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What percentage of blame, if at all any, rests with the victim during rape? Watch

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    (Original post by jammy4041)
    While I sort of understand what you are getting at, it is a false comparison: rape cannot be compared to mugging. Even in that instance, people who choose to commit crimes are always responsible for the crime taking place, therefore it follows self control is a neccessary pre-requisite for the prevention of crimes.
    I understand that. Self-control is the prevention needed from the perpetrator.

    Do you believe prevention measures are needed on the part of the victim to do as much as possible to stop a crime from occurring?
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    (Original post by pane123)
    I really do hate people like you. Men should be taught not to rape? How dare you. I know fine well not to rape women.
    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    That's patronising and insulting. I do not need to be taught not to rape. The men who do rape are not going to respond to nicey-nice education campaigns, particularly not those organised by feminists. They will respond only to prison.
    (Original post by silverbolt)
    I really hate this judgement its total BS. 99.99% of men already know not to rape, they dont need to be taught it.

    And to those who will rape teaching its wrong isnt going to stop them.



    This is true. In an ideal world women and men can wear what they like, go where they like, see who they like, stagger around drunk out thier gourd and be fine. But we dont live in an ideal world. Whilst i would never blame the victim the same as avoiding getting mugged you can take precautions. THat being said getting raped by a stranger is surpassed by being raped by someone you know.
    (Original post by MostUncivilised)
    That is a ****ing outrageous comment, as if most men are rapists just waiting for a trigger. That is deeply offensive, sexist, misandrist crap.

    And it seems like you would rather more women were raped, than concede any education about women making themselves more safe when they go out. That is an incredibly cynical, evil, point of view that is essentially trading more rape in exchange for your own feeling of sanctimonious self-righteousness. Would you call it victim-blaming for cyclists to be educated to wear a helmet and to keep safe in traffic, even though it might not be their fault if they are hit?

    No wonder feminism is going backwards compared to where it was 20 years ago
    Wow. I'd read all the stuff about "Not all men" before, but I never expected such a clear demonstration. Thanks guys.

    It is of course true that not all men are rapists. However, that is not the point and it is not helpful. It is putting yourself at the centre of an argument that is not about you, but about the millions of women who are victims of rape. You have the privilege of not having to worry about rape, because you are men. Even though you are not, so far as I am aware, rapists, that still means you're in a position where you don't need to be in the middle. Women know not all men are rapists. Unfortunately, we also know that there is no way to tell whether you, as an individual, are or not - women are raped by strangers, they are raped by friends, they are raped by family members. We are raped by people we hate, people we don't know, and people we would have trusted with our lives.

    The other aspect to this is that whilst not all men are rapists, nearly all rapists are men. And rape is not an isolated occurrence - it is the culmination of a culture in which men feel entitled to be at the centre of every discussion, where they hold power over women and are in a privileged position simply because of their gender. That's why we need to have a discussion about masculinity and rape. Only be addressing the issues that all men either perpetrate or resist against can we address why some men take this as far as committing rape and taking complete power over a woman. To do that, we need to acknowledge that rape culture does exist, that is effects each and every one of us, and that just because you yourself are not a rapist does not mean you are exempt from any inclusion in the issue or that you can interrupt a discussion about how to combat it and demand it is centred around yourself.
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    (Original post by Saoirse:3)
    Wow. I'd read all the stuff about "Not all men" before, but I never expected such a clear demonstration. Thanks guys.

    It is of course true that not all men are rapists. However, that is not the point and it is not helpful. It is putting yourself at the centre of an argument that is not about you, but about the millions of women who are victims of rape. You have the privilege of not having to worry about rape, because you are men. Even though you are not, so far as I am aware, rapists, that still means you're in a position where you don't need to be in the middle. Women know not all men are rapists. Unfortunately, we also know that there is no way to tell whether you, as an individual, are or not - women are raped by strangers, they are raped by friends, they are raped by family members. We are raped by people we hate, people we don't know, and people we would have trusted with our lives.
    What you need to understand is that when you say 'teach men not to rape' you're encompassing all men and insinuating that we are 'taught to rape'. So naturally, some will take issue with that. Although I do agree in that the grounds of consent should be discussed by all means.

