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    (Original post by bouillabaisse)
    Do you really think that the Iranian's don't have hundreds of people specialising in military strategy who have worked exceptionally hard to make sure the situation is not like you've described lol :roll eyes:
    They can theorise all the want, but we would dismantle any defence they could possible erect. Ah, the joys of superior military capability
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    So is allowing an Iranian nuke. Stuck between a rock and a hard place

    true, but not enough. isnt there any other ways? like, U know, north corea is always more dangerous than Iran. but we let them be free anytime.
    AND, theres no ensurance that iranian government doesnt have the nuclar's right now, and no ensurace that they wouldnt use it while "defending" themselves!


    (Original post by Rat_Bag)
    Their economy is far more stable and secure than ours is, and it's stability and security that matters.
    the stability?? iran? dude. everything is falling down about economy here. like i said; scandals, bankrupts, LOT of bankrupts. bad inflation; any governmental staff is dying with no money. THERE IS NO stability.


    (Original post by FromRussiaWithLove)
    Iran just downed a U.S. drone using e-countermeasures. It uses the same stealth technology as the B2 Bomber so maybe they can bring one of those down too. Worrying stuff.
    dont believe what you hear. most of the things that iranian government say's is fake. totally.


    (Original post by Howard)
    The Iranian army is much much larger than Britains. They are also pretty well trained and not likely to run up the white flag at the first sign of trouble. Plus of course the British army is already stretched to a maximum so it's unlikely they could pull together much of a force.
    it IS larger. but we all know it. quality vs. quantity! you might have an army of 1 milion empty-handed soldiors, but 100 tanks can get over them. its easy. iranian army is not proffesional but UK's is- done.
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    (Original post by paulhenry)
    true, but not enough. isnt there any other ways? like, U know, north corea is always more dangerous than Iran. but we let them be free anytime.
    AND, theres no ensurance that iranian government doesnt have the nuclar's right now, and no ensurace that they wouldnt use it while "defending" themselves!
    North Korea is kept in line by China and is hardly free, it is pretty much barred from the entire international community, and they do whatever they want. Just look at the fact they bomb South Korea and sink their ships.
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    North Korea is kept in line by China and is hardly free, it is pretty much barred from the entire international community, and they do whatever they want. Just look at the fact they bomb South Korea and sink their ships.
    agreed. but, the part i meant they cannot do anything, was nuking - U know, they threat alot of times that they will, but they are controlled.
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    (Original post by JonathanNorth)
    In this case in a conventional war, we have the technology to beat Iran's army without even taking fire. Unless we start fighting in close quarters, I don't see how the Iranian's are going to fire back. Their armoured force is obsolete, their air force is obsolete and you could probably say most of their equipment is dated. In conventional warfare Iran's military would be very easy to destroy, however of course inside cities or urban combat is another thing. But out in the terrain which Iran has, I'm pretty damn sure the UK military would dominate, if it focused its entire force on Iran.

    Not only that, we could enforce a naval blockade on Iran, take out all its oil pumping capabilities and essentially sever the army communications via the use of tomahawk missiles.

    While it wouldn't be easy, the UK military certainly would not get owned if it had the full force behind it.
    Outdated equipment doesn't necessarily mean a definite "Rock-Paper-Scissors" loss. By that I mean just because one has equipment that is, by all intents and purposes, dated doesn't mean that it will inevitably fall to superior kit that, as you rightly say, we possess.

    Look at the Taliban. AK-47s and RPGs as well as plastic tubs filled with explosives, and they still manage to kill hundreds of our Forces a year which utilise the most advanced vehicle hardware, light-weight body armour, firearms (even though the SA80 is just useless) and recon-units.

    It doesn't matter if its a Challenger II or a Sherman. Destroy the tracks on a tank and it becomes a sitting duck. A duck with a 120mm rifled cannon, admitedly, but its immobile all the same.

    Our airforce isn't that advanced. Flares and Chaff are still only 60% or so effective and we have nothing to protect against rapid fire, ground-based anti-air units.

