Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
x Turn on thread page Beta

The Cricket Society IV watch

Announcements
    • Community Assistant
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    Community Assistant
    (Original post by Ellie419)
    Root has only played one test in India, which was his debut, his batting has come on a long way since then. His biggest issue is temperament, he seems to have had a tendency to get out playing a bad shot having worked hard to play himself in.

    I personally disagree with you, I don't think Cook should step down just yet, he is still in his early 30's and this England team is very unstable at the moment, the last thing they need is a change in captaincy. His natural successor would be Root, given that he is currently the vice captain, but he has played less then 50 test, and is still young, I don't think he is ready for the captaincy, so of the experienced players that leaves Broad and Anderson, both of whom would be better off just focusing on their bowling. Cook needs to stay at least another year, get a set opening partnership and middle order. We certainly don't want to follow in the foot-steps of Australia.

    England's batting order may be long, but its up to the senior batsman to dig in and grind out the runs. Some of the young players (especially Duckett) who don't quite have the temperament will need to follow their lead, get out of one day mode and work hard for their runs, pace themselves. No use in getting out early going after runs, especially after the batting collapse in Bangladesh.

    If most of the team contribute like in the Ashes last year they have a chance of a series win, but at the moment I'd back India to win by a massive margin.
    Anderson hasn't got long left, in truth. Broad will celebrate his 100th Test cap tomorrow - a heck of a feat. Broad is 'only' 30. He aims, he says, to play in "at least two more Ashes series". I always think Broad is a bowler of great spells, though, rather than a great bowler.

    A lot is being made of who the two spinners will be to accompany Moeen, if Cook opts for a three and three approach. Despite Ansari being ideal to face the right-handers, I'd give it Batty, who can exert a tad more control. Rashid - known as the Hoover for his ability to rack up a tail - is also set to play, but I'm unconvinced.

    Moeen has struggled with the demands of leading an inexperienced spin attack: wicket-taking deliveries will doubtless materialise but control remains an issue. Bangladesh and, in particular, Pakistan have found success in attacking him.

    England's top-order average (No. 1 to No.7) in Tests in India since 2000 is 41 - the second best of any touring side - but overseas batsmen i have struggled in the last couple of years in Tests in India: SA averaged 16.69 last year, after all.

    Elsewhere, Mennie will replace Siddle, and Abbott will replace Steyn, for Australia/SA respectively. Shaun Marsh has also been ruled out, so the Baggy Greens have called up Burns and Ferguson.
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Mackay)
    Anderson hasn't got long left, in truth. Broad will celebrate his 100th Test cap tomorrow - a heck of a feat. Broad is 'only' 30. He aims, he says, to play in "at least two more Ashes series". I always think Broad is a bowler of great spells, though, rather than a great bowler.

    A lot is being made of who the two spinners will be to accompany Moeen, if Cook opts for a three and three approach. Despite Ansari being ideal to face the right-handers, I'd give it Batty, who can exert a tad more control. Rashid - known as the Hoover for his ability to rack up a tail - is also set to play, but I'm unconvinced.

    Moeen has struggled with the demands of leading an inexperienced spin attack: wicket-taking deliveries will doubtless materialise but control remains an issue. Bangladesh and, in particular, Pakistan have found success in attacking him.

    England's top-order average (No. 1 to No.7) in Tests in India since 2000 is 41 - the second best of any touring side - but overseas batsmen i have struggled in the last couple of years in Tests in India: SA averaged 16.69 last year, after all.

    Elsewhere, Mennie will replace Siddle, and Abbott will replace Steyn, for Australia/SA respectively. Shaun Marsh has also been ruled out, so the Baggy Greens have called up Burns and Ferguson.
    Thats what I mean, there isn't anyone to replace Cook as captain yet. I'm not convinced by Rashid, he takes wickets but goes for a lot of runs, a bit too expensive for test cricket.
    • Community Assistant
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    Community Assistant
    (Original post by Ellie419)
    Thats what I mean, there isn't anyone to replace Cook as captain yet. I'm not convinced by Rashid, he takes wickets but goes for a lot of runs, a bit too expensive for test cricket.
    Completely agree, mate.

