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    (Original post by rock_climber86)
    Well i'm flattered but I'd rather you treated animals as equals. That's the difference between me and you. You see animals are inferior. I see them as equals and indeed superior to us in many ways. They don't raise other animals for food and use their products. They don't destroy the planet. They live in harmony with nature unlike us.
    They do not have the capability of destroying the planet like we do. It is almost impossible to treat animals as equal to another human being, and very idiotic to do so.

    Wild Animals do not and will not demonstrate that level of mutual respect towards you. Especially if you are potential prey.
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    Why did he kill that elephant?
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Except, the OED is largely irrelevant here, they are both International Union for Conservation of Nature classifications, and not synonymous. They might be next to each other in the classifications, at the bottom end of the threatened range, but that is not the same as being synonymous. Endangered means that the IUCN believes they are like to become extinct, Vulnerable means they are likely to become endangered, unless what is creating the risk is dealt with. Seems odd to me to say that A is likely to become B means A=B.

    "Get back to school sonny!"
    You are confused, and still lacking a credible argument; When earlier in the thread I referred to elephants as endangered I did not specify African elephants which are vulnerable hence associated with endangered. The endangered elephants would be of course, as you didn’t know, the Sumatran, Asian, Borneo Pygmy, and Sri Lankan elephants. You obviously don’t know what synonymous means. One of its meanings is “close association with…” which in this context applies unless you speak a different English we don’t know about.

    Back to school sonny!
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    I don't get why people cry over these things. It's just an elephant. It would die anyway. So what if he shoots it?
    There's all these kids starving over the world and dieing in wars etc. But no one cares, as soon as it comes to a lion or an elephant everyone ****s themselves.
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    What if the next holocaust is committed by conservationist extremists :eek:
    Have you ever watched utopia on channel 4? If not you totally should it's on 4od - anyway it has similar themes.
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    (Original post by rock_climber86)
    Thank you! Now let's move onto ethics. What gives us the right to kill non-human animals without their permission? They don't farm and kill us on an industrial scale without our permission. Why are we doing this to them? They don't rape our women with random men's semen and kill their babies so they can drink our milk. Why do we do this to them? They don't kill us because we are destroying the planet. Why are we killing them on this pretence?

    This should be interesting...
    But, in the case I'm talking about, they do wipe out all other species and threaten entire ecosystems. That's pretty bad.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Such a useful inheritance to leave.

    I think probably a lot of rich people would like to be more like that and some good-natured and friendly nudging would produce more. It isn't all a picture of greedy *******s wrecking the planet to build bigger and bigger yachts, although that's also part of the picture.
    If only. Most rich people hate any sort of environmental cause as it is seen as an enemy of the free market.
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    (Original post by JD1lla)
    Ahh, typical vegetarian/vegan bs. Associated human emotions with animals. Would you like me to send you videos of elephants intentionally raiding HUMAN settlements (the humans were not in their territory) and destroying houses and killing children?

    What about a video of a sloth bear that wanders into a village and mauls a villager to death? I've seen it.

    What about the fact that animals eat eachother? If animals were so 'compassionate', surely every animal would be vegetarian?
    We're not all nutters I promise. I have a very reasonable and scientific approach to vegetarianism based on sustainability and conservation
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    (Original post by redferry)
    We're not all nutters I promise. I have a very reasonable and scientific approach to vegetarianism based on sustainability and conservation
    If I was completely honest with myself, I would love to be a vegetarian. Full admiration to those who are vegetarian/vegans.

    I eat meat because it tastes amazing and I'm not a decent enough human being to stop eating it.

    I just don't buy into propaganda like 'Cowspiracy'. It's BS.
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    (Original post by redferry)
    We're not all nutters I promise. I have a very reasonable and scientific approach to vegetarianism based on sustainability and conservation
    That doesn't justify everything and anything however. Also scientific to what ends? You can be scientific over what is the best way to cause as much animal suffering as possible ¬.¬

    Nothing wrong with throwing some animal welfare in there.
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    (Original post by JD1lla)
    If I was completely honest with myself, I would love to be a vegetarian. Full admiration to those who are vegetarian/vegans.

    I eat meat because it tastes amazing and I'm not a decent enough human being to stop eating it.

    I just don't buy into propaganda like 'Cowspiracy'. It's BS.
    I might actually try and go vegan if it weren't for people like that, I have been before, but I just don't want to be associated with those people, and giving money to an industry full of those kinds of people (Vegan food industry).
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    (Original post by redferry)
    Have you ever watched utopia on channel 4? If not you totally should it's on 4od - anyway it has similar themes.
    Will have a look :beard:
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    (Original post by redferry)
    I might actually try and go vegan if it weren't for people like that, I have been before, but I just don't want to be associated with those people, and giving money to an industry full of those kinds of people (Vegan food industry).
    Just curiously, have you ever researched the effects of vegetation farms on climate etc?
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    (Original post by redferry)
    But, in the case I'm talking about, they do wipe out all other species and threaten entire ecosystems. That's pretty bad.
    How many species has mankind wiped out? :moon: Give the deers some slack - we've done much worse than them and have no right to cull them.
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    That doesn't justify everything and anything however. Also scientific to what ends? You can be scientific over what is the best way to cause as much animal suffering as possible ¬.¬

    Nothing wrong with throwing some animal welfare in there.
    I'm fairly immune to animal suffering unfortunateley as its something I've had to come to terms with very swiftly through my work, I'd be driven mad if I took that on board as a cause too

    Also as soon as things become emotive the evidence bbecomes heavily distorted on both sides and any sort of argument becomes fairly redundant beyond your own personal morals, which are pretty worthless in the grand scheme of things.

    It's more sensible to advocate for the facts.
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    (Original post by rock_climber86)
    How many species has mankind wiped out? :moon: Give the deers some slack - we've done much worse than them and have no right to cull them.
    It would still be mankind wiping out those species as we wiped out the predators that control deer populations, and we introduced a lot of the deer. Hence it is our responsibility to put it right. If we don't the deer will die anyway, just slowly and more painfully, taking a large number of other animals and plants with them.
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    (Original post by redferry)
    It would still be mankind wiping out those species as we wiped out the predators that control deer populations, and we introduced a lot of the deer. Hence it is our responsibility to put it right. If we don't the deer will die anyway, just slowly and more painfully, taking a large number of other animals and plants with them.
    Wouldn't you agree it'd be more productive to try and reintroduce the deers' natural predators rather than culling them?
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    (Original post by rock_climber86)
    Wouldn't you agree it'd be more productive to try and reintroduce the deers' natural predators rather than culling them?
    How is that any different to us killing them lol? That's just like hiring a hitman to do your dirty work
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    Good for him. That's something to respect in a man.
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    (Original post by JD1lla)
    How is that any different to us killing them lol? That's just like hiring a hitman to do your dirty work
    not really - we'd just b righting our wrongs and letting nature take its course. We shouldn't have killed off the species in the first place. How is righting one killing event (of predators) with another (deers) humane?
 
 
 
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