an opportunity to push his illiberal ideas on a desperate people and no one's buying it. If the political situation was different he would not change his policies. In other words, he's a deluded idealogue and not offering an alternative based on the suffering of the working classes, at least not of this century.
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username878267
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#200
(Original post by Damien96)
He recognises that as an opportunity to push his illiberal ideas on a desperate people and no one's buying it. If the political situation was different he would not change his policies. In other words, he's a deluded idealogue and not offering an alternative based on the suffering of the working classes, at least not of this century.
Are the centre left offering an alternative though?
What was Hialry's pitch, 'vote for me and everything will stay the same'? She offered no change whatsoever in an election when so many people were crying out for change.

While many on the centre left have accused Trump voters of being deplorables, the likes of Sanders, Owen Jones, Corbyn etc have at least recognised that the reason Trump won was because so many are fed up with the prevailing economic system. So many on the centre-left don't realise that. They just continue to assert that the left becoming more and more economically right wing is somehow a golden ticket to electablity.
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