Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by playingcards)
    I think you’re in the political closet, struggling with some unrequited Labour sympathies. The louder you shout, the more you try to ignore it, the more obvious it becomes to us bystanders.

    Go on, give in. Be true to yourself. Join the Labour party. We’re very nice.
    Why should I? They don't have anything to offer, other than 'vote for us, we're not the Tories'
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by marcusfox)
    Why should I? They don't have anything to offer, other than 'vote for us, we're not the Tories'
    And yet in this thread you still managed to write 10,000 words about them

    Seems like a little crush to me.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by marcusfox)
    Why should I? They don't have anything to offer, other than 'vote for us, we're not the Tories'
    To be fair, the Conservatives' campaign literature for the local elections seems to be 'vote for us, or Labour will get back in'.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by A Mysterious Lord)
    To be fair, the Conservatives' campaign literature for the local elections seems to be 'vote for us, or Labour will get back in'.
    I was referring to people who plan to vote Labour at the next General Election.

    More specifically the revelation that some Labour supporters believe that it's perfectly OK to have no plans on how to deal with the economy because they are not about to have an election, it is simply enough to oppose everything the Tories are doing without providing an alternative.

    Or perhaps like the Lib Dems, it's a secret, not to be revealed until after the election?

    Picking a constituency at random - Stevenage - the Conservatives don't seem to have mentioned Labour at all, indeed some very sound policies there.

    Contrast with the Labour one. "Only Labour can beat the Tories here in Stevenage - If you are thinking of voting for a party other than Labour but don't want the Tories to get in, please think hard before you cast your vote [...]"

    I don't doubt that some Conservative councillors will choose to attack Labour though...
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    If we're discussing parties attacking each other then I might add I haven't heard a single government speech which doesn't contain the words 'Labour's mess'.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    I'm a member of the Labour Party simply because I agree wholeheartedly with its values as a democratic socialist party.

    Labour sticks up for working people's interests, and advances social justice, equality and fairness. For all of our faults in government, Labour left Britain as a fairer, more tolerant, more forward thinking and open nation after 18 years of Conservative rule.

    The biggest successes include supporting pensioners (I guarantee that this government's treatment of pensioners will be a big vote loser in 2015), devolution, peace in Northern Ireland (something the Tories were never able to do) and the many successes in the education sector, including schemes such as Sure Start (undone by this government. Gove is now loathed by teachers).

    Everything looks set for a Labour victory in the next election.
    Offline

    8
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by marcusfox)

    That's how I know you would vote Labour if the candiate was a dog with a red rosette on it. No intelligent (or otherwise) assessment of their policies, because they don't have any.
    You're really starting to sound like a broken record.

    One more time for the sake of clarity, because you just don't seem to be getting it, but I'll make it simple for you.

    I have outlined my reasons for supporting Labour, which is what this thread is about. They are accessible in previous posts. They are perfectly valid reasons, and include things like the minimum wage, Labour's record on equality and reductions in child poverty, to name but a few reasons. I will vote Labour at the next election because as things stand I believe they are best placed to guide the country to prosperity once again. I remember that under their stewardship the country enjoyed the longest period of economic growth since the industrial revolution before the global crisis took hold. If another party emerged that opposed austerity that is damaging the economy and people's lives and also had policies that I agreed with that differed from Labour then I would vote for them.

    Now, you have an opposite view. That's fine; I believe it's wrong but it doesn't matter what I think, it's your view. You don't have to justify it to me, just as (despite what you obviously believe) I don't have to justify mine to you.

    I really have no desire to discuss it any further; you incoherent ramblings aren't really adding much to the debate that I couldn't read in the Daily Mail, and at least in the Daily Mail I get the odd pretty picture to look at.

    Lets leave it at that








    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    8
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Hazhk)
    I'm a member of the Labour Party simply because I agree wholeheartedly with its values as a democratic socialist party.

    Labour sticks up for working people's interests, and advances social justice, equality and fairness. For all of our faults in government, Labour left Britain as a fairer, more tolerant, more forward thinking and open nation after 18 years of Conservative rule.

    The biggest successes include supporting pensioners (I guarantee that this government's treatment of pensioners will be a big vote loser in 2015), devolution, peace in Northern Ireland (something the Tories were never able to do) and the many successes in the education sector, including schemes such as Sure Start (undone by this government. Gove is now loathed by teachers).

    Everything looks set for a Labour victory in the next election.
    Don't let marcusfox hear you say that; we aren't allowed to agree with successful Labour Party achievements such as SureStart, disarmament, the minimum wage etc because it makes us unintelligent sheep only voting for Labour because we hate Thatcher.


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    Because they're not the bleeding Tories
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by euphful)
    You're really starting to sound like a broken record.

