POST HERE For Discussion About The DEATH OF OSAMA BIN LADEN (Updated) Watch

Poll: Osama's death?
He was killed on the 1st of may. (121)
46.36%
He was killed earlyer than the 1st of may (65)
24.9%
He is still alive (37)
14.18%
He is a myth (38)
14.56%
moonkatt
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#2061
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#2061
(Original post by MovingOn)
In that case it seems there should have been other forces present to carry out the arrest. I'm not sure what you mean by firefight; Osama was unarmed and no American seals were harmed.
There was a firefight, they have said there was a 40 minute firefight in the press account of events, no Americans were harmed becase THEY DIDNT GET SHOT. They were enganged with fire from rpg's and kalashnikovs, how the hell do you expect them to deal with it? Tickle them? Theyre special forces, theyre not going to aim for an arrest when the people theyre trying to capture are trying to kill them. The way you win a firefight by putting more rounds down than the enemy, which equates to killing them all if none surrender, if they had reason to believe that Osama was armed then they will have killed him.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13257330
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Alison1992
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#2062
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#2062
(Original post by oloo17)
omg ur the first person who has exact same gcses as me
haha *highfive*
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Alison1992
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#2063
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#2063
(Original post by metalthrashin'mad)
That is exactly what I would have written
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Left Hand Drive
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#2064
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#2064
(Original post by el scampio)
Yeah right!

There are no pictures because it wasn't him in that compound/house. This was all just a big propaganda exercise.

Obama is officially a bigger, more evil assh*le than that retarded cowboy bloke they had in the White House before him.

NO evidence + ZERO proof = NEVER HAPPENED!
Isnt no evidence the same as no proof?
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Tommyjw
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#2065
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#2065
(Original post by RectalExamination)
The question isn't whether he is alive or not, its whether he died in this event or has been dead for years as has been suggested in the past as he was not in good health. Im not saying it definitely didn't happen, but it would be foolish to just accept anything you read or see without evidence, especially if they come up with crap like they buried him to respect islamic tradition, which they didn't
Firstly, the last bit makes no sense, at all, you know nothing about what you are talking about, please stop before you embarrass yourself. They buried him with the traditional clothing + prayers etc etc to show respect, mostly respect for his religion.

Secondly. It is not like their is no 'evidence'. It's not like they have said it and banned any news stuff about it and don't make any comments. They are consistently telling us stuff about it and at this very moment are talking about releasing photo's
Maybe i'm naive. But when countless world leaders, and a countless number more Officials from various countries comment on it and are all saying the same thing. I can believe it. When their is undeniable proof the raid happened and undeniable proof someone died in that raid.. then it is reasonable to take this as evidence.

We are not at a 'beyond reasonable doubt' stage yet. But there is evidence.

It's like they all ring up one man and ask him if it's true or not. They all have their own representatives in each country, they all have their own sources etc etc.
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MovingOn
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#2066
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#2066
(Original post by Tommyjw)
Just asking, do you listen to the news?

It wasn't only Osama, there were others in there with guns. To which it took 40 minutes to get through and get to Osama.
No-one was harmed because the seals are an incredibly well trained team of individuals. That is their job. Trained Seals vs 'terrorists with guns'.

P.s. You can't just 'take other forces' . There is so many things wrong with assuming you can just pop a witness or police officer in one of the helicopters.
I was talking about Osama, who wasn't armed. There was no firefight with him, he was shot unarmed. I would hope that each individual, especially the one they are aiming to catch, would be judged on their individual merit rather than an indiscriminate killing spree.

It wouldn't really have been 'popping' anyone in, this operation has been a long time coming and has been planned for months. Sufficent time for training etc to be given.


(Original post by moonkatt)
There was a firefight, they have said there was a 40 minute firefight in the press account of events, no Americans were harmed becase THEY DIDNT GET SHOT. They were enganged with fire from rpg's and kalashnikovs, how the hell do you expect them to deal with it? Tickle them? Theyre special forces, theyre not going to aim for an arrest when the people theyre trying to capture are trying to kill them. The way you win a firefight by putting more rounds down than the enemy, which equates to killing them all if none surrender, if they had reason to believe that Osama was armed then they will have killed him.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13257330
As above, I would hope that they would retaliate towards armed people, not indiscriminantly fire at all people in the vicinity who are not necessarily armed.
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Tommyjw
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#2067
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#2067
(Original post by MovingOn)
I was talking about Osama, who wasn't armed. There was no firefight with him, he was shot unarmed. I would hope that each individual, especially the one they are aiming to catch, would be judged on their individual merit rather than an indiscriminate killing spree.