    Rashid lacks the control and variation to really succeed at Test level. He's a fabulous County Championship cricketer, and a white-ball international standard player, because he can befuddle a tail. But international tails are getting longer and longer - and I don't think we can carry Rashid. All eyes point to Nair starting.

    More worrying for England is the fact Cook and Root have a penchant to be befuddled by spin.

    Since 2012, Ashwin and Jadeja have contributed 66 per cent of their wickets - and given the inexperience of the rest of England's top order in Asian conditions, the onus will be on Cook and Root to lead the way and show that India's spinners can be conquered in India.

    Ashwin is awesome against left handers, and no England batsman has got out to left-arm spin in Tests as often as Root: he has been dismissed nine times.

    In other news, Mohammad Amir is to join promoted Essex for the second half of the 2017 season.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Mackay)
    Completely agree, mate.

    Rashid lacks the control and variation to really succeed at Test level. He's a fabulous County Championship cricketer, and a white-ball international standard player, because he can befuddle a tail. But international tails are getting longer and longer - and I don't think we can carry Rashid. All eyes point to Nair starting.

    More worrying for England is the fact Cook and Root have a penchant to be befuddled by spin.

    Since 2012, Ashwin and Jadeja have contributed 66 per cent of their wickets - and given the inexperience of the rest of England's top order in Asian conditions, the onus will be on Cook and Root to lead the way and show that India's spinners can be conquered in India.

    Ashwin is awesome against left handers, and no England batsman has got out to left-arm spin in Tests as often as Root: he has been dismissed nine times.

    In other news, Mohammad Amir is to join promoted Essex for the second half of the 2017 season.
    Excellent - regarding Amir, also, eagerly awaiting tomorrows Test.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Mackay)
    Completely agree, mate.

    Rashid lacks the control and variation to really succeed at Test level. He's a fabulous County Championship cricketer, and a white-ball international standard player, because he can befuddle a tail. But international tails are getting longer and longer - and I don't think we can carry Rashid. All eyes point to Nair starting.

    More worrying for England is the fact Cook and Root have a penchant to be befuddled by spin.

    Since 2012, Ashwin and Jadeja have contributed 66 per cent of their wickets - and given the inexperience of the rest of England's top order in Asian conditions, the onus will be on Cook and Root to lead the way and show that India's spinners can be conquered in India.

    Ashwin is awesome against left handers, and no England batsman has got out to left-arm spin in Tests as often as Root: he has been dismissed nine times.

    In other news, Mohammad Amir is to join promoted Essex for the second half of the 2017 season.
    Exactly the problem with the county game, not enough high quality spinners have been produced, so not only are we short of high-class spinners we also lack players who are able to play spin. I think its worth looking at some of the young spinners, Hampshire's Mason Crane looks to be a good leg spinner, maybe worth looking to the future rather than a short term fix.

    As for the batting line-up I don't understand why they haven't tried Jason Roy, he's an excellent batsman who has played in the ODI's and T20's and did well during the World T20, at least he had some international experience, rather than Hameeb who will be on debut. I would have been tempted to bring Hales back if I was a selector, he's shown he is improving on his temperament and can work hard for runs, plus a somewhat settled opening partnership may have been good for Cook as well. Constantly changing opening partners can't be helpful.