    One more time for the sake of clarity, because you just don't seem to be getting it, but I'll make it simple for you.

    I have outlined my reasons for supporting Labour, which is what this thread is about. They are accessible in previous posts. They are perfectly valid reasons, and include things like the minimum wage, Labour's record on equality and reductions in child poverty, to name but a few reasons. I will vote Labour at the next election because as things stand I believe they are best placed to guide the country to prosperity once again. I remember that under their stewardship the country enjoyed the longest period of economic growth since the industrial revolution before the global crisis took hold. If another party emerged that opposed austerity that is damaging the economy and people's lives and also had policies that I agreed with that differed from Labour then I would vote for them.

    Now, you have an opposite view. That's fine; I believe it's wrong but it doesn't matter what I think, it's your view. You don't have to justify it to me, just as (despite what you obviously believe) I don't have to justify mine to you.

    I really have no desire to discuss it any further; you incoherent ramblings aren't really adding much to the debate that I couldn't read in the Daily Mail, and at least in the Daily Mail I get the odd pretty picture to look at.

    Lets leave it at that
    Yes, you have outlined your reasons for supporting Labour, and I have outlined my reasons why currently I support the Tories, and you have ran away from answering most of my previous points, not to mention ignoring me asking you to point out where I engaged in personal attacks on you like you have on numerous occasions.

    You seemed to be engaging in a bit of Thatcher and Tory bashing earlier, and I simply asked you why the cognitive dissonance, since Labour got up to much the same and worse as everything they have accused Thatcher of since, closing mines, destroying industry, except on a larger scale, but there is not a peep out of them regarding that, and when pressed on the issue, simply gloss over it as you have done, simply claiming that it was because Labour are the nice party and the Tories are the nasty party, and Thatcher 'was so divisive'.

    I also asked you how you can blindly support a party that opposes austerity without them having said how they plan to solve it, and you came up with the patently ridiculous answer that they don't have to have a plan as to how to solve it, they just need to shout loudly in the House of Commons and the media that everything the Coalition do regarding the economy is wrong, and that's good enough for you.

    If that is not a definition of blind loyalty, I don't know what is. You yourself have admitted that you have no idea whatsoever how or even if Labour will fix the economy, since they have no policies in place as to how to do it (apart from their top secret plan B)

    You can keep saying that you would support any party depending on whether their policies match your views and not just because of who they are until you are blue in the face, but your efforts are entirely transparent.

    You aren't voting Labour because their policies are any good (because you know they don't have any), you are voting Labour simply because they are the Labour party.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by marcusfox)
    I also asked you how you can blindly support a party that opposes austerity without them having said how they plan to solve it, and you came up with the patently ridiculous answer that they don't have to have a plan as to how to solve it, they just need to shout loudly in the House of Commons and the media that everything the Coalition do regarding the economy is wrong, and that's good enough for you.
    Well the Conservative's plan is evidently not working; the UK deficit has not been significantly reduced, our national debt continues to rise and Osbourne has presided over a double (probably soon to be triple) dip recession. If anything, the cuts he's made have stunted the growth of the economy and exacerbated the problem. Moreover, there are questions about whether many of the cuts he has made will actually save any money, which suggests that they are ideologically rather than economically driven. Despite all of this, and against the recommendations made by the IMF, Osbourne refuses to rethink his strategy.

    So the question voters are faced with is whether they would rather a party who have pledged to persevere with a demonstrably failing economic policy to retain power, or whether they would prefer a party who plan to try something different (whatever that may be) to have a chance. The people who plan to vote Labour would plainly rather go with the latter option.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by hungergeist)
    Well the Conservative's plan is evidently not working; the UK deficit has not been significantly reduced, our national debt continues to rise and Osbourne has presided over a double (probably soon to be triple) dip recession. If anything, the cuts he's made have stunted the growth of the economy and exacerbated the problem. Moreover, there are questions about whether many of the cuts he has made will actually save any money, which suggests that they are ideologically rather than economically driven. Despite all of this, and against the recommendations made by the IMF, Osbourne refuses to rethink his strategy.

    So the question voters are faced with is whether they would rather a party who have pledged to persevere with a demonstrably failing economic policy to retain power, or whether they would prefer a party who plan to try something different (whatever that may be) to have a chance. The people who plan to vote Labour would plainly rather go with the latter option.
    Well, it is too early enough to say whether the austerity measures will be successful or not, especially as it is a long term plan. I will concede that it is not going as well as hoped so far, but the solution is not to spend money the country doesn't have. And in any case, nobody has come up with an alternative plan that has the money in place to pay for it.

    The last paragraph pretty much sums up Labour voters beliefs that Labour can 'do something different' as wishful thinking, to be honest, as none of them have the slightest clue what that 'something different' actually is.