It wouldn't really have been 'popping' anyone in, this operation has been a long time coming and has been planned for months. Sufficent time for training etc to be given.
:facepalm:

This is war. They will take take 10 seconds to judge a person every time they see a new one. The place was full of people, any SINGLE thought that was someone was a threat and they had to act upon it. That is the facts of war. Multiple sources are saying he appeared to be reaching for something before they shot him, what do you think about that?

And yes.. yes it would ¬_¬. You cannot just train a random person up to the level of a navy seal in a few months .. these are the navy seals. Any weak link and they could all die. Fact. Simple fact. It really is not hard to understand.
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moonkatt
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#2068
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#2068
(Original post by MovingOn)
I was talking about Osama, who wasn't armed. There was no firefight with him, he was shot unarmed. I would hope that each individual, especially the one they are aiming to catch, would be judged on their individual merit rather than an indiscriminate killing spree.

It wouldn't really have been 'popping' anyone in, this operation has been a long time coming and has been planned for months. Sufficent time for training etc to be given.




As above, I would hope that they would retaliate towards armed people, not indiscriminantly fire at all people in the vicinity who are not necessarily armed.
I think its fair to assume, even if he had no visible weapon on him and he was refusing to surrender, or to prove that he was not armed and that he has said he would rather die than be captured that its reasonable to assume he may be armed. And, at least he had a fighting chance with people trying to defend him, which is more than the thousands of people who died in the World Trade Centre had.
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Alison1992
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#2069
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#2069
(Original post by merryhappy)
He's always said he wasn't behind 9/11.

Plus it's the principle of putting him trial, we live in a so called democratic society where people have the right to innocence until proven guilty.

America is the worlds number one terroist.
Half a million people have died in Iraq.
Countless in Afganistan.
Theres a silent war with Pakistan.
Imperial war in Libya.

How many innocents do you think the capitalist powers of the world have killed people because of their own interests and capital gain?
okay so you put him on trial, what jury is ever going to find him innocent?
What about where you are keeping him whilst he is being kept awaiting trial? do you not think people would try and help him escape/whatever? does this nor pose a security risk? might it not cause the shooting of more people?
say you put him on trial, i'm assuming he'd be executed if found guilty, do you not think that this could make him a martyr?
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username547863
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#2070
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#2070
(Original post by muffingg)
Okay, he died, but what I don't like is people celebrating about it. That is just inhumane.
Troll? Do you realise how many people he indirectly killed because of his actions?
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Hamesh
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#2071
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#2071
(Original post by Aj12)
Well yeah it is. All politicians are self interested. No way Obama is going to risk his presidency on a lie that would be so easy to disprove
I can understand why this argument which relies on the premise of the title, President, may be favourable; however, the character also comes into question here. For example, the same basis can be applied to the case of Dr Harold Shipman who was found guilty of killing 215 of his patients through intentionally providing the wrong medical treatment. These patients trusted him because he was their Doctor. This is one of the more extreme examples.

This is where, I think, the people that are sceptical of the government's version of events are also assessing the character of Obama. He may be described as a liar, for not keeping his promises when he was elected, to close Guantanamo bay, to bring US troops back home, continuing the wars in the countries it is embroiled in for state interests since it is allowing dictatorships to remain, for example, Saudi Arabia & so forth. If the govt's version of events was told by [Gandhi, Mother Theresa, Martin Luther King] instead of [Obama, Cameron, Zardari] perhaps it might have been accredited with less suspicion.

Also, given that Osama is infamous worldwide, our natural inclination for evidence of his death comes to play here automatically and because of the lack of information provided, doubts are becoming more established. It may occur that if Bin Laden's death isn't shown or if it is shown without substantial accuracy, the alternative theories have a potential of prevailing the govt’s version of events.
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Martial44
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#2072
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#2072
(Original post by Tommyjw)
Firstly, the last bit makes no sense, at all, you know nothing about what you are talking about, please stop before you embarrass yourself. They buried him with the traditional clothing + prayers etc etc to show respect, mostly respect for his religion.

