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Why are people so ignorant about suicide and depression? Watch

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    (Original post by Little_My)
    You know you can have an illness and be attention seeking. It doesn't make it any less valid.

    I would ENCOURAGE people to post how they feel, not dismiss it. It means people can actually help them and they can take advice.

    I think people should take cries for help seriously, and not instantly dismiss how a person feels.
    erm, we are on student room, be real hardly a cancelling site. Furthermore, they mostly aren't cries of help, just loners being depressed about minor issues like how they got dumped. Deal with your own problems, don't shove them onto other people.
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    (Original post by Little_My)
    People might ignore help for different reasons. What if the very people offering you help, where the ones to abuse you? Or hinder your recovery?
    Someone might feel unable to get help, for fear of being ostracized or because they don't trust the help given. Do the people still "did i not deserve what they got"?

    "If the treatment doesnt work then new treatment will need to be made"
    There are only so many treatment available, do those people deserve what they get, if the system fails them?
    If someone has a problem and doesnt accept the help they offered then they are foolish. This obviously when help is offered from a doctor, family, friend etc, however they should always be treated by someone medically trained.
    If someone doesnt seek or is unaware of help, then there is obviously a difference.
    If the treatment is useless, then they should be kept somewhere safe until a new treatment becomes available. If treatment never becomes available then the person should be helped to leave the best life possible- they should be kept in care to make sure they dont kill themselves. If someone has such unbearable agony that every moment of their day is mental and physical torture, then euthanasia should be given, with their permission.
    So you see, my original point has not changed. Treat the person, dont let them kill themselves. And as i said originally i have no problems with euthanasia. My point remains.
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      (Original post by Lewroll)
      And i think you are ignorant because you are arguing with someone you agree with. Despite my apparent lack of knowledge on mental illnesses, we both agree that we should try to treat these people. Does it matter if i dont completely empathise with these people. Treat them, dont let them kill themselves. You lot generally seem either ignorant or stupid, arguing with someone you agree with!
      I admit to agreeing with on one of the many points made in this arugument. Now the rest of what I have said is somehow invalid now? Now I definately know I'm trying to enlighten a brick wall.

      The original argument was not 'should we let them kill themselves', we were challenging your views on tear people and your utter ignorance on the subject of mental illness.
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      I guess when you know too much in this world, you question your life and purpose!
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      i have never told anyone this in such detail before and am crying as i write this, just before last christmas one of my close friends commited suiside ( he was 14 almost 15)thankfully i got to fly out for the funreal ( 2 days earlyer than planned to go) but at first i thought why was he so selfish ( being my immediate reaction) leaving a long term girlfriend, friends and family, I then had a major melt down for a few days thinking that it was my fault ( he was being teased about cheating on his gf for me) and that he couldn't live with all the teasing but then i reallised that something must have been going on in scottys mind even though he appeared to have the perfect life but what was really going on i think about him everyday and hate myself for no missing jus a week of school to visit him a week earlier and not being able to mabey change his thinking and mabey he still be here but saying he was weak we in no way right as he was an amazing person, who stood strong by he love for jesus and his faith. Also saying survival for the fittest taking this in litreal terms he was the buffest 14 year old you would ever meet but however meaning sycologically he was smart and always was checking to see if EVERYONE else was okay but not himself. He was definetly not stupid because he was a 90% kid the whole way through school so he must have had a good reason to want to leave i only hope and pray that someday i understand what he went through and why he did such a thing. sorry if this is no a correct reply i just needed to get it all out before it ruins another christmas, new year and 2011.
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      (Original post by trimmy)
      erm, we are on student room, be real hardly a cancelling site. Furthermore, they mostly aren't cries of help, just loners being depressed about minor issues like how they got dumped. Deal with your own problems, don't shove them onto other people.
      I completely disagree. But you can be unemphatic as you want to be :P
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      (Original post by Sabertooth)
      Complaining about ignoring your argument when you AGAIN ignore mine. :rolleyes:

      http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show...&postcount=151

      That is my initial post to you, you'll notice I wasn't responding to any question over whether people could kill themselves, I was responding to your ridiculously ignorant posts about how people are weak and apparently pulling themselves together will help. I also responded to your assertions about how taking the medication isn't a cure-all (which you haven't replied to me about yet, nor do I think you will I should add :rolleyes: ).

