Muslim students at Queen Mary calling for a ‘right to pray’ Watch

MedicalMike
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#201
Report 5 years ago
#201
(Original post by 419)
Well yeah, this is actually encouraged. Do it.
Sweet man
0
reply
Mimina
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#202
Report 5 years ago
#202
(Original post by danny111)
Because that opens up the room (or any other room for that matter) for everybody else.
That's exactly the point Societies on campus have been suffering from chaos in room allocation. There is no point for QM to pride itself for raising over a 100k from its alumni through its Annual Fund Campaign. They pay 40 students £10 an hour for 48 hours to call alumni for donations then fail to satisfy the societies' needs! If the room is available why not make use of it! It's a bit sad that they're promoting how great the student life and societies are but refuse to co-operate with this issue.
I love QM and I am thoroughly enjoying my experience there but I really hate contradictions such as this...
0
reply
Mimina
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#203
Report 5 years ago
#203
(Original post by Pessimisterious)
Well I think QM will be fully aware of this thread and have by now seen that the majority of people are actually against the campaign anyway.

Good good.

And no I'm not against Islam. I just think it's kind of outrageous that the society has kicked up such a stink over the rejection of their demand for a major, and continual, freebie.

Posted from TSR Mobile

Oh please explain how only 3000 people signed the petition to support the campaign? People always take this position when it concerns religion especially Islam, then they say it's not against religion/Islam. Little they know that this is more about civil rights and freedom of expression!
0
reply
Origami Bullets
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#204
Report 5 years ago
#204
(Original post by 419)
Stop typing, you're just arguing for the sake of it and making stupid comments such as ...'music is part of education up to the age of 9' when we are talking about university. PE is part of education up to age of 16, no ****ing uni provides any physical activity................ I mean sweet brother malcolm, get a grib. Cba asked with you.
Yes they do. My uni provides three sports centres, sports classes (some of which are free if you live in halls) and funding for 43 different sports societies. Some unis offer degrees in sport science too.

Posted from TSR Mobile
0
reply
Pessimisterious
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#205
Report 5 years ago
#205
(Original post by Mimina)
Little they know that this is more about civil rights and freedom of expression!
Eeeeeeerm nope, it's about a group of people wanting to obtain - for free - the continual use of a major university location. Remember religion is just cult. If I turned up with an army of devil worshippers and asked for the same thing, I'd be rejected in a heartbeat, not because 'oh it's the devil', but because it's a waste of time for the university, nothing educational is coming from any of it. Tell me, seriously, what's the difference between that and any other major organised religion?
0
reply
Marco1
Badges: 15
Rep:
?
#206
Report 5 years ago
#206
A university is a temple of learning and a lecture room is its most sacred room. The expectation of the right to use it as a muslim prayer room at certain times amounts to desecration in my view. The whole proposal is a selfish abomination. At tertiary level, students should have the ability to discern that their religious rituals should be kept out of lecture rooms. What next, calls to prayer from the student union? If you wanna pull that crap, go live in a Caliphate. They love that stuff there, they really do!

University is a actually a superb opportunity to take a step back from the religious dogma of your upbringing, setting it aside while you're there, and testing ideas and assumptions in an environment uninhibited by instilled religious imperatives and absolutes.
1
reply
PopaPork
Badges: 10
Rep:
?
#207
Report 5 years ago
#207
(Original post by Marco1)
University is a actually a superb opportunity to take a step back from the religious dogma of your upbringing, setting it aside while you're there, and testing ideas and assumptions in an environment uninhibited by instilled religious imperatives and absolutes.
Which is why the Isoc want to prevent this from happening

can't have too much of an open mind now can we:rolleyes:

it might result in questions and that ends in hell
0
reply
User1310602
Badges: 2
Rep:
?
#208
Report Thread starter 5 years ago
#208
(Original post by Iqbal007)
Hahahaha the utter amount of non-sense you spouse.........íts quite clear you have a bías in your argument.
One mínute they can campaign next minute or no they shouldn't be, etc you don't decide what is right and what ísn't.....íf they want to campíagn then they can, íf the uníversity wants to change íts mínd then í can, ís símply not up to you.

They can be híred out, but no external group híres it out, mainly internal groups and hence they follow the rules.
OMFG, you must be kidding me! So you’re actually telling me that no other society has ever asked to book either of the halls? The Isoc is the FIRST society to request it and just because QM has denied usage they have started a campaign?! And they still couldn’t take ‘no’ for an answer?! Sounds like you’re arguing against the cause.
I know the scenarios aren’t the same but sentiments involved sure are.Yes universities cater for all people but they do so by recognizing them as individuals with universal needs and requirements. It does NOT cater for every single religion and culture out there. Hence for example not every university in the UK provides halal meet. A mosque is an institution which accommodates Muslim needs, but a university accommodates the universal needs of students. Expecting a university to cater for the private needs of Muslims is as preposterous as asking for a Mosque to meet the public demands of non-Muslims.
I’m not asking Islam to change to suit my needs. I’m sure I’m not the only one who thinks that there is no place for slavery in the modern world. I think it should change to meet the current needs of humanity. If you’re bringing numbers into this then how about this: There about 2 billion Muslims worldwide and there are 5 billion non-Muslims.

