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    (Original post by garethDT)
    The way I see it, there should either be independent countries or a federal alliance. The current mish-mash is unfair.
    that sounds so childish! one country is a republic, so if they all can't be, then let's just stop any bit of fighting and take independence from them all? Like I said, the ROI has nothing to do with Scotland or Wales. Ireland became independent at the expense of alot of british and irish lives. So its not a case of fairness - this was the only peaceful solution to years of fighting! The way you talk about ireland you make it seem like it naturally is a part of the uk, when in fact they always remained very separate. To an irish person, it's like asking portugal to join spain...
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    (Original post by Lorchii)
    that sounds so childish! one country is a republic, so if they all can't be, then let's just stop any bit of fighting and take independence from them all? Like I said, the ROI has nothing to do with Scotland or Wales. Ireland became independent at the expense of alot of british and irish lives. So its not a case of fairness - this was the only peaceful solution to years of fighting! The way you talk about ireland you make it seem like it naturally is a part of the uk, when in fact they always remained very separate. To an irish person, it's like asking portugal to join spain...
    It is naturally part of the British Isles, in that sense all of us are racially, culturally and linguistically linked, regardless of the politics.

    Using the Spain analogy why does Portugal get to be independent and not Catalonia?
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    (Original post by garethDT)
    It is naturally part of the British Isles, in that sense all of us are racially, culturally and linguistically linked, regardless of the politics.

    Using the Spain analogy why does Portugal get to be independent and not Catalonia?
    racially? caucasian? beyond that the bloodlines differ. Genetically Irish and England are not the same. Linguistically - you wish to claim the US too? The argument is equally valid. Why is the US (13 states) free and Scotland isn't? Ireland naturally spoke Irish - so no. Not linked. Culturally - the same goes for the US, and western europe is not all that different from the UK and Ireland.

    I'm not getting involved in politics I don't know about - Catalonia are less justified then the basque who are actually coincidently genetically related to the Irish. THeir lanuage is totally different. But this is an aside.

    Considering there is never any motions towards reunification, and that the prime minister of Ireland Britain regularly meet amicably, cant you just sense you are wrong?

    Ireland is Ireland and Britain is Britain, and like this, no one fights or dies. Its win win!
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    (Original post by garethDT)
    It is naturally part of the British Isles, in that sense all of us are racially, culturally and linguistically linked, regardless of the politics.
    The British Isles is a horrible term, considering the Brythonic tribes didn't settle outside of Wales and England. The Gaels settled more land than they did.


    (Original post by bino756)
    I am from Northern Ireland and would never refer to myself as Irish as I am not from Ireland. I refer to myself as British or Northern Irish. imo, Ireland and Northern Ireland are two different countries, controlled by two different governments. And nor do I ever refer to northern ireland as Ireland. As far as I'm concerned, Ireland and Northern Ireland share a piece of land and not much else. Though I am glad about all the power share, there needed to be compromise. But I am proud to be British!!!
    I'm from Down, heartland of the Unionists, and I am proud to call myself Irish and hate being called British.
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    (Original post by Lorchii)
    racially? caucasian? beyond that the bloodlines differ. Genetically Irish and England are not the same. Linguistically - you wish to claim the US too? The argument is equally valid. Why is the US (13 states) free and Scotland isn't? Ireland naturally spoke Irish - so no. Not linked. Culturally - the same goes for the US, and western europe is not all that different from the UK and Ireland.

    I'm not getting involved in politics I don't know about - Catalonia are less justified then the basque who are actually coincidently genetically related to the Irish. THeir lanuage is totally different. But this is an aside.

    Considering there is never any motions towards reunification, and that the prime minister of Ireland Britain regularly meet amicably, cant you just sense you are wrong?

    Ireland is Ireland and Britain is Britain, and like this, no one fights or dies. Its win win!
    I agree with Irish independence, I just don't like the hypocrisy of it all. Wales is also a celtic country with their own language but they are ruled by London simply because they're too small a country to stand up for themselves.
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    (Original post by Hylean)
    The British Isles is a horrible term, considering the Brythonic tribes didn't settle outside of Wales and England. The Gaels settled more land than they did.