    Also, as for Tomohawks, this isn't necessarily a be all and end all either. The Iranians do have access to the Goalkeeper 20mm anti-missile system. Just like we use to protect our naval vessels and ground-based installations. The Dutch system is on par with America's Phalanx/Centurion systems, and more then capable of destroying a Tomohawk Cruise Missile.

    We aren't completely certain to win a war like this on our own. A good chance, but that's why we call in aid from the rest of the Coalition.

    But my point is, just because our spear is sharper then the Iranians, doesn't mean they aren't just as effective with theirs.
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    (Original post by paulhenry)
    true, but not enough. isnt there any other ways? like, U know, north corea is always more dangerous than Iran. but we let them be free anytime.
    AND, theres no ensurance that iranian government doesnt have the nuclar's right now, and no ensurace that they wouldnt use it while "defending" themselves!




    the stability?? iran? dude. everything is falling down about economy here. like i said; scandals, bankrupts, LOT of bankrupts. bad inflation; any governmental staff is dying with no money. THERE IS NO stability.




    dont believe what you hear. most of the things that iranian government say's is fake. totally.




    it IS larger. but we all know it. quality vs. quantity! you might have an army of 1 milion empty-handed soldiors, but 100 tanks can get over them. its easy. iranian army is not proffesional but UK's is- done.
    Iran's army is pretty professional actually. But putting that to one side, Britain's professional army has been well and truly caned several times before.
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    Basically if they attack Iran, I'll be 100ft underground eating cold baked beans if you want me. I doubt I'll get any signal so no point in texting/ emailing me xD
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    (Original post by Howard)
    Iran's army is pretty professional actually. But putting that to one side,Britain's professional army has been well and truly caned several times before.
    When?
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    (Original post by Polka Dot)
    When?
    Got kicked out of the American colonies by a rag tag army and a bunch of farmers.
    Got owned by a bunch of Boer farmers in South Africa
    Afghanistan, 3 times (twice in the 19c and once in the 20c)
    Caned by the Zulus in 1879
    Beaten by Irish peasents at Castlebar

    I am sure there are more but these spring instantly to mind.

    Of course this is nothing to be ashamed of and not a reflection of a poor army. History is littered with examples of professional and technically advanced armies being routed by an unlikely opposition.
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    (Original post by Howard)
    Got kicked out of the American colonies by a rag tag army and a bunch of farmers.
    The British army beat the Continental Army in the majority of set peices. It was only when, you know, the French, the Spanish and the Dutch got involved and started raping the British supply lines accross the Atlanitc, that the tide began turning. The French, Spanish and Dutch were most certainly not a rag tag bunch of farmers.

    (Original post by Howard)
    Got owned by a bunch of Boer farmers in South Africa
    Funny, I was under the distinct impression that Britain won, subjugated and conquered Orange and Transvaal.

    (Original post by Howard)
    Afghanistan, 3 times (twice in the 19c and once in the 20c)
    The first war was a disaster yes, the second resulted in Afghanistan ceding it's foreign policy powers to the Raj, and the third war was Britain easily defeating an Afghan invasion of India.

    (Original post by Howard)
    Caned by the Zulus in 1879
    Oh no, the British lost one single battle when they were outnumbered 20 to 1, heaven forbid :rolleyes:
    It took the British just seven months to crush and conquer the Zulus. It was a decisive British victory with a casualty ratio of over 1:4, British:Zulu.

    (Original post by Howard)
    Beaten by Irish peasents at Castlebar
    Yes, the French had absolutely nothing to do with that at all :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by Howard)
    Got kicked out of the American colonies by a rag tag army and a bunch of farmers.
    Got owned by a bunch of Boer farmers in South Africa
    Afghanistan, 3 times (twice in the 19c and once in the 20c)
    Caned by the Zulus in 1879
    Beaten by Irish peasents at Castlebar

    I am sure there are more but these spring instantly to mind.