Why do you keep stating the obvious? Off course I have a bias. In case you can’t tell, we’re having a debate. The way a debate works is that one person takes on one position and the other person opposes said position. Hence if you are for the case, then I must obviously be against it if we are arguing with each other.

The problem here is that you’re struggling to comprehend the difference between CAN and SHOULD. Although anyone CAN campaign for a cause it does not necessarily mean that they SHOULD. It’s about misusing the rights you have. So if you’re saying it’s up to the university to decide, why couldn’t you accept their initial decision in the first place? You clearly think it's up to the Muslim students to decide. If by internal groups you mean student groups then no, such groups are not private.
1
reply
User1310602
Badges: 2
Rep:
?
#209
Report Thread starter 5 years ago
#209
(Original post by 419)
Stop typing, you're just arguing for the sake of it and making stupid comments such as ...'music is part of education up to the age of 9' when we are talking about university. PE is part of education up to age of 16, no ****ing uni provides any physical activity................ I mean sweet brother malcolm, get a grib. Cba asked with you.
Have you even read my reply? At no point did I say 'music is part of education up to the age of 9'. I said that music education is a part of the national curriculum up until YEAR 9.
Actually nearly all universities provide facilities for sports and physical activity.
You’re becoming overly frustrated and focused on making personal attacks. I don’t agree with your views either but I still manage to keep myself composed for the sake of having a mature argument.
0
reply
Iqbal007
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#210
Report 5 years ago
#210
(Original post by shouldbestudying)
OMFG, you must be kidding me! So you’re actually telling me that no other society has ever asked to book either of the halls? The Isoc is the FIRST society to request it and just because QM has denied usage they have started a campaign?! And they still couldn’t take ‘no’ for an answer?! Sounds like you’re arguing against the cause.

Nope........ISOC has only ever been the only society to actually book the room as far as I'm aware in the last few years......
You just stated that they can campaign if they want..........now your saying they shouldn't be :rolleyes: they have a right to campaign and have every right to do what they can to get the uni to reverse the decision.


I know the scenarios aren’t the same but sentiments involved sure are.Yes universities cater for all people but they do so by recognizing them as individuals with universal needs and requirements. It does NOT cater for every single religion and culture out there. Hence for example not every university in the UK provides halal meet. A mosque is an institution which accommodates Muslim needs, but a university accommodates the universal needs of students. Expecting a university to cater for the private needs of Muslims is as preposterous as asking for a Mosque to meet the public demands of non-Muslims.
I’m not asking Islam to change to suit my needs. I’m sure I’m not the only one who thinks that there is no place for slavery in the modern world. I think it should change to meet the current needs of humanity. If you’re bringing numbers into this then how about this: There about 2 billion Muslims worldwide and there are 5 billion non-Muslims.

:rofl: these sentiments are not the same.........a mosque used by muslims for free, against a university which caters for paying students which have needs.
The university caters for all the societies which exist, including all official religious societies.
What does halal have to do with anything, thats a completely different topic :rolleyes:
Providing prayer facilities which contribute to the well-being of students and so that students don't miss lectures is not a private need at all.

I am just highlighting the sheer stupidity in your argument by going off-topic and demanding a religion to change what they believe is the word of God, it would no longer be, the faith would fall apart because its no longer the word of God but whatever you want it to be


Why do you keep stating the obvious? Off course I have a bias. In case you can’t tell, we’re having a debate. The way a debate works is that one person takes on one position and the other person opposes said position. Hence if you are for the case, then I must obviously be against it if we are arguing with each other.

The problem here is that you’re struggling to comprehend the difference between CAN and SHOULD. Although anyone CAN campaign for a cause it does not necessarily mean that they SHOULD. It’s about misusing the rights you have. So if you’re saying it’s up to the university to decide, why couldn’t you accept their initial decision in the first place? You clearly think it's up to the Muslim students to decide. If by internal groups you mean student groups then no, such groups are not private.
It's really not misusing the rights you have............the rules do not dictate what one can and what one can't do, unless it breaches another rule which the campaign does not. Hence they have right to do so, and in fact the SU, ISOC and many students feel that they should campaign. Again this is subjective, just because you feel they shouldn't does not mean that is fact, its just your opinion.