    There is still some hope for England, when Moeen Ali first came into the side against India he had a sensational series, he may yet provide good returns. As for Root, if he can play like he did at Old Trafford and control his temperament that would be great for the team. He and Cook need to lead from the front definitely. Woakes seems to be going through a purple patch so hopefully he can get some reverse swing. Its a shame Wood still isn't fit, he is very similar to Simon Jones and would be able to get plenty of reverse swing and be an excellent addition.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    Delighted Hameed will get his debut and with Duckett at four it confirms England were wrong to stick with Ballance as they are now left with another new opening partnership and a 19-year-old making his bow in what will be very testing conditions but if he overcomes that and succeeds it will be a tremendous character boosting experience. If I was Kohli, I would look to bat and rack up the runs and apply pressure to the batting line up of the opposition with their unit of spinners in good form.

    It should be a good series with India winning however the mini-battles between players (Anderson/Stokes v Kohli my one to watch especially as Stokes and Kohli are two guys who don't walk away from a confrontation) might be the most interesting aspect.

    On the spinners, I'd go with Moeen, Ansari and Batty. Rashid, sadly, in that environment and with the quality of India's batsmen could get even more pasted as he normally does and his go-to contribution i.e skittling the lower order won't be as easier as they will be accustomed to facing spinning opposition.

    By the way, any idea why Botham and the main Sky commentators weren't in Bangladesh? All I remember hearing were Nasser, Atherton plus the B team of Knight, Keys and Cork who tbf aren't as bad as one might think

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    • Community Assistant
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    Community Assistant
    (Original post by Ellie419)
    Exactly the problem with the county game, not enough high quality spinners have been produced, so not only are we short of high-class spinners we also lack players who are able to play spin. I think its worth looking at some of the young spinners, Hampshire's Mason Crane looks to be a good leg spinner, maybe worth looking to the future rather than a short term fix.

    As for the batting line-up I don't understand why they haven't tried Jason Roy, he's an excellent batsman who has played in the ODI's and T20's and did well during the World T20, at least he had some international experience, rather than Hameeb who will be on debut. I would have been tempted to bring Hales back if I was a selector, he's shown he is improving on his temperament and can work hard for runs, plus a somewhat settled opening partnership may have been good for Cook as well. Constantly changing opening partners can't be helpful.
    Ansari seems to be in the England team under the wrong pretence. He seems to be selected because he's handy with the bat, but his runs have come in division two, and he's clearly an inferior bowler to Leach, who picked up more wickets than Zaf in the County Championship this year.

    I think the issue for Roy - like Buttler - is that, while Roy says that he wants to play Test cricket, there is nothing wrong with being a white-ball specialist these days, and we're seeing it more and more. I think the ECB and England set-up wants specialists in all three formats, because a large crux of the squad (Root, Stokes, Woakes, Mo) could suffer burnout by playing too much cricket too regularly.

    Of course, Buttler could have come in for this Test, but he hasn't scored any red ball runs of note since being omitted from the Test side.

    Good points re. Wood, too. He's a far better bowler than Finn - and always has been - and will go down as a real tragedy if he ends his career injury-plagued. Like I said, if England are to win, they'll need to find reverse movement. Stuart Broad's bowling average in away Tests against India is 145, as opposed to his average of 17.79 against them at home. He has taken two wickets in 76 overs across three Tests in India.

    Compare that with Ashwin's bowling average in the previous home series against England of 52, and his record since (99 wickets in four home series at an average of 16.56, and 11 five-fors in 13 matches) and the fact spinners have taken 321 wickets at an average of 29.56 in Rajkot.

    Ominous.
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Mackay)
    Ansari seems to be in the England team under the wrong pretence. He seems to be selected because he's handy with the bat, but his runs have come in division two, and he's clearly an inferior bowler to Leach, who picked up more wickets than Zaf in the County Championship this year.

    I think the issue for Roy - like Buttler - is that, while Roy says that he wants to play Test cricket, there is nothing wrong with being a white-ball specialist these days, and we're seeing it more and more. I think the ECB and England set-up wants specialists in all three formats, because a large crux of the squad (Root, Stokes, Woakes, Mo) could suffer burnout by playing too much cricket too regularly.

    Of course, Buttler could have come in for this Test, but he hasn't scored any red ball runs of note since being omitted from the Test side.

