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eskimo_rising
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#201
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#201
(Original post by StormXibalba)
To answer your question OP, you don't remember what happened, if you consented to having sex but the forgot, thats not rape. Did he take advantage of you? Maybe, but thats not rape either. The truth is only he knows for sure.

For all the people jumping the gun and saying she was raped. Im a bit sick of everyone jumping to the conclusion that if a woman is drunk and has sex then she was raped because she can't consent to it. She's not a child, men and women can be drunk and still make decisions. Its also very insulting to women who are actually rape victims to conflate two different scenarios.
We are talking about law here not opinion, and with the recent changes to the law it most certainly does fit the description of rape. YOU are giving out outmoded information to confirm your own opinion, not fair on the OP. Reread the mod notes on the opening post. What your doing is ignoring recent changes in law to support your opinion and it's dangerous and unfair.
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LutherVan
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#202
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#202
(Original post by StormXibalba)
We are talking specifically about CONSENT, if your idea is that a man can consent when he's drunk because he has a penis but a woman has a vagina and is unable to consent when drunk then we disagree.

Am i saying men can be raped by women? Well no not really ( i can think of a few limited scenarios but to be easy lets say that the answer is no). But what we're discussing is consent, which happens in the mind and is verbally or physically shown. Consent IS equal, if you state she was too drunk too consent to having sex, but would not state the same about a man in those circumstances then you're simply wrong.

Its pretty patronising by the way, this idea that women can't consent once they're intoxicated but men are able to consent no matter how drunk they are.
Very well said.
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StormXibalba
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#203
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#203
(Original post by eskimo_rising)
We are talking about law here not opinion, and with the recent changes to the law it most certainly does fit the description of rape. YOU are giving out outmoded information to confirm your own opinion, not fair on the OP. Reread the mod notes on the opening post. What your doing is ignoring recent changes in law to support your opinion and it's dangerous and unfair.
Well actually her question was, "was I raped?" and my answer to the OP was "you don't know" which is factually correct, unlike your opinion.

Also the recent changes are so obviously wrong to anyone with half a brain cell. It shouldn't be the job of the accused to prove someone consented, it should be up to the prosecution to prove a case, not the other way around. Innocent until proven guilty and thats been the underpining of the law for a lot longer than last year
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HuggleyDuck
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#204
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#204
Yes, I believe that is rape as you clearly weren't in a condition to consent. You need to contact a medical professional and the police.
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caiitliin
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#205
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#205
(Original post by LutherVan)
You are completely right.

This is EXACTLY how it works for drunk men.
You are so irrelevant it hurts.

We are talking about a drunk girl, guy seems to have a near perfect/sober recollection of events. Don't give a crap about the laws regarding rape against men right now, it's just not relevant, and is just such an MRA point to bring up, because it has literally only been mentioned to derail an argument that paints a man in a bad light and gives sympathy to a rape victim. Get on topic please.
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macromicro
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#206
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#206
(Original post by StormXibalba)
We are talking specifically about CONSENT, if your idea is that a man can consent when he's drunk because he has a penis but a woman has a vagina and is unable to consent when drunk then we disagree.

Am i saying men can be raped by women? Well no not really ( i can think of a few limited scenarios but to be easy lets say that the answer is no). But what we're discussing is consent, which happens in the mind and is verbally or physically shown. Consent IS equal, if you state she was too drunk too consent to having sex, but would not state the same about a man in those circumstances then you're simply wrong.

Its pretty patronising by the way, this idea that women can't consent once they're intoxicated but men are able to consent no matter how drunk they are.
First, as I originally corrected you, you can consent when drunk but cannot give effective consent if too drunk.

If your question is whether a man can give effective consent when too drunk then the answer is no - the woman would be committing sexual assault.
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greeneyedgirl
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#207
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#207
(Original post by LutherVan)
Are you sure it is even considered sexual assualt when a woman has sex with a drunk man or it is regarded as his lucky day under the law?

I still disagree with you about consent.

If you cannot give consent, you did not struggle and are not passed out, how are we to know if it is rape except we have CCTV?

How do we know how drunk she was?

This assumed guilt is what was used to convict Ched Evans who was an innocent man.