    The other aspect to this is that whilst not all men are rapists, nearly all rapists are men. And rape is not an isolated occurrence - it is the culmination of a culture in which men feel entitled to be at the centre of every discussion, where they hold power over women and are in a privileged position simply because of their gender. That's why we need to have a discussion about masculinity and rape. Only be addressing the issues that all men either perpetrate or resist against can we address why some men take this as far as committing rape and taking complete power over a woman. To do that, we need to acknowledge that rape culture does exist, that is effects each and every one of us, and that just because you yourself are not a rapist does not mean you are exempt from any inclusion in the issue or that you can interrupt a discussion about how to combat it and demand it is centred around yourself.
    How do you define rape culture? I would agree that there are circles of individuals who uphold a 'rape culture', but our society as a whole? No.

    And I can only speak for myself, but I don't combat discussions about rape, I'm all for it. But, if you make assertions which I find a bit bold, I and others will criticize them. I'm open to being corrected.

    Also, what does masculinity have to rape? Please elaborate.
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    (Original post by Saoirse:3)
    Wow. I'd read all the stuff about "Not all men" before, but I never expected such a clear demonstration. Thanks guys.

    It is of course true that not all men are rapists. However, that is not the point and it is not helpful. It is putting yourself at the centre of an argument that is not about you, but about the millions of women who are victims of rape. You have the privilege of not having to worry about rape, because you are men. Even though you are not, so far as I am aware, rapists, that still means you're in a position where you don't need to be in the middle. Women know not all men are rapists. Unfortunately, we also know that there is no way to tell whether you, as an individual, are or not - women are raped by strangers, they are raped by friends, they are raped by family members. We are raped by people we hate, people we don't know, and people we would have trusted with our lives.

    The other aspect to this is that whilst not all men are rapists, nearly all rapists are men. And rape is not an isolated occurrence - it is the culmination of a culture in which men feel entitled to be at the centre of every discussion, where they hold power over women and are in a privileged position simply because of their gender. That's why we need to have a discussion about masculinity and rape. Only be addressing the issues that all men either perpetrate or resist against can we address why some men take this as far as committing rape and taking complete power over a woman. To do that, we need to acknowledge that rape culture does exist, that is effects each and every one of us, and that just because you yourself are not a rapist does not mean you are exempt from any inclusion in the issue or that you can interrupt a discussion about how to combat it and demand it is centred around yourself.
    Oh God, what have I just read?

    Is rape a daily occurrence where you're from? I will never, ever acknowledge the existence of 'rape culture'.
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    (Original post by Saoirse:3)
    Wow. I'd read all the stuff about "Not all men" before, but I never expected such a clear demonstration. Thanks guys.

    It is of course true that not all men are rapists. However, that is not the point and it is not helpful. It is putting yourself at the centre of an argument that is not about you, but about the millions of women who are victims of rape. You have the privilege of not having to worry about rape, because you are men. Even though you are not, so far as I am aware, rapists, that still means you're in a position where you don't need to be in the middle. Women know not all men are rapists. Unfortunately, we also know that there is no way to tell whether you, as an individual, are or not - women are raped by strangers, they are raped by friends, they are raped by family members. We are raped by people we hate, people we don't know, and people we would have trusted with our lives.
    Yep, just the same as you can't tell whether an individual Muslim is going to touch a wire in his backpack and blow the place to smithereens. Better live in a state of unwarranted fear and teach Muslims not to blow stuff up, hadn't we? Sort it out please.

    The other aspect to this is that whilst not all men are rapists, nearly all rapists are men. And rape is not an isolated occurrence - it is the culmination of a culture in which men feel entitled to be at the centre of every discussion, where they hold power over women and are in a privileged position simply because of their gender. That's why we need to have a discussion about masculinity and rape.
    Sorry, that is simply bull****. Men are not privileged by their gender. Both men and women exert power over other men and women. Even if the world were all about men oppressing women, rape is hardly the "culmination of that culture". Rapists are rightly condemned and vilified and it is normal in societies without the rule of law for rapists to be strung up from the nearest tree by a posse of the woman's relatives. Rapists are second only to child molesters and cold-blooded murderers in the perceived severity of their crimes.

