Boys & Feminism Watch

James Milibanter
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#201
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#201
(Original post by Birkenhead)
It is obvious from your other posts that you are troll, but in case anyone takes this seriously look at the figures about domestic violence. The most recent crime survey found that while 7% of women and 4% of men experience domestic violence, at trial 93% of defendants are men and 84% of victims are women. The only possible sexism I can see going on here is towards men.
I fail to see your point here, this is either because men get let off or because men do not report it when it happens to them. The former is quite clearly evidence of the oppression of women and the latter is a coherent result of patriarchal society which expresses male dominance over females, so much so that getting attacked by a women becomes emasculating and embarrassing.
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James Milibanter
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#202
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#202
(Original post by Birkenhead)
I don't agree that in today's society women are especially oppressed. In a great many cases the only oppression one could see as going on is towards men.

It is not about drawing conclusions about the movement from its name, but in drawing the connection between the name and the ulterior motives of the movement's members and the concentration of its efforts towards women, despite claiming to be supportive of gender equality.
Well if you still fail to see that women are oppressed in today's society whilst active on this particular thread then you are quite blatantly ignorant, there's absolutely no sugar-coating it, all of the examples of oppression against women are available here and all of the "examples" of men being oppressed, it seems, are of a direct result of the patriarchal society we live in. If you STILL do not see the need for feminism, then there is no hope for you.
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Birkenhead
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#203
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#203
(Original post by James Milibanter)
I fail to see your point here, this is either because men get let off or because men do not report it when it happens to them. The former is quite clearly evidence of the oppression of women
No it isn't. Please explain.

The idea that men are committing anywhere near 100% of cases of domestic violence against other men is insane. The point I am making is that the slightly higher incidence of domestic violence against women by individual men and women is not evidence of sexist social attitudes toward women. Society's reaction, and the attitudes of the police and legal system is, however, evidence of institutional sexism towards men in this area. If we lived in a society where the genders were equal there would be far more male victims and far more female defendants in domestic violence trials. It is completely invalid to cite domestic violence as evidence of female oppression in society.

and the latter is a coherent result of patriarchal society which expresses male dominance over females, so much so that getting attacked by a women becomes emasculating and embarrassing.
Excluding use of the term 'patriarchy', I would agree with this. It is not something I think feminism has done anything to or has any intention to correct, however.
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James Milibanter
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#204
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#204
(Original post by Birkenhead)
No it isn't. Please explain.

The idea that men are committing anywhere near 100% of cases of domestic violence against other men is insane. The point I am making is that the slightly higher incidence of domestic violence against women by individual men and women is not evidence of sexist social attitudes toward women. Society's reaction, and the attitudes of the police and legal system is, however, evidence of institutional sexism towards men in this area. If we lived in a society where the genders were equal there would be far more male victims and far more female defendants in cases of domestic violence. It is completely invalid to cite domestic violence as evidence of female oppression in society.



Excluding use of the term 'patriarchy', I would agree with this. It is not something I think feminism has done or has any intention of correcting, however.
Ignoring the patriarchy does not make it disappear...
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Birkenhead
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#205
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#205
(Original post by James Milibanter)
Well if you still fail to see that women are oppressed in today's society whilst active on this particular thread then you are quite blatantly ignorant, there's absolutely no sugar-coating it, all of the examples of oppression against women are available here and all of the "examples" of men being oppressed, it seems, are of a direct result of the patriarchal society we live in. If you STILL do not see the need for feminism, then there is no hope for you.
Your 'argument' here consists solely of insulting me and telling me that I am wrong. It is not a persuasive case.
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James Milibanter
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#206
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#206
(Original post by Birkenhead)
You are not a rewarding debating opponent.
I just fail to see any rationality behind your idea that "men are oppressed". Whom are they oppressed by? women on the other hand, have a really decent case. I don't nearly have to worry as much about being raped than a woman does. The only worry I have about leaving my drink behind in a bar is that someone might nick it. I do not get harassed. I get paid 15% more than a women for the SAME work regardless of the Equal Pay Act. Yes, I can get beaten up, but so can a woman and there are issues that mainly effect women and it is my duty as a member of the same society to support the oppressed, not for personal gain, but for the sake of morality, doing the right thing! Ignoring a problem doesn't solve it.
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Eva.Gregoria
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#207
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#207
(Original post by Olderandwiser23)
I really wish you could be a woman in a first world country just for a day. I really do.

Posted from TSR Mobile
I'm a woman in a first world country, what now?

I agree with that poster, I've lived in both first and third world countries (most of my life in a third world country actually) and I do feel like women here complain about almost nothing.
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TolerantBeing
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#208
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#208
(Original post by Spetznaaz)
Well you'd have to tell them a pack of outrageous lies, else they will realise modern day feminism is poison.
The only relation it has to poison is that for some reason you feel threatened by it, or fear of it. However unlike with poison, your fears aren't justified.
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James Milibanter
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#209
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#209
(Original post by Birkenhead)
Your 'argument' here consists solely of insulting me and telling me that I am wrong. It is not a persuasive case.
I am growing tired of repeating myself and stating the obvious, my apologies.:mad:
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James Milibanter
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#210
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#210
(Original post by Eva.Gregoria)
I'm a woman in a first world country, what now?

I agree with that poster, I've lived in both first and third world countries (most of my life in a third world country actually) and I do feel like women here complain about almost nothing.
Rape and violence against women =/= nothing
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SnoochToTheBooch
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#211
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#211
(Original post by Olderandwiser23)
Because god forbid should a term mention women in anyway.