    Good points re. Wood, too. He's a far better bowler than Finn - and always has been - and will go down as a real tragedy if he ends his career injury-plagued. Like I said, if England are to win, they'll need to find reverse movement. Stuart Broad's bowling average in away Tests against India is 145, as opposed to his average of 17.79 against them at home. He has taken two wickets in 76 overs across three Tests in India.

    Compare that with Ashwin's bowling average in the previous home series against England of 52, and his record since (99 wickets in four home series at an average of 16.56, and 11 five-fors in 13 matches) and the fact spinners have taken 321 wickets at an average of 29.56 in Rajkot.

    Ominous.
    Well at least while the rest of the world is falling apart, Root is playing beautifully and well on his way to another century with Moeen working towards a fifty. Moeen seems to have to rescue the innings a lot this year. Still if England can get to 350 then they set their bowlers up with a decent total to bowl against, 400 would be safer in case Kohli gives us another batting masterclass.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    Stumps. Moeen one away from a century. Root with a century, well played England.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    • Community Assistant
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    Community Assistant
    Shami fit for the second day, India say - and Anderson eyeing a return for England in the second Test, which will buoy the tourists.

    Joe Root was in imperious form for England today, reaching his 11th Test century, with Moeen Ali also impressing after his elevation to five.

    The interchangeability of the English middle-order - and their versatility - really is a thing to behold. England have two 100-Test veterans in their side, Cook and Broad, but it was all about the new guard today. Root and Moe were excellent, what a pair of knocks, as England settled for the day at 311-4 at stumps. The two added 179 - the longest and highest partnership by a visiting team since the start of the 2015-16 season.

    Ali ended the day on 99 not out and the pair joined forces straight after lunch, after India threatened to strangle the tourists' innings by dismissing Cook, Hameed and Duckett.

    That century breaks Root's drought in Asia - in impressive style - and I have to say, I wouldn't have dismissed him. He was unlucky to be caught and bowled by Umesh Yadav for 124. Root scored the first century by a batsman visiting India since Michael Clarke in February 2013. Joe Root's average in the first Tests of a series since 2014 is 83 - the best among all batsmen with 15 or more innings. He has made four centuries and seven fifties in 19 innings.

    We learned a few things today: India don't always produce raging turners - and England can play spinners, they just can't play on spinning wickets (Duckett's wicket was eerily similar to the one against Mehedi in Chittagong). Ashwin and Jadeja, despite claiming two and one wicket respectively, find it difficult when conditions are unfavourable.

    India's efforts in the field undermined them, too. Catching in the slips is an art. Cook was dropped twice (Rahane and Kohli were guilty) before he had reached two. Hameed looked composed and produced some nice cover drives, even when dropped at slip on 13.

    England were poor in their use of DRS - Cook being dismissed when the ball was going down leg, asked Hameed if he should review, and the rookie responded by saying "no" presumably. Likewise, Root opted to review - farcically - after Hameed himself was dismissed.
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    Strong batting from England to finish on 537 but India have replied with 63/0 at the end of the second day.

    Surely this is going to finish as a dull high scoring draw?
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Zerforax)
    Strong batting from England to finish on 537 but India have replied with 63/0 at the end of the second day.

    Surely this is going to finish as a dull high scoring draw?
    It may well be, hoping England could get at least 3 wickets before lunch tomorrow.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    Nothing dull about 3 centurions in one innings
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    Stokes now averaging 33.12 with the bat and 33.32 with the ball. Can't imagine it's too long before his batting average is higher than his bowling average.

    Done some digging for some GOAT Ben Stokes stats...