And again, what I don't get is why you are still debating this..............when the issue itself has been essentially been resolved and the campaign is successful.
0
reply
PopaPork
Badges: 10
Rep:
?
#211
Report 5 years ago
#211
(Original post by Iqbal007)

And again, what I don't get is why you are still debating this..............when the issue itself has been essentially been resolved and the campaign is successful.
Correct me if I'm wrong but hasn't the solution been to open the room up for all societies.

this does mean that the room will have to be shared so this don't really solve the initial issue of the Muslims wanting somewhere to pray every Friday

I know a few people at one SOC at the UNI and they are going to book the room as soon as it becomes widely available to ensure that the room is a shared recourse so I don't think your going to get what you want (in fact we think this will be quite fun as they will have to share the room so when they throw their toys about because other people are using it it will simply reinforce the idea that the iSOC cannot co exist with others)

how do you feel about this?
0
reply
Iqbal007
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#212
Report 5 years ago
#212
(Original post by PopaPork)
Correct me if I'm wrong but hasn't the solution been to open the room up for all societies.

this does mean that the room will have to be shared so this don't really solve the initial issue of the Muslims wanting somewhere to pray every Friday

I know a few people at one SOC at the UNI and they are going to book the room as soon as it becomes widely available to ensure that the room is a shared recourse so I don't think your going to get what you want (in fact we think this will be quite fun as they will have to share the room so when they throw their toys about because other people are using it it will simply reinforce the idea that the iSOC cannot co exist with others)

how do you feel about this?
Yep.........so pretty much the university said that they are going to open the halls when not in use for booking.

Well the ISOC is the only society which actually books the halls, however when they aren't able to use it if the university needs it they try to squeeze into the current prayer rooms which is how it was before.

Booking of rooms including halls aren't "shared", if you book it out, you book the entire thing for whatever time you have it.
Secondly, all booked facilities must be used appropriately and cleaned up otherwise the societies faces penalty for misusing rooms. Even more so if its for the purpose of creating problems and most likely face disciplinary action. And this doesn't really say the "ISOC cannot co exist with others", considering this other SOC is planning to cause trouble so that SOC is the one who can't co exist with others.
0
reply
Ggmu!
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#213
Report 5 years ago
#213
So are you going to get the room? I hope you do, I don't think you're being unreasonable at all.

Posted from TSR Mobile
0
reply
PopaPork
Badges: 10
Rep:
?
#214
Report 5 years ago
#214
(Original post by Iqbal007)
Yep.........so pretty much the university said that they are going to open the halls when not in use for booking.

Well the ISOC is the only society which actually books the halls, however when they aren't able to use it if the university needs it they try to squeeze into the current prayer rooms which is how it was before.

Booking of rooms including halls aren't "shared", if you book it out, you book the entire thing for whatever time you have it.
Secondly, all booked facilities must be used appropriately and cleaned up otherwise the societies faces penalty for misusing rooms. Even more so if its for the purpose of creating problems and most likely face disciplinary action. And this doesn't really say the "ISOC cannot co exist with others", considering this other SOC is planning to cause trouble so that SOC is the one who can't co exist with others.
No they are not planing to 'cause trouble' they are going to request the usage of a shared recourse. It is within their right as a society to do this.

they do not need to explain to you or other societies why they want the room they just need a valid reason.

from speaking to other people at the UNI it looks like they are going to request the room every other week between 3-4 different societies so each society should have access to the room once on a monthly basis on a Friday.

but as I said other societies are going to book the room so be prepared to squeeze in other rooms when needed

but your reply is quite telling as I can already see the toys being prepared, you accuse a SOC of 'causing trouble' because they want to ensure a shared recourse is exactly that 'shared')

So yes well done you have now opened the room up for booking for all SOC's

(but I bet this isn't what you actually wanted)
0
reply
Iqbal007
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#215
Report 5 years ago
#215
(Original post by Ggmu!)
So are you going to get the room? I hope you do, I don't think you're being unreasonable at all.

Posted from TSR Mobile
From the Isoc at QM:

"ISoc and QMSU intend to, if Allah SWT wills, in the coming days resume direct, face to face, discussions with the university, who in their correspondence last week showed a great degree of willingness to accommodate for our religious needs. The university has verbally agreed that ISoc ought to be allowed to book either The Great Hall or The Octagon when either is vacant, and a timetable is currently being drawn up. We will, with the permission of Allah SWT and by His grace, come to a feasible solution in the very near future."
0
reply
Iqbal007
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#216
Report 5 years ago
#216
(Original post by PopaPork)
No they are not planing to 'cause trouble' they are going to request the usage of a shared recourse. It is within their right as a society to do this.

they do not need to explain to you or other societies why they want the room they just need a valid reason.