      Don't make **** up, I didn't "avoid" your "initial question", I did nothing of the sort because you hadn't asked that in the post I replied to - that is right there for everyone to see. You are the one avoiding things, not me. I've written 3 long posts to you explaining firstly why you're wrong and secondly my position, what did I get back, some crap about ignoring you.

      I like to help people, yes very much, which you would have noticed had you bothered to read my 3rd reply to you, you know the one where I say how it's only ok for people to kill themselves if they've tried to get help and the help doesn't help them. Unlike you, I know what I'm talking about, I know you don't just take a pill and every mental problem is magically solved.





      Isn't a very nice thing to say. :dontknow:

      I know people like you anyway, you'll argue all day how euthanasia is fine and dandy for physical things but you don't "allow" (lol) it for mental because mental doesn't hurt apparently, it doesn't wreck lives, it doesn't make waking up in the morning a feeling of regret and hate. Oh wait actually it does, only you've never experienced it and you're too ignorant and misinformed to bother to ever find out. If you were to experience it first hand, hell yeah you'd change your tune pretty fast. I don't think karma is a bad thing, no.
      Well if you werent so riddled with emotion you would see that i did respond to your post. You made a point, and i replied by asking you if we should just let these people kill themselves (which is what you implied in your post, which is why i asked it) You asked me no questions so I assumed your points were open for questioning. They obviously werent open to questioning though, were they, because you avoided my question like it was the plague. Get your facts straight buddy.
      You are obviously very emotional on this topic and you are letting this cloud your reason. All along ive been saying we shouldnt let these people kill themselves and that we should help them, whilst saying that i find euthanasia acceptable in extreme circumstances. I never claimed there was a magic cure. I never said treatment would be easy. I know you are not illiterate as you have responded to me before, so where did you get these absurd ideas from. An angry man will not make a good response. So i suggest you calm down and think about what you are writing before you do. You are either crazed by your emotions or very ignorant, i never said there was a magic cure, and it would have been ludicrous for me to say so.There is a difference in me saying that these people are weak and you wishing a disorder on someone. By definition, someone who commits suicide is weak you fool, they arent 'strong' are they, if they were they wouldnt have killed theirself.Its simple logic. So you can make whatever emotional plea you wish about me not understanding your pain. My point still remains, treat these people, dont let them kill themselves. You sound quite mental to me so I suggest you seek help. And you speak of karma, hmm, did i wish a horrible disorder on anyone, hmm i dont think so. Did i make an accurate comment on a person who tries to kill themself, yes, yes i think i did.
      It looks like your 'karma' has come early buddy. Good luck with the meds
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      (Original post by hippieglitter)
      I may get flamed for this and i don't care. Those who claim to be depressed and moan and moan and moan and moan about it, i don't believe are really depressed, those who are really depressed, who have been medically diagnosed and had treatment for depression (like myself and my best friend) are actually really good at hiding it, for the most part they don't want people to know hence why so many depressed people go without treatment for so long.
      This exactly :yep:
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      (Original post by Little_My)
      But this doesn't answer my question. What if the people offering helped abused you or hinder you so you don't use help offered, or not accept help for fear of being ostracized, are they still in your opinion 'deserving of what they get' ?
      No they arent deserving of what they get. Although i cant see why the people trying to help you would abuse or hinder you, thats not really helping is it? Help would come from someone who genuinely wants to help you, someone thats abusing you wouldnt genuinely want to help. Someone that doesnt accept help for fear of being ostracised is ridiculous, they probably have these feelings due to their mental disorder anyway, in which case they probably arent safe to be around and should be taken in. Thats what mental asylums are for. For the paranoid schizophrenic who refuses help. That answer your question?
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      (Original post by Lewroll)
      No they arent deserving of what they get. Although i cant see why the people trying to help you would abuse or hinder you, thats not really helping is it? Help would come from someone who genuinely wants to help you, someone thats abusing you wouldnt genuinely want to help. Someone that doesnt accept help for fear of being ostracised is ridiculous, they probably have these feelings due to their mental disorder anyway, in which case they probably arent safe to be around and should be taken in. Thats what mental asylums are for. For the paranoid schizophrenic who refuses help. That answer your question?
      [QUOTE]
      Although i cant see why the people trying to help you would abuse or hinder you, thats not really
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      (Original post by Lewroll)
      Lol dont worry im not going to neg you. Ive been saying all along these people should be treated. Thats no different to what you said. I understand it will take time, but if a successful treatment can eventually be given, than it was worth the wait wasnt it? Although i suppose the same could be argued for people who are euthanised.
      I was more worried about randomers negging me :P