It is a dangerous law that is sexist and not good for humanity.
Yes I am sure because I actually bother to investigate things like this as it part of my degree.

I'm not going to bother going round in circles with you anymore. The law states clearly what consent is, and if you want to disagree with that, then you are being foolish and could end up in a lot of trouble, so I would suggest looking into it before that is the case.
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greeneyedgirl
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#208
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#208
These give some really good introductions to consent if people are genuinely interested in finding out more about consent and what it actually is. I'm going to leave this thread now because I feel slightly like I'm hitting my head against a brick wall.



Or if you don't want to listen to a female



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ngb9320
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#209
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#209
It happened to me a few months ago. I made a thread saying the exact same words 'I never thought I would be in this station's.My drink was spiked and I have vague memories of being sexually assaulted. It did feel like my life was over. I thought there is no way I will get over this, I am going to just think about this every single day for the rest of my live. I admit it was hard for the first few months and I couldn't function probably- missed my exams in the first semester. However, about a month ago it just went away and it hasn't effected me since. Though of course that is not to Sat it won't pop up in the future.
The point is op it will eventually get better as people kept saying to me. Talking with someone helped me a lot, maybe it will help you too.
If you want to press charges and you want any chance of being successful you need to report it to the police as soon as possible and go to the doctors and get yourself checked out- that is very important.

STAY STRONG OP YOU WILL GET THROUGH THIS.
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DIN-NARYU-FARORE
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#210
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#210
(Original post by Anonymous)
I never ever thought id post a thread like this.
Last night, i got very drunk and was split up from my friends in a club. My memory went after that. The next thing I know I'm waking up with a guy who tells me we had sex, tells me i was sick in a taxi, sick on myself, he showered me and then put me to bed.. and then we had sex..
I can't wrap my head around this.. is this rape? I obviously wasn't in a fit state, I never would choose to have a one night stand,
I really don't know what to do.
I don't even know him at all.
I can't stop crying, I feel really odd, like I've never felt how I do right now.

Mod edit: Please note that this is not a debate thread, give helpful advice to the OP only. Unhelpful/unsupportive advice will be removed and you may receive a card
You were raped. No debate.

get help immediately
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LutherVan
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#211
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#211
(Original post by caiitliin)
You are so irrelevant it hurts.

We are talking about a drunk girl, guy seems to have a near perfect/sober recollection of events. Don't give a crap about the laws regarding rape against men right now, it's just not relevant, and is just such an MRA point to bring up, because it has literally only been mentioned to derail an argument that paints a man in a bad light and gives sympathy to a rape victim. Get on topic please.
I had doubts about the existence of complete and utter stupidity in this world. They are gone.

Now I know that it is impossible for men to be completely drunk, only women can be.

Men will always have a near perfect/sober recollection of events if they are drunk and have sex. Only women can't. That is why we have a law that states only a women is incapable of giving consent when drunk. Men can be assumed to have.

A world full of geniuses!
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LutherVan
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#212
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#212
(Original post by greeneyedgirl)
Yes I am sure because I actually bother to investigate things like this as it part of my degree.

I'm not going to bother going round in circles with you anymore. The law states clearly what consent is, and if you want to disagree with that, then you are being foolish and could end up in a lot of trouble, so I would suggest looking into it before that is the case.
What is foolish is to say you cannot question a law (that is unfair and wrong) simply because it is the law.
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LutherVan
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#213
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#213
(Original post by StormXibalba)
Well actually her question was, "was I raped?" and my answer to the OP was "you don't know" which is factually correct, unlike your opinion.
Because she does not know, some people think it makes sense for us to assume she was raped and then jail the person.

And to them, that makes sense.

(Original post by StormXibalba)
Also the recent changes are so obviously wrong to anyone with half a brain cell. It shouldn't be the job of the accused to prove someone consented, it should be up to the prosecution to prove a case, not the other way around. Innocent until proven guilty and thats been the underpining of the law for a lot longer than last year
We have a situation where the sexist law has turned logic and legality upside down.

We now have a basis of assumed guilty until proven guilty ............if the accused is male.
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BnThereDnThat
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#214
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#214
(Original post by caiitliin)
I had doubts about the existence of complete and utter stupidity in this world. They are gone.