    As I said on page one:

    "95% of Labour supporters believe it's possible to leave behind a trashed economy without a single negative consequence.

    Then when an incoming government fails to deal with said trashed economy, without even the slightest pain, they can be accused of being clueless idiots."

    And as nobody knows exactly what Labour are going to do, because they haven't said so, Labour are simply scoring political points by playing to the gallery. It's easy to not need an economic plan when in opposition, because you don't actually have to make the difficult decisions on behalf of the country.

    Compare with the Lib Dems - It's easy to promise to oppose increases in student fees when you expect to have no chance of being in government, but when you're actually thrown in at the deep end, you have to either suck it up if the money isn't there to pay for all those things that will make people happy and get people to vote for you, or refuse the chance of actually making decisions that affect the country.

    There isn't a magical lever at No 10 marked 'growth' that can be pulled at a whim to fix the economy, otherwise it would have been pulled long ago, and neither is there a magical pot of gold out there to pay for the planned spending Labour had in place before the election either, because Labour spent it all and left a note saying there was no money left, that's why austerity measures were necessary - because the money simply wasn't there.

    Where Labour is going to get the money that doesn't exist (because they spent it all during the good times) to stop the austerity measures if they get in is a question Labour will have to answer.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by marcusfox)
    Well, it is too early enough to say whether the austerity measures will be successful or not, especially as it is a long term plan. I will concede that it is not going as well as hoped so far, but the solution is not to spend money the country doesn't have. And in any case, nobody has come up with an alternative plan that has the money in place to pay for it.

    The last paragraph pretty much sums up Labour voters beliefs that Labour can 'do something different' as wishful thinking, to be honest, as none of them have the slightest clue what that 'something different' actually is.

    As I said on page one:

    "95% of Labour supporters believe it's possible to leave behind a trashed economy without a single negative consequence.

    Then when an incoming government fails to deal with said trashed economy, without even the slightest pain, they can be accused of being clueless idiots."

    And as nobody knows exactly what Labour are going to do, because they haven't said so, Labour are simply scoring political points by playing to the gallery. It's easy to not need an economic plan when in opposition, because you don't actually have to make the difficult decisions on behalf of the country.

    Compare with the Lib Dems - It's easy to promise to oppose increases in student fees when you expect to have no chance of being in government, but when you're actually thrown in at the deep end, you have to either suck it up if the money isn't there to pay for all those things that will make people happy and get people to vote for you, or refuse the chance of actually making decisions that affect the country.

    There isn't a magical lever at No 10 marked 'growth' that can be pulled at a whim to fix the economy, otherwise it would have been pulled long ago, and neither is there a magical pot of gold out there to pay for the planned spending Labour had in place before the election either, because Labour spent it all and left a note saying there was no money left, that's why austerity measures were necessary - because the money simply wasn't there.

    Where Labour is going to get the money that doesn't exist (because they spent it all during the good times) to stop the austerity measures if they get in is a question Labour will have to answer.
    Excellent post Sir M. You have laid out clearly the tragic situation facing our country. We are desperate for a leader of the calibre of Mrs Thatcher to pull us out of this mire. At the moment only UKIP is offering a real alternative. But we do not know what UKIP is behind the cheery chappie with his pint of beer and matiness. We had plenty of austerity during and after the War; people understood why and grinned and bore it. Now we do not really understand why.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by the bear)
    Excellent post Sir M. You have laid out clearly the tragic situation facing our country. We are desperate for a leader of the calibre of Mrs Thatcher to pull us out of this mire. At the moment only UKIP is offering a real alternative. But we do not know what UKIP is behind the cheery chappie with his pint of beer and matiness. We had plenty of austerity during and after the War; people understood why and grinned and bore it. Now we do not really understand why.
    In 2010, the deficit inherited by the Coalition was the biggest since WW2

    When it all ended in 1945, it took until around 1959 to get the economy back to the way it had been when it all kicked off in 1939.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Paramore<3)
    In an ideal world, I'd be voting for the Green Party, but obviously they'll never win.
    if everyone who said this actually did vote for the greens then the greens would win
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by martin jol)
    if everyone who said this actually did vote for the greens then the greens would win
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by martin jol)
    if everyone who said this actually did vote for the greens then the greens would win
    I know, that's why it's so frustrating.
    But putting your faith in the British public is not always a good idea!
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by St. Brynjar)
    is that a real party broadcast? i can't tell
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by martin jol)
    is that a real party broadcast? i can't tell
    Yeah, it's real. He's given support to the Lib Dems in recent years too.
 
 
 
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    Brussels sprouts
    Useful resources

    Groups associated with this forum:

    View associated groups
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.