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    (Original post by vienna95)
    *sighs at the sound of that broken record*
    Well they really arent doing so well at present, and thats from a non-partisan perspective. Howard is an interesting choice but perhaps not the best. Certainly less then 200 parliamentary seats for a party which considers itself to be the major opposition is not a good state of affairs, for either the Tories or British politics in general (the need for a credible Opposition is important, and it falls to Howard to turn the Tories into one).
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    (Original post by Unregistered)
    You know...deep down in your heart that you are denying what a bad state the tories are in.
    if you listen to anyone on the subject they realise that while there were and are unity problems, there is a genuine belief, certainly in business, politics and the press, that a leader such as Michael Howard can actually revive the party attitude and has done so already
    the Conservatives are equal with Labour in the polls and only yesterday we heard from the CBI who said that they were behind the Tories and then from the newspapers who actually believe that Howard will win the next election, purely because, as everyone knows, once momentum is reached, the papers will swing Tory and against Blair. this is mirrored by this mornings press.
    more indicative is the fact the Blair's own press office has come out with fear-induced praise for Mr.Howard, and MPs alike are very much aware that when the Hutton Inquiry issue returns, Mr.Howard will have a field day on Tony. this is after all what the public wanted and he is due.
    there are problems, but this idea that the whole party is a shambles is plain ridiculous, the only question mark is, will the Tories be able to get a 10.4% swing and win the next general election?
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    (Original post by NikNak)
    **apologises to the mods**

    Vienna95, you are the most annoying person i have ever come across. You obviously have your head so far up your own ass that you don't consider anyone elses views. You are one stuck-up cow and quite frankly you disgust me.

    Now isn't it better now we have cleared the air?

    Many Thanks,
    Niknak.
    thanks for the personal remarks. something ive always abstained from but you cant expect everyone else to uphold the same decency even if it is just online.

    and thats in relation to what?

    my comic disbelief that as someone who supports nationalist ideologies i can be compared to the BNP?
    that i spare them the humiliation by letting them find out what nationalism, a broad thing in itself, actually encompasses?
    that i have to watch as this turns into another arent the tories pathetic argument?
    i cannot see where you can draw the conclusion that i dont consider anyone else views?
    can you enlighten me?
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    (Original post by Lord Huntroyde)
    No offence Vienna, I quite like you, but this post is very funny.
    i know..
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    (Original post by Unregistered)
    Vienna is ok, but her discussion/argument style isn't very accomplished.
    well, seeing as that is the case, perhaps you can give me some examples...(i think this is the 500th time ive asked this of someone)
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    (Original post by Unregistered)
    Well they really arent doing so well at present, and thats from a non-partisan perspective. Howard is an interesting choice but perhaps not the best. Certainly less then 200 parliamentary seats for a party which considers itself to be the major opposition is not a good state of affairs, for either the Tories or British politics in general (the need for a credible Opposition is important, and it falls to Howard to turn the Tories into one).
    well i agree that is certainly a neutral perspective and i while i may be more optimistic on certain points, i would agree. thankfully, someone has risen above the tory-baiting and bad mouthing.

    (Original post by vienna95)
    thanks for the personal remarks. something ive always abstained from but you cant expect everyone else to uphold the same decency even if it is just online.

    and thats in relation to what?

    my comic disbelief that as someone who supports nationalist ideologies i can be compared to the BNP?
    that i spare them the humiliation by letting them find out what nationalism, a broad thing in itself, actually encompasses?
    that i have to watch as this turns into another arent the tories pathetic argument?
    i cannot see where you can draw the conclusion that i dont consider anyone else views?
    can you enlighten me?
    Tell me what your idea of Nationalist principles are then. Then compare them to the BNPs 'manifesto' on their website www.bnp.org.uk

    Some funny extracts:

    Whilst we do not believe that the current wave of asylum seekers have any right to be in Britain, while they are here we will insist that benefits provided by the local community are repaid by asylum seekers being put to work to clean up the streets and carry out other tasks on behalf of the local community. This must not be at the cost of cleaning jobs at present held by local labour – there is plenty of squalor to be tidied up.

    The BNP will end the scandal of council properties which are deemed substandard being left empty while our own people are homeless, only to have thousands spent on them to provide top grade accommodation for asylum seekers.

    While the dumping of asylum seekers on our communities is fundamentally the fault of the Government, BNP councillors will do everything in their power to prevent asylum seekers being dumped in our areas.

    With official figures showing that whites make up the majority of the victims of racist hate crime, BNP councillors will press for a council-funded awareness campaign to inform whites of their rights to have racist attacks on them recorded as such and treated by the police with the added seriousness they reserve for such hate crimes.

    We will press the council and the police to enforce all rules and laws without fear or favour. BNP councillors will end the present policy of ignoring behaviour by members of certain minority groups which would be stamped on if engaged in by members of the majority population.

    Get my point Vienna? These are nationalist principles.

    (Original post by Lord Huntroyde)
    You wait until the leader of the Conservative Party is the Rt Hon edders, MP.
    Seeing as you come from a grammar school, you will never understand how much an advantage you have over people like me, from state schools.
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    (Original post by Unregistered)
    Seeing as you come from a grammar school, you will never understand how much an advantage you have over people like me, from state schools.
    its not that much of an advantage; i went to a state secondary/6th form college and got on fine.