In fact, being very drunk + potentially spiked actually means that all bad things that could possibly happen should happen to you! Robbery, rape, getting your hair shaved off, assault, ha! You should have known that the moment you consume a legal amount of a legal drug, legally, you are now open to perfectly illegal offenses, and you have no right to pursue any legal action about it - or even complain and seek help! It's just how it works.
Don't think that's a wise thing to say- yes it wasn't the smartest thing to do but we ALL do stupid things every now and then. I personally don't drink anymore but did something over 15 months ago that I regret. It was a stupid thing to do, but we do these things due to many possible reasons.
OP nobody is infallible, and what happened to you, much like what happened to me, is not our fault. In my case, I did a surgery and trusted my doctor but it didn't go as intended. I keep blaming myself but that's irrational: I trusted the doctor and did my research. In your case, it is clear you were drunk and did not provide consent. If you're too drunk to shower yourself and change your clothes then you couldn't have possibly provided consent. That's rape, and it's not your fault.
I may be older than most ppl here, but in life you will be challenged and sometimes problems come to you, even if you don't do something stupid. It's really like a minefield and you try to dodge the mines but every now and then you can't. That's a depressing truth I have learnt from years of experience and struggle. Just remember that before being judgemental.
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eskimo_rising
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#215
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#215
(Original post by ngb9320)
I
If you want to press charges and you want any chance of being successful you need to report it to the police as soon as possible and go to the doctors and get yourself checked out- that is very important.

STAY STRONG OP YOU WILL GET THROUGH THIS.
OP are you able to do this now? you need to stop thinking about IF this was a crime and let the Police do their job, they are the experts.

Also please get help from the other experts that are out there that people have mentioned. i.e. help lines etc. x
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Anonymous #7
#216
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#216
Let me start by saying that I am deeply sorry to hear that you went through this. Although my criminal law is a bit rusty but I do believe having sex with someone who is unable to consent as a result of a diminished mental capacity constitutes rape .
I think it is best to contact the police as well as speak to someone.
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ngb9320
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#217
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#217
(Original post by Anonymous)
I never ever thought id post a thread like this.
Last night, i got very drunk and was split up from my friends in a club. My memory went after that. The next thing I know I'm waking up with a guy who tells me we had sex, tells me i was sick in a taxi, sick on myself, he showered me and then put me to bed.. and then we had sex..
I can't wrap my head around this.. is this rape? I obviously wasn't in a fit state, I never would choose to have a one night stand,
I really don't know what to do.
I don't even know him at all.
I can't stop crying, I feel really odd, like I've never felt how I do right now.

Mod edit: Please note that this is not a debate thread, give helpful advice to the OP only. Unhelpful/unsupportive advice will be removed and you may receive a card
Also op you should get the police to check his laptop/computer, camera and phone.
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jenkinsear
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#218
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#218
(Original post by Anonymous)
Let me start by saying that I am deeply sorry to hear that you went through this. Although my criminal law is a bit rusty but I do believe having sex with someone who is unable to consent as a result of a diminished mental capacity constitutes rape .
I think it is best to contact the police as well as speak to someone.
For the diminished mental capacity rule to apply she'd need to have some form of mental illness or an incredibly low IQ to be unable to consent. I think you're confusing the different branches of capacity to consent.
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keladry
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#219
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#219
(Original post by LutherVan)
Because she does not know, some people think it makes sense for us to assume she was raped and then jail the person.

And to them, that makes sense.



We have a situation where the sexist law has turned logic and legality upside down.

We now have a basis of assumed guilty until proven guilty ............if the accused is male.
I don't mean to be rude. But I don't think this is an entirely appropriate place for you to be debating the law and how rape cases are handled when the OP is clearly very distressed and upset and looking for advice, not for a rant to happen on her thread about how unfair rape cases are treated.
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jenkinsear
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#220
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#220
(Original post by ngb9320)
Also op you should get the police to check his laptop/computer, camera and phone.
That's a ridiculous comment. The police can't just start seizing things because someone turns up and tells them to. They need to establish a reasonable case first and then get the permission of a judge (exceptions applying for certain things).
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