    I'm from Down, heartland of the Unionists, and I am proud to call myself Irish and hate being called British.
    I'm from Co. Down too.
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    All the people I know from the island of Ireland, north or south, refer to themselves as Irish.
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    (Original post by garethDT)
    The way I see it, there should either be independent countries or a federal alliance. The current mish-mash is unfair.


    No it isn't. One country fought and gained its independence, the others did not and have not. Get over it and stop acting like Ireland's independence was granted willingly at the expense of Scotland and Wales. Mish-mash? Sounds like you're annoyed that the map is messier than it was a hundred years ago.
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    northern ireland is british, ireland itself is a totaly different part in my opinion, but could be considered british if its society is taken into consideration for example they have a very "british society", but what does it actually mean to be british, as it is milticultural anywhere could be considered british.
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    Come on Ireland!!!!!
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    (Original post by StarsAreFixed)
    No it isn't. One country fought and gained its independence, the others did not and have not. Get over it and stop acting like Ireland's independence was granted willingly at the expense of Scotland and Wales. Mish-mash? Sounds like you're annoyed that the map is messier than it was a hundred years ago.
    Technically one part of a country fought and gained its independence, at the expense of the smaller part of it.
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    (Original post by Hylean)
    Technically one part of a country fought and gained its independence, at the expense of the smaller part of it.

    Nothing to do with Scotland or Wales though. I would argue that the messiness of the division of the North was the fault of all concerned, and not the new-found republic alone.


    As for saying Ireland is British because some cultural aspects are the same? You could say the same about American influence tbf. Having shops and channels in common does not mean it impacts on a country's psyche. I assure you if you ever actually visited the republic, you would not find it or its people 'British'.
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    (Original post by Peterpop)
    northern ireland is british, ireland itself is a totaly different part in my opinion, but could be considered british if its society is taken into consideration for example they have a very "british society", but what does it actually mean to be british, as it is milticultural anywhere could be considered british.
    Have you ever actually been to the Republic? :confused:
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    the protestants in Northern Ireland are descended from ulster-scots who were ethnically English and Scottish, which is why they see themselves as British.
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    (Original post by StarsAreFixed)
    No it isn't. One country fought and gained its independence, the others did not and have not. Get over it and stop acting like Ireland's independence was granted willingly at the expense of Scotland and Wales. Mish-mash? Sounds like you're annoyed that the map is messier than it was a hundred years ago.
    Would you rather we fight over it again as with Serbia and the break up of Yugoslavia or do it in a more peaceful and civilised manner?
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    (Original post by Hylean)
    The British Isles is a horrible term, considering the Brythonic tribes didn't settle outside of Wales and England. The Gaels settled more land than they did.
    The ancient Britons - who of course settled Scotland too - were named after the islands, not vice-versa.

    (Original post by Peterpop)
    northern ireland is british, ireland itself is a totaly different part in my opinion, but could be considered british if its society is taken into consideration for example they have a very "british society", but what does it actually mean to be british, as it is milticultural anywhere could be considered british.
    Working together within shared institutions.
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    (Original post by Fusilero)
    Would you rather we fight over it again as with Serbia and the break up of Yugoslavia or do it in a more peaceful and civilised manner?


    That wasn't the point. The point is, Ireland's independence has nothing to do with the status of Scotland or Wales, and that it is not 'hypocritical' for one country to gain independence because it is not at the expense of the others and was not doled out willingly or as part of a lottery. I've no idea what your point is. I fail to see where I advocate further violence if you are talking about Scotland and Wales breaking away.
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    (Original post by StarsAreFixed)
    That wasn't the point. The point is, Ireland's independence has nothing to do with the status of Scotland or Wales, and that it is not 'hypocritical' for one country to gain independence because it is not at the expense of the others and was not doled out willingly or as part of a lottery. I've no idea what your point is. I fail to see where I advocate further violence if you are talking about Scotland and Wales breaking away.
    Then I missed your point, my apologies.
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    (Original post by Psyk)
    So how does that make it different to Scotland or Wales? You could say the exact same thing about them.
    I'm all for scotland and wales having independence, My daughter is welsh and it's an amazing country. they don't even have their own proper government but scotland do. At th end of the day i'm very proud to be irish and our country was tormented and destroyed for 800 years trying to claimed even though there was no connection whatsoever. I don't see the reason for it.
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