    Ben Stokes at home:
    Batting average 27.94 – including 1 century
    Bowling average 38.36

    Ben Stokes away:
    Batting average 39.03 – including 3 centuries
    Bowling average 30.58

    Ben Stokes in 2016:
    Batting average 57.25
    Bowling average 19.80

    Spoiler:
    Show



    Ben Stokes away from home in 2016:
    Batting average 64.10
    Bowling average 18.63




    Must be pretty rare to have such a clear improvement in your away performances compared to your home ones.
    • Community Assistant
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    Community Assistant
    I think today is key in showing that a good first day means nothing unless you build on it. We saw it recently in the SA vs Australia series, where the latter were in control after day one, but conspired to throw away their ascendancy in quite spectacular implosive style.

    England did well today, building on their lead, but the way India are set looks ominous. Thankfully, for the tourists, the pitch seems to be giving plenty of assistance to the seamers. In truth, it will be a disappointment to the England team that they were unable to dislodge either of the Indian openers in the 23 overs they bowled at them in the final session, with India ending at stumps on 63-0. India, after all, are still 275 from saving the follow-on.

    While yesterday belonged to Root, today belonged to Moeen and Stokes. The pair completed centuries as England racked up a first-innings total of 537. Stokes became the third century maker in the innings - indeed, not since 1961 in Kanpur have England had three centurions in a Test match in India. Moeen took three balls to reach three figures for the fourth time in Test cricket - but India will again look at the fielding. Saha was guilty of a costly drop off the bowling of Yadav, before Moeen was eventually removed when he left alone a straight delivery from Shami who, (recovering from his injury scare yesterday) provided a threat and also dismissed Bairstow.

    Jadeja chipped in to get rid of Woakes, before removing Rashid, but he and Ashwin struggled (Stokes took 11 runs off the former's first over of the day) and Ansari/Broad even frustrated them for a while. Ashwin's average in this innings is 83, his second-worst in India in innings when he has taken at least a wicket. India's spinners went for 3.6 - their fourth-worst at home while bowling 75 or more overs. Amit Mishra was the most expensive with an economy rate of 4.17, while Ashwin and Jadeja conceded runs at 3.63 and 2.86 respectively.

    Stokes was sent back by Yadav and Ansari by Mishra, but the widening cracks prove good for the away side. The ball has reverse swung well - and the thing about reverse swing is that it allows you to take wickets while reducing the runs you are conceding.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    Was a little bor d earlier and found myself looking at stats of some of the great bowlers; came across Dale Steyn who, according to Cricinfo, has a test bowling strike rate of ~41?!? Absolutely absurd statistic. To put it into some context, McGrath, Ambrose, Warne, Murali all have rates over 51. Its that impressive I'm not even convinced it's correct.
    • Community Assistant
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    Community Assistant
    All India today - and the game is surely heading for a draw.

    Vijay and Pujara followed the 68-run opening stand with half-centuries, and their unbeaten partnership of 94 meant England could only claim one wicket on the third morning, with little reverse swing available.

    They conceded 99 runs in the first session of day three, but Chris Woakes in particular was unlucky to go wicketless, after Broad Gautam Gambhir, who looked in a tangle for much of his innings.

    Elsewhere, tomorrow marks the second SA and Australia Test. Haddin has called for Smith to step up, as well as Warner. The latter fired 90 in the first Test - albeit at a slow rate - but we definitely need to see improvement from the captain, as well as a bette use of Nathan Lyon, if the spinner is utilised.

    Lyon only got 12 overs on the third day, with none before lunch, at the WACA. Starc is set to shake off injury and play, according to reports, and du Plessis has said the pitch won't swing much - perhaps making the SA bowling attack, without Steyn, a bit toothless. Of course, Rabada was incredible at the WACA - and I'd love him to recreate that form.

    Mitch Marsh is likely to play as a fifth bowling option should Hobart's weather forecast clear up, but if there's rain, Callum Ferguson will be set for a Test match debut as a sixth specialist batsman alongside four bowlers. Joe Burns and Joe Mennie will also come in, for Shaun Marsh (broken finger) and Peter Siddle respectively. Adam Voges tweaked a hamstring in Perth but passed a fitness test on Friday and is expected to play. SA will bring in Kyle Abbott for Steyn. They may also opt for a four-man pace attack which would mean both Abbott and Morkel in the XI, and Maharaj dropped.

