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    (Original post by pieceofheaven)
    to use the much-quoted example, no, but neither can you disprove the idea of a multicoloured teapot orbiting the earth - undetectable, mysterious, downright unlikely, but still possibly THERE.

    Also love is more of a cultural concept and varies between people, so it's not really a 'provable' thing as there is no consistent definition.

    Religion can never be disproved, but I believe it can be outgrown, just like I did with Santa.

    Love is definitely a cultural concept and I believe is innate, you can see that monkeys and dolphins care for each other.

    Good points!
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    (Original post by Ghim)
    I was born to Muslim parents, although they were quite secular (though conservative). I left Islam when I was around 16. I am an atheist now. Have been for the past five years.
    How do you know about Ahmadi Muslims?
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    Unfalsifiable hypothesis.
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    (Original post by llpokermuffinll)
    How do you know about Ahmadi Muslims?
    Because I am a person of the world. I'd be quite embarrassed if there were religious groups I weren't aware of.

    Anyway, why do you ask?
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    (Original post by Ghim)
    Because I am a person of the world. I'd be quite embarrassed if there were religious groups I weren't aware of.

    Anyway, why do you ask?
    Because I am Ahmadi Muslim myself. I mean, we are a minority and was wondering how someone who was Muslim for only 16 years and is an Atheist for the past 5 years, know about Ahmadi Muslims?

    Anyway, we have many beliefs that are differently interpreted than those of other Muslims and for that reason by fact (you would probably know yourself) we are a lot more peaceful than other Muslims.
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    (Original post by giga_grif)
    Anyone else SCARED by those who blindly follow a religion without ever really thinking freely and rationally? I am a strong atheist, and I just find people who follow a set of "rules" of a religion ignorant beyond belief. I am a logical person, and therefore I like to believe something based on EVIDENCE. Science is all about making a hypothesis and then providing evidence to either prove or disprove it, and the evidence for the theory of evolution is now so overwhelming I find it insulting when I meet someone who refuses to believe it due to their religious beliefs. People with religious beliefs have no evidence, and follow ONE book, which supposedly sets out gods will. There are books about unicorns and vampires, and the only argument religious people present to me is "You cant disprove god". You can't disprove vampires and unicorns, and indeed there is a vast amount of "evidence" in books to suggest their existence. This argument is an insult to anyone with an IQ above 40. When you have a debate with a religious person they also say that only a "higher being" could have made the universe, and say that something must have been around to cause the big bang. However this argument is flawed as ultimately someone must have created a "higher being" who then created the universe, and ultimately the creation of the universe is a question which science is alot closer to answering than religion which is in my opinion a cop out way of explaining how the universe was created.

    Just interested in people's opinions on religion on here really, having read the God Delusion by Richard Dawkins its an area which I would like to discuss.
    You have a very clouded view of what 'religious people' believe.
    Please remember that beliefs are exactly that. People have the right to their own ideologies, opinions and a right to worship the living god without being accused of being mindless morons. Your argument seems to infer that those who have faith in God cannot think for themselves or be in any way intelligent or logical - the same mind numbing argument used by richard dawkins.
    The theory of evolution id just that, a theory. I am a christian and I accept evolution as a fact.
    I became a christian this year, after many years of, I dare say, staunch atheism. Faith, and the gifts that come with it prove the existence of God far beyond any argument that anybody could put forward with the spoken word. I came to faith after months of trawling through websites, books and listening to talks about christianity, and it's antithesis, atheism. It is only when you take the 'leap of faith' that you realise the truth. Religion itself is not logical, it is something that goes beyond logic and reasoning, it is something hard-wired and deep rooted within the core of human beings.

    It is very hard to understand from the other side of the fence, and extremely easy to ridicule.
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    (Original post by carl_senior)
    Faith, and the gifts that come with it prove the existence of God far beyond any argument that anybody could put forward with the spoken word..
    Instead of 'proof of God', do you not think it more likely that it is a simulacrum generated in your own mind?
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    [QUOTE=giga_grif;28863036] Anyone else SCARED by those who blindly follow a religion without ever really thinking freely and rationally? [QUOTE]

    Hmm...I'm sensing abandonment issues...next you'll be saying Father Christmas doesn't exist...just because YOU were on the naughty list!!
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    (Original post by Bourgeois)
    The Selfish Gene is actually a very good book (even excellent). I do not know about The God Delusion as I haven't read it but I'm not a huge fan of Dawkins's approach to religion (I'm an atheist as well btw).