However they do need to give a reason to the QMSU or uni for the reasoning behind the booking. Especially for the larger rooms.

from speaking to other people at the UNI it looks like they are going to request the room every other week between 3-4 different socialite so each society should have access to the room once on a monthly basis on a Friday.

but as I said other societies are going to book the room so be prepared to squeeze in other rooms when needed

I don't see whats the problem......considering that Muslims will be using an hour a day during midday when everyones got lectures.

but your reply is quite telling as I can already see the toys being prepared, you accuse a SOC of 'causing trouble' because they want to ensure a shared recourse is exactly that 'shared')

So yes well done you have now opened the room up for booking for all SOC's

(but I bet this isn't what you actually wanted)
But you just stated in brackets:

(in fact we think this will be quite fun as they will have to share the room so when they throw their toys about because other people are using it it will simply reinforce the idea that the iSOC cannot co exist with others)
if thats the reasoning behind the bookings then thats completely wrong.

And again, I would like to reiterate that you don't know what I want, you have no right to speak for me or tell me what I am thinking or wanting.
The ISOC has worked had to find a room which can accomodate them for an hour a week, thats all they wanted in this campaign.
0
reply
PopaPork
Badges: 10
Rep:
?
#217
Report 5 years ago
#217
(Original post by Iqbal007)
But you just stated in brackets:



if thats the reasoning behind the bookings then thats completely wrong.

And again, I would like to reiterate that you don't know what I want, you have no right to speak for me or tell me what I am thinking or wanting.
The ISOC has worked had to find a room which can accomodate them for an hour a week, thats all they want.
But it's not the reason. The reason is to ensure a shared resource remains shared.

But we know how some (as you amply demonstrated) will react to this and we believe the reaction will show the iSOC out to be intolerant and incapable of sharing a shared resource (call this the icing on the cake) but this is a simple side effect and not the reason. The reason is that it is shared resource and they want to make sure it is shared (this is called being fair)

We know what the iSOC want which is why we are working against it and ensuring if the room becomes available it must be available to all and to ensure this other SOC's will be booking the room.

You know what would solve this problem and make the iSOC look like a reasonable bunch?

go to a mosque if you want to pray

Seriously go to a mosque as the room will not always be available for you so this will not solve your problem
0
reply
PopaPork
Badges: 10
Rep:
?
#218
Report 5 years ago
#218
(Original post by Iqbal007)
From the Isoc at QM:
The university has verbally agreed that ISoc ought to be allowed to book either The Great Hall or The Octagon when either is vacant, and a timetable is currently being drawn up.
Bless what they missed out is that if they make the room available it has to available to all

and when this happens other SOC's will book them so the UNI have played a bit of a binder here as it clearly says 'when either is vacant'
0
reply
Iqbal007
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#219
Report 5 years ago
#219
(Original post by PopaPork)
But it's not the reason. The reason is to ensure a shared resource remains shared.

But we know how some (as you amply demonstrated) will react to this and we believe the reaction will show the iSOC out to be intolerant and incapable of sharing a shared resource (call this the icing on the cake) but this is a simple side effect and not the reason. The reason is that it is shared resource and they want to make sure it is shared (this is called being fair)

I am just making sure that the SOC you're talking about, doesn't want to use it for ill means thats all. If its being used for a genuine reason thats all.

We know what the iSOC want which is why we are working against it and ensuring if the room becomes available it must be available to all and to ensure this other SOC's will be booking the room.

The ISOC want a room to pray in on a friday that hold everyone, thats what they've been working towards.

You know what would solve this problem and make the iSOC look like a reasonable bunch?

go to a mosque if you want to pray

Seriously go to a mosque as the room will not always be available for you so this will not solve your problem
Actually again if you looked on this thread, you'll realise that the locals mosque of which only one is in reasonable distance cannot accomodate the Muslim students after being talked to.

(Original post by PopaPork)
Bless what they missed out is that if they make the room available it has to available to all

and when this happens other SOC's will book them so the UNI have played a bit of a binder here as it clearly says 'when either is vacant'
I have no idea whats going on, theres a SU meeting on tuesday when it becomes clearer.
0
reply
PopaPork
Badges: 10
Rep:
?
#220
Report 5 years ago
#220
(Original post by Iqbal007)
Actually again if you looked on this thread, you'll realise that the locals mosque of which only one is in reasonable distance cannot accomodate the Muslim students after being talked to.
So they should find or create their own space

they should not be making such demands of the UNI

but as I said this isn't going to solve the issue for them in fact they may end up looking really bad over this.

but as I said don't be surprised if they don't get their own way or what they are offered isn't what they wanted.

But as I said other SOCs are now watching to see how this pans out
0
reply
X

Quick Reply

Attached files
Write a reply...
Reply
new posts
Latest
My Feed

See more of what you like on
The Student Room

You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

Personalise

How did your Edexcel GCSE Maths Paper 1 go?

Loved the paper - feeling positive (32)
22.22%
The paper was reasonable (61)
42.36%
Not feeling great about that exam (27)
18.75%
It was TERRIBLE (24)
16.67%

Watched Threads

View All