      Some disagreements just about suicide I think we have:
      1. I don't believe people who commit suicide are weak. Neither is suicide for cowards.
      2. I believe that in some circumstances, suicide is the most rational response. Their right to control their own life is more important than the state forcing them to live when they do not want to.
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      (Original post by Little_My)
      I completely disagree. But you can be unemphatic as you want to be :P
      i think you need to 'wake up' a bit, if your simply sympathetic to everyone, then you would just be a pushover in life. Let the stupid people carry on posting all their personal problems on here, my opinion is as the quote 'don't wash your dirty laundry in public'.

      Plus, last time i checked this is an academic forum, not a depression solving one. People just need to get over themselves.
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      (Original post by Little_My)
      I'll tell you my personal perspective. I have been through the various mental health services sometimes inpatinet, and some staff there were abusive.

      But they also tried to 'help' by giving out meds and therapy. Therefore, I have an aversion to accepting 'help'. If I commit suicide, do i therefore deserve what i get? (not saying I will, just using it as an example)


      So say if I am depressed but I'm frightened of other people knowing and bullying me about it, its therefore ridiculous i avoid drawing attention to myself by getting help, as other people could find out?
      ha, wow.
      Im sorry for your experiences, but im afraid you are the exception, not the rule.

      Sorry, you are very ignorant of mental health services in general. For one, they are not call asylums anymore :P
      Oh sorry, i must not have received my copy of 'Mental Health Services Weekly', so they arent called asylums now. Didnt mean to offend you. So what are they called now? Whacky Shacks? Nut boxes? The Crazy Bin? Hmm, please enlighten me.
      As you can probably tell, i grow tired of this discussion. i never realiesed there were so many depressed people on TSR. You lot should get off your computers and go run outside, its a beautiful world out there. Night night.
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      (Original post by lightburns)
      I was more worried about randomers negging me :P

      Some disagreements just about suicide I think we have:
      1. I don't believe people who commit suicide are weak. Neither is suicide for cowards.
      2. I believe that in some circumstances, suicide is the most rational response. Their right to control their own life is more important than the state forcing them to live when they do not want to.
      Fair enough.
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      (Original post by GodspeedGehenna)
      Why should that be anything to be pitied? I think its remarkable that something as complex and innately human as the human 'mind' can ultimately be boiled down to intricate biochemical cascades both within cells and between them.
      You cannot prove it! you're basing on purely scientific theory. Transcend a bit. I don't mean get religious, I mean reality is nothing without the abstract.
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      (Original post by theths)
      i'm a woman. we multitask.
      lool
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      (Original post by F i s)
      You cannot prove it! you're basing on purely scientific theory. Transcend a bit. I don't mean get religious, I mean reality is nothing without the abstract.
      To understand reality truly, you must be realistic.

      Realistic means believing in what is proved. No amount of spiritual beliefs have ever been proved. You can spend your whole life chasing transcendence, and miss the real wonders that exist right here.

