(Original post by billydisco)
Yes but that's expected Yawn.
Buckinghamshire admits what, 14% into Grammar schools? Lets assume it does... i know its less than Kent's 25%.
And because Bucks admits less of the cohort into the lesser number of grammars they have, the results of the non-selective schools are better than the results of the non-selective schools in Kent?
So children who are in the 15th percentile, in Bucks would not attend a Grammar school, but in Kent everyone up until the 26th percentile would go to a grammar- therefore Kent Grammars have 'worse' results than other county's Grammars because they admit less intelligent pupils from the 25th percentile.
I think you need to appreciate that Bucks is not a statistical neighbour of Kent's so their school set up cannot be compared to Kent.[/quote]
You admit then that the reason for the better results in grammars generally is down to one thing only...intake, intake, intake? Of course the results are better in grammars because the overwhelming majority of pupils are taken from between the 10th and 30th centiles. However, if one compares the results on a like-for-like basis with the top stream of a truly comprehensive school that has pupils from the same centiles, the results of grammars are no better, and apart from the borderline pupils, are worse for the 98th and above centile.
I do have to correct you on one misconception you have about Kent. At the meeting of KCC with community partners on 21st April this year, the Kent officer responsible for secondary transfers said "There is no right to a grammar school place if you pass the Kent test." And of the 4% (618 pupils) not allocated one of their four preferred schools 500 were non-selective and 118 had passed the Kent test.
Likewise, i've seen you state on here how education in Kent is worse....... but only by looking at the number of schools which are not obtaining 5 A*-C grades.
Since that is the benchmark, that is all we can assess on, as does the Dept. of Education when it issues notices to schools that they are failing.
This can also be explained due to the 25% proportion who study at Grammars in Kent. It means that whereas in Bucks there are pupils from the 15th percentile studying in the Secondary Moderns, the brightest in the Kent comprehensives are from the 26th percentile..... so generally speaking- the Kent comprehensives will have a much lower calibre of students.
Bucks is different to Kent inasmuch as they have no secondary moderns. Their comprehensive schools are more true to the 'all ability' meaning of comps. Conversely, because Kent grammars take up to the top 31% ability range, there exists less than a handful of schools that are 'all ability'...overwhelming they are secondary moderns because they don't have pupils from withint the top quartile. Those that do are populated by children of parents who are ethically opposed to grammars, and even if their child were to take the 11+ and pass with flying colours, they wouldn't express a preference for a selective school on the SCAF.
You can PROPERLY check the education quality of kent by looking at the whole county's student population (as someone did above) and Kent has an overall better average for whatever type of student.
You can only check properly when you have a complete breakdown of the academic abilities of the school population...and then compare it with the entire secondary school population, taking into account that very few grammars have near to a 100% pass rate considering the selective nature of their intake. If the top comp in England can achieve a 100% pass rate with an intake of 25% from top quartile, 50% from median quartiles and 25% for 25th centile, then a grammar with 100% student population from the top quartile should find it very easy to achieve the same.
Those stats that show that result are flawed because they don't take into account the fact that Kent is the only Authority in England which is wholly selective.
Another interesting observation: Because of Kent's poor performance at KS2, there is good progress made in Kent's secondaries between KS2 and KS3. It's a 'catch-up' process. However, Kent consistently disappoints by it's failure to maintain that progress in its grammars between KS3 and KS4 (GCSE) Generally - year-on-year - it fares worst amongst it's statistical neighbours with the exception of Worcestershire.
We both know, Billy, that we will never get the other to agree with our attitude towards Grammar schools. They are not only socially incohesive, but also are no more successful with their brightest students than students with comparable ability at comprehensives...but people will continue to believe the myths surrounding them because they've got nice uniforms and traditions....can't be any other reason, because they don't exist under close scrutiny.