    Of course this is nothing to be ashamed of and not a reflection of a poor army. History is littered with examples of professional and technically advanced armies being routed by an unlikely opposition.
    I think Pol pot noodles dealt with all those quite well.

    when you said the british had been defeated I thought you meant in living memory considering you were making comparison to the modern professional British army and the modern Iranian Army. Fact of the matter is we have experience, better hardware and superior training honed over hundreds of years (thats why armies around the world send officers to be trained at sandhurst). On our side.
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    (Original post by Clens)
    China, Russia and the DPRK will not get involved.

    China is too focussed on its' economy to wade into costly, needless conflicts. It follows isolationist policies, and wouldn't consider Iran important enough to jeopardise relations with the West.
    China is isolationist as per it's self interest. China would only be too pleased to see the West embark on another crippling adventure in the Middle East, bringing forward the day it can be the assertive power in global geo-politics. You've got to admire China's patience.

    (Original post by Clens)
    Russia is still controlled by Putin. Putin is suffering in the pre-election polls and although it is almost certain will emerge victorious, he will not risk losing even more popularity.
    A war might not make him loose popularity.

    (Original post by Clens)
    Secondly, as with China, Russia follows a relatively isolationist policy
    I think they hold the same mentality as China, except Russia's leaders are deluded if they think they are ever going to be a global power again.

    (Original post by Clens)
    This shouldn't escalate into some "all-in" conflict. Israel will not allow the Iranian nuclear sites to develop, and it will use its air power to deal with them.
    Or other means, as it has until now.
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    Just fire a ton of bacon over the damn country
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    (Original post by paulhenry)

    the stability?? iran? dude. everything is falling down about economy here. like i said; scandals, bankrupts, LOT of bankrupts. bad inflation; any governmental staff is dying with no money. THERE IS NO stability.
    This is what the Iranian middle class think, because they are squeezed most by Ahmadhinejad's redistributive economic policies and punitive action against liberal contractors in the private sector, favouring conservative loyalists and firms connected with Pasdaran. The fact of the matter is that the Iranian economy continues to show very healthy growth in the face of the global downturn elsewhere. The existence of bankruptcies and inflation are not a symptom of economic downturn in themselves. Inflation of this level is actually very normal in thriving economies, and bankruptcies are a fact of life.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    Their economy appears stable to you, but it is heavily dependent on oil. Once we have made sure they don't have the means to export it, their economy would essentially collapse.
    You think this happens overnight? You think it can't all just go out through neutral Turkmenistan to China?

    A war with Iran is far more likely to induce economic collapse here rather than there.

    (Original post by Elipsis)
    Our economy is also over 4x the size of theirs. So in terms of economic might we would stomp all over them.
    Ours is teetering on collapse as it is. Wonder what would happen with another war, especially with a relatively strong player like Iran

    (Original post by Elipsis)
    By the time we hit the ground many of their men would be dead, they'd have next to no artilary to speak of, and they would be in disarray. We don't have to wipe them out to cause the army to switch sides here. By the time we had any boots on the ground, it would just be a case of sweeping in and finishing the job.
    This is extraordinarily naive wishful thinking.

    (Original post by Elipsis)
    Of course the Taliban can communicate... but they are 36,000 strong and communicate infrequently between cells. If we had all of them stood against us in a conventional battle, we would win in less than 3 days, and probably lose less than 100 men. If we reduced the Iranian armies communication capabilities down to those levels, it would be much much easier because they wouldn't have very direct command from above.
    Firstly, the Taliban are able to perpetuate the menace in Afghanistan, in spite of 10 years of NATO presence. This is reality.

    Secondly, there is no point hypothesising about "conventional warfare" with the Taliban, because this is never going to happen. Why would they agree to conventional warfare? It's hardly like Britain engages in conventional warfare either. It's like saying, if you gave the Taliban a parity in military technology, then they might engage in conventional warfare. Why would we? You judge success or failure in warfare by the reality and practicalities on the ground, not by unlikely hypothesis.