      Reality is intricate, wonderful and incredible. It is everything without the abstract. In fact, the abstract so often pales in comparison, and draws away attention from real wonder, sapping it away like a parasite.
      For example, the abstract view that humans are separate from other animals, and that we are purposeful, has caused so many to not appreciate the complex nature of evolution. That is of course an extreme example.
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      Obviously suicide and depression are sensitive subjects, hence why so many people have been arguing on this thread.

      My take on the original question, why are people so ignorant about suicide and depression ?

      Because there is a lack of understanding about what suicide is and what depression is.

      Depression has not been proven to be a chemical imbalance at all. You only have to look at a lot of Irving Kirsch's work to see why. A few reasons why it isn't a chemical imbalance of serotonin - the fact that negative studies of antidepressants aren't published, the same positive studies being reported to enhance the image of the drug, the fact that reducing serotonin does not produce depression (according to the theory it would...).

      Also, the fact that many people have to change antidepressants in order to 'find the right one'. To my knowledge, we don't have to change medications for other diseases in order to 'find the right one'. Either it works or it doesnt.

      Also the fact that antidepressants take about 4-6 weeks to 'work'...some people are 'treatment resistant', some people improve with CBT, some people turn to suicide.

      Therefore, in conclusion, We still do not know what causes depression. There are many explanations ; a chemical imbalance, irrational thoughts, childhood trauma, bereavement, relationship breakdown, abuse.

      It is easy to see how anything prolonged can cause depression, for example, if one dwells too much on death, abuse, being bullied then it's obvious that it will cause someone to become upset and interfere with their sleep, eating , daily routine etc.

      The bottom line is there is a lack of understanding in general about depression, in psychiatry, in medicine, in psychotherapy, in everyday life. There are theories about depression but that is all they are, theories.

      As for suicide, suicide is an extreme form of self-harm. You harm yourself by eliminating yourself from life. It is an escape because you feel like you cannot cope anymore with your condition. Maybe you've had a lot of treatments and none of them worked and you are sick of it. Maybe you lost something that meant a lot to you and you just can't cope without it. There is not one explanation for why people suicide but many. Just as there is not one explanation for depression.

      Until technology advances and science advances so that there is a completely objective test for the presence of depression then we will argue and debate.

      But maybe the human race is never suppose to find out about what causes depression. If we did know, then we could come up with a medication that causes happiness and therefore we would never experience sadness. Then we would have an emotional imbalance of the other kind, always happy, never sad.

      The day that comes, we would cease to be human. Humans are meant to feel unhappiness, just not for a prolonged amount of time.
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      (Original post by lightburns)
      To understand reality truly, you must be realistic.

      Realistic means believing in what is proved. No amount of spiritual beliefs have ever been proved. You can spend your whole life chasing transcendence, and miss the real wonders that exist right here.

      Reality is intricate, wonderful and incredible. It is everything without the abstract. In fact, the abstract so often pales in comparison, and draws away attention from real wonder, sapping it away like a parasite.
      For example, the abstract view that humans are separate from other animals, and that we are purposeful, has caused so many to not appreciate the complex nature of evolution. That is of course an extreme example.
      Everyone believes in something and that something is always greater than them or has an element of pre-eminence. I didn't say spend your whole life in transcendence, I just said that we cannot disregard it with only scientific means. Wonder is an abstract concept, only understood by a mind-set. Do not tell me this is just a chemical embodiment.
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      (Original post by ipulledhermione)
      I could never comprehend why anyone would ever reach a point where they are considering suicide. Killing yourself is so unnatural but it's by no means a weak or wrong thing. If someone came to me telling me they wanted to off themselves I'd automatically try and stop them and prevent it...but really what position am I in to do that? Am I wrong or are they wrong?
      .
      I think it's worth taking note of the dire circumstances many suicidal people find themselves in. Just imagine a scenario where a person is heavily in debt, loses their job whilst on the verge of losing their home, aggressive bailiffs turning up every so often, going through a relationship breakdown etc...these are bound to lead to feelings of hopelessness and despair, and thus suicide. But, of course, you may not have experienced any of these life experiences, which is why you cannot comprehend suicidal thoughts.
     
     
     
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