    Last month, Mennie took 0 for 82 against South Africa in Johannesburg, the worst figures ever by an Australia bowler on ODI debut, and three of his likely Test opponents - Quinton de Kock, Faf du Plessis and JP Duminy - batted against him in that game.

    South Africa's bowlers claimed no fewer than eight lbw verdicts against their opponents' zero, and du Plessis has urged them to be attacking and adapt. This South African team has little experience of asserting themselves on the opposition, though. Since Graeme Smith's retirement in March 2014, they only time they've done that away from home was immediately afterwards, when they toured Sri Lanka later that year.
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Ellie419)
    Nothing dull about 3 centurions in one innings
    Add another 2 centurions from India and that's now 5 in three days of Test cricket. India at 319/4

    You don't think it's dull that it's likely to end as a draw with neither team getting remotely close to a result?

    India will probably spend day 4 getting to and around/past England's score. Leaves it very unlikely that England will do anything other than batting practice on day 5.
    • Community Assistant
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    Community Assistant
    India won the first session of the day - Gambhir looked uncomfortable for the majority of his innings, and he got in a real muddle and saw himself dismissed by Broad, on his 100th Test.

    But after that, Pujara played beautifully, right from the word go displaying lovely footwork and taking the game away from England, using his feet like the tourists did in the first innings. He and Murali Vijay became the fourth and fifth centurions in the match. The 209-run partnership between Vijay and Pujara made them the most prolific duo for India since the start of 2010. Pujara is a local hero and it was somehow fitting that his was the first hundred scored by an Indian batsman on the ground.

    England fielded well, though, and were unlucky not to get more wickets. Two LBW shouts were close, and England laboured well - they fielded sharply, threw the ball in hard in what were tough conditions. Duly, England got their reward with two late wickets, Rashid picking up Vijay for 126 (with a fine googly the hosts are struggling to pick) and Ansari chipping in to get rid of nightwatchman, Mishra.

    The scoreboard doesn't really show it, but England bowled well on the third day. Chris Woakes bowled with aggression and accuracy, Rashid spun the ball with greater accuracy than normal and Moeen/Ansari were decent, too, offering few chances, and Ben Stokes struck to get rid of Pujara for 124. During the Woakes spell in the morning, 14 runs came in 10 overs. "Our seamers have done a fantastic job in tough conditions," England's assistant coach Paul Farbrace said. And he was right.

    I still think there's a result on here and I think both teams still have a chance. If India can get somewhere near parity, it's incredibly easy to imagine England falling in a heap in their second innings. England meanwhile have, right at the end there, nudged open a door that seemed to be closing. If they can get a couple of early ones, they could quite conceivably be batting again by mid afternoon, with a 100 run lead and looking to set something up for the fifth day. The one thing that may concern England a little is their inability to gain any swing, be it conventional or reverse.
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Zerforax)
    Add another 2 centurions from India and that's now 5 in three days of Test cricket. India at 319/4

    You don't think it's dull that it's likely to end as a draw with neither team getting remotely close to a result?

    India will probably spend day 4 getting to and around/past England's score. Leaves it very unlikely that England will do anything other than batting practice on day 5.
    I don't think its dull because it shows that England are actually able to compete, many people had written them off after Bangladesh. It sets a good precedent for the rest of the series.
 
 
 
Reply
Submit reply
Turn on thread page Beta
TSR Support Team

We have a brilliant team of more than 60 Support Team members looking after discussions on The Student Room, helping to make it a fun, safe and useful place to hang out.

This forum is supported by:
Updated: April 21, 2018
Poll
Do you agree with the proposed ban on plastic straws and cotton buds?
Useful resources

Quick link:

Unanswered sport threads

Groups associated with this forum:

View associated groups

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.