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The first thing out of a feminist's mouth when asked to defend feminism is usually something along the lines of 'feminism is about equality for both genders', which rings really hollow when the name is basically 'womanism' and they want/need to get the male world on board with their cause.
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Eva.Gregoria
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#212
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#212
(Original post by James Milibanter)
Rape and violence against women =/= nothing
Rape and violence against women happen everywhere. It won't ever be completely eradicated.

It occurs at a far more significant rate in third world countries.

There is most likely not even a law protecting female victims like they do in first world countries.

If a law does exist, it's usually her word against his and it's obvious which they end up believing.

Edit: anyway my issue isn't with rape and violence as those are legitimate issues, we all know most feminists are usually obsessed with banning page 3 of the sun or drawing attention from a scientific miracle because a scientist decided to wear his favourite shirt.
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Birkenhead
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#213
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#213
(Original post by James Milibanter)
I just fail to see any rationality behind your idea that "men are oppressed". Whom are they oppressed by? women on the other hand, have a really decent case. I don't nearly have to worry as much about being raped than a woman does. The only worry I have about leaving my drink behind in a bar is that someone might nick it. I do not get harassed. I get paid 15% more than a women for the SAME work regardless of the Equal Pay Act. Yes, I can get beaten up, but so can a woman and there are issues that mainly effect women and it is my duty as a member of the same society to support the oppressed, not for personal gain, but for the sake of morality, doing the right thing! Ignoring a problem doesn't solve it.
Please cite a credible source that women are paid 15% less for the same work.

I have never said that men are 'oppressed'. I have said that neither gender is more oppressed than the other, and that men have just as much if not more to deal with as regards discrimination in contemporary society. I have given examples and explanations in previous posts, and my arguments are clear and very understandable to anyone with a working proficiency of the English language.

The fact that women are more likely to be raped is the result of a very small number of individuals and not the work of society. Rape is a crime that is punishable by a maximum term of life imprisonment.

Ignoring a problem doesn't solve it, but focusing on a problem that doesn't exist doesn't solve it either.
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James Milibanter
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#214
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#214
(Original post by SnoochToTheBooch)
The first thing out of a feminist's mouth when asked to defend feminism is usually something along the lines of 'feminism is about equality for both genders', which rings really hollow when the name is basically 'womanism' and they want/need to get the male world on board with their cause.
I really hate repeating myself
"well considering that it are the women in society that are being oppressed, and that the movement is to stop that, I personally do not see a problem with it being known as "feminism". The fact that it refers to women does not deter me at all, if it did then I would obviously have such a level of ignorance that meant i couldn't look beyond the name of a movement before drawing my conclusions onto it. "
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Birkenhead
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#215
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#215
(Original post by James Milibanter)
I really hate repeating myself
"well considering that it are the women in society that are being oppressed, and that the movement is to stop that, I personally do not see a problem with it being known as "feminism". The fact that it refers to women does not deter me at all, if it did then I would obviously have such a level of ignorance that meant i couldn't look beyond the name of a movement before drawing my conclusions onto it. "
I'm not a fan of repeating myself either:

'I don't agree that in today's society women are especially oppressed. In a great many cases the only oppression one could see as going on is towards men.

It is not about drawing conclusions about the movement from its name, but in drawing the connection between the name and the ulterior motives of the movement's members and the concentration of its efforts towards women, despite claiming to be supportive of gender equality.'
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James Milibanter
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#216
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#216
(Original post by Birkenhead)
Please cite a credible source that women are paid 15% less for the same work.

I have never said that men are 'oppressed'. I have said that neither gender is more oppressed than the other, and that men have just as much if not more to deal with as regards discrimination in contemporary society. I have given examples and explanations in previous posts, and my arguments are clear and very understandable to anyone with a working proficiency of the English language.

The fact that women are more likely to be raped is the result of a very small number of individuals and not the work of society. Rape is a crime that is punishable by a maximum term of life imprisonment.

Ignoring a problem doesn't solve it, but focusing on a problem that doesn't exist doesn't solve it either.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...pay-gap-audits
A nice little piece of evidence from 2012, not recent enough? Try 2014...
https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...er_Pay_Gap.pdf
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SnoochToTheBooch
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#217
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#217
(Original post by James Milibanter)
I really hate repeating myself
"well considering that it are the women in society that are being oppressed, and that the movement is to stop that, I personally do not see a problem with it being known as "feminism". The fact that it refers to women does not deter me at all, if it did then I would obviously have such a level of ignorance that meant i couldn't look beyond the name of a movement before drawing my conclusions onto it. "
First sentence in this thread is "How can we get more boys to see that feminism benefits them too?".
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James Milibanter
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#218
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#218
(Original post by SnoochToTheBooch)
First sentence in this thread is "How can we get more boys to see that feminism benefits them too?".
well try reading some of the thread and you will see.
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Birkenhead
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#219
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#219
(Original post by James Milibanter)
http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...pay-gap-audits
A nice little piece of evidence from 2012, not recent enough? Try 2014...
https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...er_Pay_Gap.pdf
Providing a twenty-two page report and a journalistic article hundreds of words long is not 'citing evidence'. You have to be specific about the parts of either or these documents that supports your claim that women are paid 15% less for the same work.
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James Milibanter
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#220
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#220
(Original post by Birkenhead)
Providing a twenty-two page report and a journalistic article hundreds of words long is not 'citing evidence'. You have to be specific about the parts of either or these documents that supports your claim that women are paid 15% less for the same work.
Feeling a little Lazy, are we?
Well the article itself mentions the 15% gender pay gap, and the pdf Government journal does nothing but highlight how the pay gap is consistent. Whether or not it is still 15% is not the point, the point is that there is still a pay gap, and as long a women are valued less in labour, they are valued less in society and therefore feminism is needed.
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