    Only be addressing the issues that all men either perpetrate or resist against can we address why some men take this as far as committing rape and taking complete power over a woman. To do that, we need to acknowledge that rape culture does exist, that is effects each and every one of us, and that just because you yourself are not a rapist does not mean you are exempt from any inclusion in the issue or that you can interrupt a discussion about how to combat it and demand it is centred around yourself.
    Rape culture does not exist, since rape is condemned in every culture around the world, however paternalistic it is. Obviously there should be no official punishments/honour killings of women (alongside the male rapists) who have supposedly besmirched the family name by being raped, but that has nothing to do with a culture that supposedly "supports rape".

    It has to do with a collectivist agrarian culture with no social security wherein the economic value of children is paramount, since daughters do not have as much capacity to work they are therefore married for a dowry, this generates the concept of women as chattel and the asset value of virginity. It is disgusting and inhuman but it doesn't have anything to do with a culture that supports rape. #mansplaining
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    (Original post by Saoirse:3)
    Wow. I'd read all the stuff about "Not all men" before, but I never expected such a clear demonstration. Thanks guys.

    It is of course true that not all men are rapists. However, that is not the point and it is not helpful. It is putting yourself at the centre of an argument that is not about you, but about the millions of women who are victims of rape.
    I don't think I've ever read such self-serving bolloks. You say it's not about us, I'll say; your self-righteous, sanctimonious parade clearly made it all about you. I don't think I've ever seen a woman respond so gleefully to the subject of rape. One wonders why you are so excited by it.

    ou have the privilege of not having to worry about rape, because you are men.
    So men can't be raped!? Are you serious? What misandrist nonsense
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    It's not acceptable to say somebody has to 'reduce their risk to rape.' It's a horrific crime that our youngsters should be educated on anyway. You can reduce the risk of being hit by a lightning bolt by not going outside too.

    It's a basic tenet of personal freedom to have the right to do as you please as long as it doesn't harm anybody. If a girl wants to wear a short skirt and tight top, that's up to her. She shouldn't have to change the way she behaves because some people are animals.
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    (Original post by Saoirse:3)
    The other aspect to this is that whilst not all men are rapists, nearly all rapists are men. And rape is not an isolated occurrence - it is the culmination of a culture in which men feel entitled to be at the centre of every discussion, where they hold power over women and are in a privileged position simply because of their gender. That's why we need to have a discussion about masculinity and rape. Only be addressing the issues that all men either perpetrate or resist against can we address why some men take this as far as committing rape and taking complete power over a woman. To do that, we need to acknowledge that rape culture does exist, that is effects each and every one of us, and that just because you yourself are not a rapist does not mean you are exempt from any inclusion in the issue or that you can interrupt a discussion about how to combat it and demand it is centred around yourself.
    What have you been smoking?
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    There should be no blame put on the victim. They didn't ask for it, that's why it's rape
    If we lived in an ideal world, people would be able to dress how they want, etc without fear of being raped. However, sometimes it seems that how a person dresses speaks louder than the word 'No'
    As we don't live in an ideal world, I think precautions need to be taken e.g not walking home alone at night for our own safety (again you shouldn't have to take precautions, but unfortunately sometimes you just have to in order to be kept safe)
    That being said, if women (or men) don't take these precautions in order to keep themselves safe, it still doesn't mean they are asking for it.
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    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    Men are not privileged by their gender.
    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    Rape culture does not exist
    I need to keep to the creative arts section of this forum... honestly reading this thread makes me so stressed and utterly bemused. Seeing this kind of stuff just proves to me we have a long way to go. Men aren't privileged by their gender? I don't know where to begin with this one... makes me feel a little lucky that i'm surrounded by good people who don't say such moronic things.

    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    It has to do with a collectivist agrarian culture with no social security wherein the economic value of children is paramount, since daughters do not have as much capacity to work they are therefore married for a dowry, this generates the concept of women as chattel and the asset value of virginity. It is disgusting and inhuman but it doesn't have anything to do with a culture that supports rape. #mansplaining
    Proper mind boggling. Please seek help asap.
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    Oh god it gets worse, i hadn't read some of the posts above!

    Poster gets angry, says a rape culture doesn't exist.

    In the next sentence poster says women should make themselves more safe when they go out so they're not raped. Then they compare rape to a cyclist getting hit by a car.

    Was someone looking for proof a rape culture? Just read this thread. Cheers.
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    (Original post by lppm)
    Oh god it gets worse, i hadn't read some of the posts above!