    (Original post by edders)
    its not that much of an advantage; i went to a state secondary/6th form college and got on fine.
    Did you ever go to a grammar school and see the difference though?
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    (Original post by Unregistered)
    Did you ever go to a grammar school and see the difference though?
    well no but as i got good results i dont think i could have done much better anyway (qualifications wise). i might have enjoyed it more at a grammar though.
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    (Original post by Unregistered)
    Tell me what your idea of Nationalist principles are then. Then compare them to the BNPs 'manifesto' on their website www.bnp.org.uk

    Some funny extracts:

    Whilst we do not believe that the current wave of asylum seekers have any right to be in Britain, while they are here we will insist that benefits provided by the local community are repaid by asylum seekers being put to work to clean up the streets and carry out other tasks on behalf of the local community. This must not be at the cost of cleaning jobs at present held by local labour – there is plenty of squalor to be tidied up.
    how is that nationalism?

    The BNP will end the scandal of council properties which are deemed substandard being left empty while our own people are homeless, only to have thousands spent on them to provide top grade accommodation for asylum seekers.
    that in fact is a very real problem.

    While the dumping of asylum seekers on our communities is fundamentally the fault of the Government, BNP councillors will do everything in their power to prevent asylum seekers being dumped in our areas.
    they are against mass-immigration, as is a large percentage of this country, and the conservative party. their methods of dealing with it are less popular.

    With official figures showing that whites make up the majority of the victims of racist hate crime, BNP councillors will press for a council-funded awareness campaign to inform whites of their rights to have racist attacks on them recorded as such and treated by the police with the added seriousness they reserve for such hate crimes.
    nationalism?

    We will press the council and the police to enforce all rules and laws without fear or favour. BNP councillors will end the present policy of ignoring behaviour by members of certain minority groups which would be stamped on if engaged in by members of the majority population.
    sounds like equality to me, but bearing in mind the real attitude of the BNP i wouldnt take much notice.

    Get my point Vienna? These are nationalist principles.
    i see you are against the BNP, as am i. i dont see how you can strictly relate me or a party that i am interested in such as the Swiss UDP with the BNP or Haider.......
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    Criminal Justice reforms
    Blunketts ID card proposals that Blair will go for
    Recognition of crackdown on mass immigration
    3-strikes and your out policy for offenders
    Tougher penal sentences.
    Ban on handguns
    Its true to say that Howard's policies as Home Secretary and now Blunkett's ones are very similar, but then again Blunkett is a very right wing in Labour terms. Other that this, Tory and Labour policies are very different and with Howard as leader, there will a starker choice:

    Tax and spend
    Reduce tax and reduce spend

    Depends what position you're in as to who you will vote for.
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    (Original post by Lord Huntroyde)
    I can stereotype a Labour voter:

    Lives in Liverpool
    Is a dock-worker
    Eats coal for tea
    Main social gathering point is a pub
    Reads the Socialist worker
    Has no real education
    Has an impossible to understand accent
    Has an incredibly large family
    Refers to family members of 'Our kid'
    Blames other people for his lack of money
    Has a very narrow view of politics; does not understand all the concepts fully.
    One of the target areas for Labour in 1997 was to win over the middle classes and big business.

    Surely all stereotypes - left and right - are nowadays more blurred? You can get 'poor Tories' and 'posh Labour'.
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    (Original post by pkonline)
    Its true to say that Howard's policies as Home Secretary and now Blunkett's ones are very similar, but then again Blunkett is a very right wing in Labour terms. Other that this, Tory and Labour policies are very different and with Howard as leader, there will a starker choice:

    Tax and spend
    Reduce tax and reduce spend

    Depends what position you're in as to who you will vote for.
    Lowering of taxes is a big winner especially in the media. I dont think this can be automatically linked to an immediate reduction in spending, as anyone who knows the complexity of fiscal policy will know.
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    (Original post by Unregistered)
    Although I dont agree with how some foreigners are taking advantage of our benefits and healthcare systems, I wouldnt verge on nationalism. That is very WWII.

    Join the BNP, they are the most credible nationaist party you could ever get .. and thats saying sumthing about nationalist policies.
    Vienna95 has proven to be a one issue voter. Let's respect that !
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    (Original post by pkonline)
    One of the target areas for Labour in 1997 was to win over the middle classes and big business.

    Surely all stereotypes - left and right - are nowadays more blurred? You can get 'poor Tories' and 'posh Labour'.
    exactly my point. why cant we discuss the policies instead of constantly referring to Tory stereotype bashing.

    (Original post by vienna95)
    exactly my point. why cant we discuss the policies instead of constantly referring to Tory stereotype bashing.
    Because Tory stereotype bashing is relevant when it comes to who people vote for.
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    (Original post by pkonline)
    Vienna95 has proven to be a one issue voter. Let's respect that !
    ive already outlined that my principles are a mixed bag of nationalism, libertarianism and conservatism. i have no interest in the BNP. or comments regarding the BNP as a template for nationalism or nationalist ideals.
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    exactly my point. why cant we discuss the policies instead of constantly referring to Tory stereotype bashing.
    Agreed. Spoils real-issue politics.
 
 
 
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