    Lastly, our army has precious few in it with experience of conventional warfare (if you can count the Falklands as such warfare). Iran on the other hand does, with the last conventional war of our times being fought out for 8 years with the Iran-Iraq war. Ironically, this was a war that everybody in the West expected to be done and dusted in a matter of months, with the Western-backed and armed Iraq expecting a quick victory. Didn't happen. Iraq lost, the Islamic Republic got the rallying cause it needed to entrench and perpetuate itself, and the West looked very silly for underestimating Iran to such an astronomical degree.

    (Original post by Elipsis)
    You are debating with someone who specialised in military strategy in their history degree by the way.
    No comment
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    (Original post by Rat_Bag)
    This is what the Iranian middle class think, because they are squeezed most by Ahmadhinejad's redistributive economic policies and punitive action against liberal contractors in the private sector, favouring conservative loyalists and firms connected with Pasdaran. The fact of the matter is that the Iranian economy continues to show very healthy growth in the face of the global downturn elsewhere. The existence of bankruptcies and inflation are not a symptom of economic downturn in themselves. Inflation of this level is actually very normal in thriving economies, and bankruptcies are a fact of life.


    bankrupts are the fact of life. BUT. country's first AND second car manufacturing companies (IRANKHODRO & SAIPA) were bankrupted. the biggest bank (MELLI bank) was almost too - and these are the basements in everyfield, considering that they are all governmental.

    about the global downturn. well, it IS true, but why? because the country continue's very lonely, with no connection to most EU or american contries. but tjis caused the bad quality of stuff and country's low improvements.

    Totally, I think that the economy system is really messed up - really dirty - in the country. i wonder if you've heard the 3 milion - and then 10milion - dollars defrauds BY THE GOVERNMENT PEOPLE. this shows how messed up everything is.
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    (Original post by paulhenry)
    bankrupts are the fact of life. BUT. country's first AND second car manufacturing companies (IRANKHODRO & SAIPA) were bankrupted. the biggest bank (MELLI bank) was almost too - and these are the basements in everyfield, considering that they are all governmental.

    about the global downturn. well, it IS true, but why? because the country continue's very lonely, with no connection to most EU or american contries. but tjis caused the bad quality of stuff and country's low improvements.

    Totally, I think that the economy system is really messed up - really dirty - in the country. i wonder if you've heard the 3 milion - and then 10milion - dollars defrauds BY THE GOVERNMENT PEOPLE. this shows how messed up everything is.
    From what you write, the UK sounds a hell of a lot worse
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    (Original post by Rat_Bag)
    A war with Iran is far more likely to induce economic collapse here rather than there.
    How? The UK has a AAA credit rating, can afford to borrow, can step up exports and issue war bonds. It has the resources of the largest financial centre in the world through which to fund and resource any war.

    (Original post by Rat_Bag)
    Ours is teetering on collapse as it is. Wonder what would happen with another war, especially with a relatively strong player like Iran
    The UK economy is not 'teetering' on the brink of collapse. It's, debatably, teetering on the brink of recession. It could be in recession for the next decade and would still be larger than Iran's.
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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    How? The UK has a AAA credit rating, can afford to borrow, can step up exports and issue war bonds. It has the resources of the largest financial centre in the world through which to fund and resource any war.

    The UK economy is not 'teetering' on the brink of collapse. It's, debatably, teetering on the brink of recession. It could be in recession for the next decade and would still be larger than Iran's.
    The crisis in Europe could easily affect the UK because of the inter dependency. Most people really don't understand or appreciate how bad the situation is, and how catastrophic it could evolve to
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    (Original post by Rat_Bag)
    The crisis in Europe could easily affect the UK because of the inter dependency. Most people really don't understand or appreciate how bad the situation is, and how catastrophic it could evolve to
    What is the worst possible effect of this crisis? Economic collapse? I don't think so. Another recession? Maybe. That doesn't change the gact that the UK is and will always be wealthier than Iran. To suggest that Iran is in a more stable financial position than the UK is ridiculous. To suggest that Iran could in any way compete in a war against the UK is ridiculous.
 
 
 
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