    Poster gets angry, says a rape culture doesn't exist.

    In the next sentence poster says women should make themselves more safe when they go out so they're not raped. Then they compare rape to a cyclist getting hit by a car.

    Was someone looking for proof a rape culture? Just read this thread. Cheers.
    Could you elaborate further on why you believe rape culture exists? I'm actually interested in knowing the rationale behind this.
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    Depends entirely on the circumstances whether sharing blame is justified.
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    (Original post by lppm)
    I need to keep to the creative arts section of this forum... honestly reading this thread makes me so stressed and utterly bemused. Seeing this kind of stuff just proves to me we have a long way to go. Men aren't privileged by their gender? I don't know where to begin with this one... makes me feel a little lucky that i'm surrounded by good people who don't say such moronic things.



    Proper mind boggling. Please seek help asap.
    So I assume a working-class man has more power in society than an upper-class woman then. If you are going to say I'm wrong, don't just quote dogma at me, advance an alternative hypothesis, say for the reasons for the emergence of societies which treat women as property. Because I'm afraid at the moment mine is winning.

    If not, please do keep to the creative arts, nothing is more of a creative art than the feminist interpretation of history...
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    (Original post by MostUncivilised)
    I don't think I've ever read such self-serving bolloks. You say it's not about us, I'll say; your self-righteous, sanctimonious parade clearly made it all about you. I don't think I've ever seen a woman respond so gleefully to the subject of rape. One wonders why you are so excited by it.



    So men can't be raped!? Are you serious? What misandrist nonsense


    It's a rare enough occurrence that men do not have to take any precautions to avoid it nor have cause to worry about it unless there is something making them particularly vulnerable.

    (Original post by samba)
    What have you been smoking?
    Nothing unfortunately, I do wish they'd hurry up with legalising some of that
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    (Original post by Saoirse:3)
    It's a rare enough occurrence that men do not have to take any precautions to avoid it
    What kind of mealy-mouthed, hypocritical, self-serving justification is that? Why should men take any precautions? You said that women should not have to take any precautions because that implies victim-blaming, but now you're saying the fact men don't take precautions somehow confers some kind of "privilege"?

    You said that "men don't have to worry about being raped", which is effectively saying men do not get raped. That demonstrates your utter contempt for the suffering and trauma of male rape victims, and that your adherence to your ideological doctrines is about dominating men and the exercise of power, not a true effort to find equality between the sexes. You seem to be wilfully deaf to the cries of traumatised male rape victims. To you, they deserved it because they are men?

    nor have cause to worry about it unless there is something making them particularly vulnerable.
    "Something making them particularly vulnerable"; interesting choice of words. It's almost like you're saying that by their own actions they might make themselves vulnerable, in other words, victim-blaming. But please do tell; what might make them particularly vulnerable?
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    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    So I assume a working-class man has more power in society than an upper-class woman then
    You just raised the most salient touchstone of class/gender intersectionality (to lean on their own vocabulary). The fact is that an upper-class woman has far more power than a working-class man.

    If we were in a patriarchy, that would not be the case; a man would always outrank a woman. This alone pokes a massive hole in the feminist position
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    (Original post by Saoirse:3)
    None what so ever. Men should be taught not to rape, rather than women being taught not to get raped - only those who commit rape can completely prevent it from happening, no matter what the victim wears, where they walk, or what time they travel at.
    This implies that men aren't taught not to rape, which would be completely incorrect.

    Rather, those that rape are doing so with full knowledge that it is something that they shouldn't be doing.

    The logical conclusion would be to try and protect those whom could potentially become the victim of such a horrific act.
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    Ohhh boy lol Well it depends. Lots of time especially in my culture they try to pin back to female and say she was being loose and that. Sometimes women are not mindful of how they act yes but you never suspect that just because you're sexy or attractive or innocent flirting that you will be raped? Also, yes she shouldn't go with man especially late or alone, or let man in her home but why should a woman leave in fear? Women also need to dress with more dignity but there are cases where children are raped or women wearing regular clothes. So it's hard. The only time it's her fault is if she literally said yes then literally said no, or if she got drunk and couldn't take of herself :rolleyes: Other than that I'm sorry rape is just unjustified :indiff:
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    I meant live in fear but whatever lol
 
 
 
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