Secondly. It is not like their is no 'evidence'. It's not like they have said it and banned any news stuff about it and don't make any comments. They are consistently telling us stuff about it and at this very moment are talking about releasing photo's
Maybe i'm naive. But when countless world leaders, and a countless number more Officials from various countries comment on it and are all saying the same thing. I can believe it. When their is undeniable proof the raid happened and undeniable proof someone died in that raid.. then it is reasonable to take this as evidence.

We are not at a 'beyond reasonable doubt' stage yet. But there is evidence.

It's like they all ring up one man and ask him if it's true or not. They all have their own representatives in each country, they all have their own sources etc etc.
You clearly do not know what you are talking about when you are saying they buried him in the sea out of respect for Islam, burying him at sea is not in accordance to islamic principles unless it was absolutely necessary, in this case it was not, the operation was nowhere near the sea, about 1500 miles away.
The head of Egypt’s prestigious seat of Sunni Muslim learning, al-Azhar, said the sea burial ‘contradicts all the religious values and human norms’.
And various scholars have condemmed the claim that his burial was in accordance with the religion - do you know more about islam than me and the scholars of the religion :rolleyes:

There is no evidence. There is evidence that some operation was carried out and maybe a few videos of blood spattered carpets - but do you call that conclusive evidence that he is dead? is that your IQ? They even say he wasn't armed. The fact that a few allies involved in the current comment on the situation is not proof. The fact that they are talking about releasing photos to you is evidence? Its merely a distraction that allows them to offer excuses for not releasing the photos, such as it being too gruesome or somehow invigorating a negative reaction, whilst giving the impression the actually considered it (and that they do have those images).

You can say he is dead or not (as a result of this event or not), I cannot prove any likelihood, however I can tell you for sure that such idea that they buried him at sea to respect Islamic tradition is entirely false.
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whyumadtho
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#2073
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#2073
There was a "25 minute blackout" while the operation was underway. I don't know if this means there is no video of the actual killing.

Hmm... :holmes:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698
(Original post by BBC News Live Feed)
According to an interview with CIA director Leon Panetta on PBS, there was video of the approach to the compound but no direct video feed from the operation itself. Mr Panetta said there was a twenty five minute blackout once the team went in.
www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/terrorism/jan-june11/panetta_05-03.html
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magpie90
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#2074
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#2074
I am a republican supporter however respected the presidencies of several democrats including FDR and JFK, however I cant stand Mr Obama.

I was a fan of ex war hero John McCain and I do honestly think Obama is all talk. He can talk the talk but his policies have been crap.

Lets hope Donald Trump can kick his ass.

As for osama Bin Laden, has anyone seen the body? would surprise me if it was part of another conspiracy
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DorianGrayism
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#2075
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#2075
(Original post by thunder_chunky)
Says the person who wasn't there. He was refusing to surrender and was using a woman as a human shield, he was resisting.
I don't think you could ever be sure that they could have brought him in. You can only speculate.





This
Well obviously I am speculating.

That is just my inference from the facts that have been given.
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thunder_chunky
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#2076
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#2076
(Original post by DorianGrayism)
Well obviously I am speculating.

That is just my inference from the facts that have been given.
You just can't be sure, put it that way. I mean you don't have the full facts, the situation might have been complicated. It would be wrong to assume without any doubt he could have been taken alive.
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4TSR
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#2077
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#2077
(Original post by popop124)
really? Source?

- doesn't sound like a much of fight to me then - at least once those with firearms were down

My question is: why didn't they just CS gas the whole building?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13275124

here you are

and gassing the building would be risky... he had Kids and women in there
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Chris_23
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#2078
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popop124
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#2079
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#2079
(Original post by 4TSR)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13275124

here you are

and gassing the building would be risky... he had Kids and women in there
Risky???

- half of them got shot!


Thanks for the link - its clear that he wasn't armed then - I can understand why it might have happened (a lot of things going on - maybe he was acting in a threatening way), What I do object to a great deal, is seeing this unfortunate turn of events in some way as a good thing to happen. Osama's speech did not make it clear this clear and that it would have been better to take him to court. This total lack of remorse and even some celebration just puts the Americans on the same level as them.

Wouldn't everyone agree with this?:

Civilised people should not storm buildings, shoot unarmed people and then label the killings as "good" whether they are American or Muslim.
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popop124
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#2080
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#2080
(Original post by merryhappy)
He's always said he wasn't behind 9/11.
Do you have a source for that? - surprising since everyone seems to blame him for it...
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