    ...And really people ought to be more humble about their beliefs especially when they're talking about metaphysics.
    I agree that the selfish gene is a fantastic book - it would make my shortlist. Unfortunately, Dawkins lets himself down when he gets onto the subject of religion. His views are just too extremist to be achieve a great deal of respect.
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    (Original post by The Boney King of Nowhere)
    pahahahahahahahahahahaha

    I hope you're joking
    "God is Love. More than this we cannot ask, higher with cannot look, farther we cannot go."
    –Science and Health with Key to the Scriptures by Mary Baker Eddy (p.6, l.17)

    It is a great book, I would recommend it over any.
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    (Original post by pieceofheaven)
    to use the much-quoted example, no, but neither can you disprove the idea of a multicoloured teapot orbiting the earth - undetectable, mysterious, downright unlikely, but still possibly THERE.

    Also love is more of a cultural concept and varies between people, so it's not really a 'provable' thing as there is no consistent definition.
    So are you comparing love to something that is undetectable, mysterious, and downright unlikely? Love is a demonstrable quality that is seen in everyday life across the globe. If it exists, it cannot be disproven.
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    (Original post by Beleg Cuthalion)
    "God is Love. More than this we cannot ask, higher with cannot look, farther we cannot go."
    –Science and Health with Key to the Scriptures by Mary Baker Eddy (p.6, l.17)

    It is a great book, I would recommend it over any.
    Wow, some woman said some words in a particular order so it must be true!
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    (Original post by The Boney King of Nowhere)
    Wow, some woman said some words in a particular order so it must be true!
    I take it you haven't read the book. I assume certainly you don't believe in God, but do you also not believe in love or good?
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    (Original post by giga_grif)
    This is a well written and well argued set of points and for that you have my respect. However I think you are wrong to say that I am hypocritical for following the "God Delusion" too closely, I do not treat his book as a christian would follow the bible, I was an atheist long before I read the God Delusion, I just read it for further reference. Indeed Religion is no longer about literally following this "one book" however I feel this does not take away from the fact that people basing their lives upon a concept which has no solid evidence to back it up. We have advanced so much scientifically since the days in which religion was the only explanation for the creation of the universe, and I can't help but feel it is such a shame to disregard such brilliant knowledge. Religion certainly can lead people to leave good lives, but I just feel that people can live good lives without having to be religious, and that a religious person is basing their life upon a falsehood. I do not follow Dawkins blindly, but I do highly respect him for being willing to stand up against religion- which is ultimately a tabboo subject in many areas of the world. However I think the point about preaching atheism you make is a good one. Dawkins himself admits that he could be seen to be a preacher of atheism. However I can't help but think that he is only preaching logic and reason, and in that regard I don't see why it is as bad as preaching a religion- which is something which has no evidence to back it up.

    Many thanks for you're excellent reply, and I don't want people to think that I have no respect for people who follow a religion, this is not the case, I have many devout friends, I just find it frustrating that in modern day society in which we know so much about science, people are still leading their lives based upon rules and beliefs created thousands of years ago when humans were in scientific terms ignorant.
    I think your reply has somewhat redeemed your argument in my eyes. I would however emphasise once again on the importance of any religion, for the majority of followers, is a much more spiritual thing then literal. I'll take as an example the bible, simply because I know it best in comparison to others religions, although for many the argument here remains the same.

    For a great many Christians - and taking personal experience from friends and family that all follow to varying degrees - the bible itself is not a literal text. Many will freely admit that they believe that scientific discoveries are the truth - for example the theory of evolution as opposed to creationism. The moral behind Genesis though could be said to appreciate and nurture the world around you - an argument that science also promotes in the prevention of global warming.

    You can continue this argument with different chapters, different religions, and the outcome is largely the same. Only the extremist groups push literal interpretations.

    Just as a note for you to think about...

    Aristotle was an ancient Greek scholar (384-322BC) - his ideas and theories were not challenged until perhaps Copernicus in 1514 - thats a gap of almost 1800 years. Aristotlian education was only truely changed throughout the modern world within the last two centuries.

    What is to say that what we believe now is true, if thinkers took 1800 years to challenge Aristotle...?
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    (Original post by llpokermuffinll)
    Because I am Ahmadi Muslim myself. I mean, we are a minority and was wondering how someone who was Muslim for only 16 years and is an Atheist for the past 5 years, know about Ahmadi Muslims?

    Anyway, we have many beliefs that are differently interpreted than those of other Muslims and for that reason by fact (you would probably know yourself) we are a lot more peaceful than other Muslims.
    That's true. Though, I must say I was quite annoyed at a recent campaign organised by some Ahmadi Muslims trying to improve the image of Islam. As you yourself said, Ahmadi Muslims are only a small percentage of Muslims. So, when you portray the views of Ahmadi Muslims as if its the mainstream position, it is about deceiving, don't you think? People might think that all Muslims hold the much more peaceful and pro-science views of Ahmadi Muslims.
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    (Original post by Ghim)
    That's true. Though, I must say I was quite annoyed at a recent campaign organised by some Ahmadi Muslims trying to improve the image of Islam. As you yourself said, Ahmadi Muslims are only a small percentage of Muslims. So, when you portray the views of Ahmadi Muslims as if its the mainstream position, it is about deceiving, don't you think? People might think that all Muslims hold the much more peaceful and pro-science views of Ahmadi Muslims.
    I don't know the details about that, so I can't really comment on that.
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    (Original post by Beleg Cuthalion)
    I take it you haven't read the book. I assume certainly you don't believe in God, but do you also not believe in love or good?
    Nah I believe in love and goodness..but I don't think if God exists we could call him either loving or good..at best simply indifferent to us.
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    Look, I haven't read the vast majority of replies to this thread so far so have no idea of the direction it has taken, so apologies if I repeat something or slip slightly off-topic

    If you are an atheist does that not mean you still have Faith?? For Faith is to have strong belief in something, therefore if you believe in your own theory (or the theory of an author) does that not make you as 'religious' to your beliefs as Chrisitans, Buddhists, Jews, Muslims etc etc??

    Once you start a discussion such as this you should be open to the fact that all you will achieve will be a circling of the same points made in different ways. Your beliefs outline you have Faith in something, confusing as it may seem you are no different to 'Religious people' because you believe yourself to have 'no religion' - Think about it.....

    I am Anglican Christian. I believe myself to have good morals and have Faith that far exceeds that of most people I encountered who go to Church even. I used to attend Church every week but once I was Confirmed I decided to practice my Faith with purpose instead of regimented worship. I find helping others and actually actively trying to make a difference for the better in the world is the best way I practice my Faith, therefore it is the best way, I feel, to show what I believe to be right instead of simply listening to what someone tells me is so

    I believe God is what you make it. Whatever someone believes about God is exactly what God is to them. After all, for a being that has power and significance that far surpasses anything the humble human is able to fathom can be whatever a person makes it, for at the end of the day God is exactly what you feel God is to you
    Look at it this way, I believe nobody can possibly be wrong about what they believe, as who has the right to say they're wrong, especially if they cannot be proven otherwise. It is the way in which they practice their Faith that is up for debate, as @ the end of the day, a person who goes to Church every Sunday religiously (pardon the pun ) could have their life based around themselves and still partake in selfish/detrimental acts yet they're seen as 'religious' because they attend Church. Whereas someone who never goes to Church, is indifferent to their belief in God, yet goes out there and spends all of their time and energy on helping others and making the world a better place is not classed as 'religious'.
    Which one is the better person in the end?? @ the end of it all which person is more deserving of eternal happiness and reward?? How could you possibly say that it matters whether a person is 'religious' or not, as to be honest, when the time comes, is it not the better/selfless person who has more Faith??

    If you read my 'What to Do??' thread thoroughly (long post and excessive smiley-usage warning hehehe) you'll see I have recently encountered a situation with religion that has really hurt me. Yet I know God is always there for me, no-matter what, and I don't care what anyone says, I believe what I believe and I am certainly not blinkered in my view of Life. I have been through and seen things most people of my age could never imagine (however I am fully aware there are those who have been through/seen more than me), I have life experience that far surpasses my years in many respects, which is perhaps why I am best able to work hard to become a well-rounded personality instead of the blinkered, narrow minded person society wants me to be in order to be overpower/indoctrinate me

    Religion is not wrong, what is wrong is the way in which religous leaders use their power over people to indoctrinate and rule others. I belive if everyone were open-minded then perhaps they'd listen and learn about the world as they should, in which case the human race would become the compassionate, good race they have the potential to be, and there will be minimal suffering in the world forever more. But, that day will only come when people realise Life is Life, and once everyone learns to appreciate Life and help thy neighbour, no-matter the card they've been dealt
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    (Original post by Beleg Cuthalion)
    I take it you haven't read the book. I assume certainly you don't believe in God, but do you also not believe in love or good?
    Sorry to scrape into your argument, but I don't think you can compare love and good together.

    Love is an emotion we all feel, we all know what it's like.

    Good is something subjective - we label something as good if it's seen as ideological or the 'right' way to do things, but usually it depends on your point of view.
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    (Original post by ~*Horse_Mad*~)
    Religion is not wrong, what is wrong is the way in which religous leaders use their power over people to indoctrinate and rule others.
    Do you think the Pope is one of these religious leaders that you talk about?
 
 
 
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