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Do you agree with the death penalty? watch

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  • View Poll Results: Do you agree with the death Penalty?
    #YES
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    NEVER!
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    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    If anyone (God forbid) murdered my family members, I'd like to see them sentenced to the death penalty, I would see no other sentence appropriate enough for such a crime
    If you feel they would deserve death, do so yourself and dont hide behind the state.

    It is not for the state to impose what punishments it feels they deserve, but to protect all of its citizens.
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    (Original post by saxsan4)
    yes or no? and why

    i think for the most serious rapists, murders and paedophiles and special crimes which are truly revolting, we should bring it back
    but ONLY on the most serious cases such as the woman who flushed her new born baby down the toilet. The killer of Le-Rigby as examples
    Completely agree! Well said

    And only brought back if we have 100% dna or other strong links. If this was even 98% then life sentence.
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    (Original post by TheArtofProtest)
    Everyone involved within the judicial process is involved emotionally. The only difference between a judge, a jury or the family is the degree to which they are.

    Let's be clear about this, the family will not be passing judgement, they will not be deciding anything apart from allowing the judge and the jury to consider if the death penalty should be an option, before the case goes to trial.
    Whether a jury or judge is emotionally involved in fact is irrelevant, in law they aren't. If a judge does not feel he or she could take a neutral and objective view they are to recuse themselves and the evidence is considered by weighing up the probative value against the likely prejudice it will induce in an effort to keep juries looking at evidence objectively. It would be impossible to argue that the family of a victim could possibly be objective. Having a party involved in the decision making process which is not objective is a clear violation of the right to a fair trial.

    Your suggestion also throws up logistical problems. Who would be making the decision on whether or not the judge should be able to pass down the death penalty? Next of kin or would you suggest that all family members get a vote and the majority wins?


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    (Original post by victorialep)
    Completely agree! Well said

    And only brought back if we have 100% dna or other strong links. If this was even 98% then life sentence.
    The burden of proof in criminal law is beyond reasonable doubt which, if translated into a percentage would be less than 98%. You can never be 100% certain of someone's guilt so you'd never be using the death penalty


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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    The burden of proof in criminal law is beyond reasonable doubt which, if translated into a percentage would be less than 98%. You can never be 100% certain of someone's guilt so you'd never be using the death penalty


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    Of course you could - if the incident was caught on CCTV, if the rapist made the lady pregnant you could DNA test, there are plenty of ways to know for sure
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    (Original post by saxsan4)
    but why should the tax payer pay for them to have very easy lives?
    You talk as though life in prison is pleasant....
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    (Original post by victorialep)
    Of course you could - if the incident was caught on CCTV, if the rapist made the lady pregnant you could DNA test, there are plenty of ways to know for sure
    No evidence can lead to 100% certainty. CCTV footage could be doctored or it could show someone very similar looking committing a crime; DNA tests are not 100% accurate; etc.
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    (Original post by studentro)
    No evidence can lead to 100% certainty. CCTV footage could be doctored or it could show someone very similar looking committing a crime; DNA tests are not 100% accurate; etc.
    I think you'd feel different if your child was raped, or your mother murdered. People who do these inhumane act are not punished. students can tell a head to f off and little consequences - this world is becoming so relaxed on negative behaviour
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    (Original post by victorialep)
    I think you'd feel different if your child was raped, or your mother murdered. People who do these inhumane act are not punished. students can tell a head to f off and little consequences - this world is becoming so relaxed on negative behaviour
    Firstly, I don't see how either of those events would lead me to believe evidence is more accurate than it actually is. Not sure what that's got to do with it.
    Secondly, what possible good would it do me if the offender was killed? It would not bring back my mother or remove the trauma my child went through and I'm not really the sort of person who would get enjoyment/satisfaction knowing that a person, no matter how evil, was killed.
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    (Original post by ByEeek)
    Feel free to disagree with the facts. It is true that much crime is committed by folks without mental illness. However I find it rather alarming that 10% of men and 30% of women have had a previous psychiatric admission before they entered prison. That is staggering when you compare it against the number of people who have been admitted for psychiatric treatment in the population as a whole.

    http://www.prisonreformtrust.org.uk/...h/mentalhealth
    Show me the fact that says ALL criminals are mentally ill? That's not a fact at all. Even the evidence you've provided doesn't support that claim. I have acknowledged that there are quite a few criminals with a mental illness but that does not account for all crime, therefore, I can disagree.
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    (Original post by studentro)
    Firstly, I don't see how either of those events would lead me to believe evidence is more accurate than it actually is. Not sure what that's got to do with it.
    Secondly, what possible good would it do me if the offender was killed? It would bring back my mother or remove the trauma my child went through and I'm not really the sort of person who would get enjoyment/satisfaction knowing that a person, no matter how evil, was killed.
    I suppose, having our own opinions make the world a more interesting place eh
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    (Original post by victorialep)
    I suppose, having our own opinions make the world a more interesting place eh
    Sure, but I can't say I'm too thrilled that so many people not only would take pleasure from the killing of a human being, but don't feel any unease or guilt over it - rather, they feel it is a just thing to do. Could you please try to explain just what it is about human death that satisfies you so much?
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    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    You're giving these terrible people excuses for their crimes. They may not be evil as an individual, but the crime they commit certainly is and therefore, they have an element of it within them.
    people are going to commit violent acts because violence is a symptom of our society. inequality is the cause, and the root of that inequality is within each individual. when we separate ourselves from another in the illusion of superiority self-interest is born and from there we protect and defend our egos with no regard or consideration for our inherent equality. we forget that each human suffers, we blind ourselves to the truth that WE ARE NOT PERFECT. if judgement exists within us, we are creating that judgement from within ourselves and projecting it onto another. we're reacting to our own inner experiences, our own emotions that we've built up and misplacing them onto someone who we don't know. we can't know anyone else because we're all isolated in our own minds. we can observe someone's actions and make a common sense evaluation of whether or not those actions are helpful or inappropriate but we can't judge the perpetrator of those actions because we don't know their inner circumstances; we only know ours. we are responsible for our own inner experiences and to blame someone else for what we experience is violence in itself.

    i noticed that you capitalised the word god. i don't know if you're a christian but jesus speaks first and foremost of forgiveness and loving others as ourselves. christianity has been severely misconstrued by religious institutions. the purpose of religion is to find a common ground of humanity and decency and kindness and love and forgiveness. we've manipulated it into something that's judgemental and harmful. if god exists then it's benevolent; if it's not benevolent then it doesn't exist. a benevolent god would not condemn anyone because benevolence means absolute forgiveness, absolute love. humans made god - our conception of god - in our own image, not the other way around. if 'god' sent anyone to hell then he wouldn't be good, he'd be evil. but luckily god isn't evil, god is good because god is Life/nature/this physical Earth and therefore hell doesn't exist apart from in the minds of humans. hell is emotion, it's ego, it's violence of thought, word and deed. we can stop this the moment we forgive all as ourselves and embrace all of existence in actual, practical love which means sorting this planet out, but it's a process to get there.

    sorting Earth out means implementing practical world solutions. it means being innovative and creative and pragmatic and living in the real world. we need to move from fossil fuels to renewable energy, we need to stop destroying the rainforests and polluting the seas and skies, we need to stop massacring the animal kingdom, we need to ensure that all have a living income to thrive on, we need to all do our bit every single day to clean up our immediate environment and transform the world around us into a beautiful place. the ultimate goal for humanity is to evolve beyond suffering and create heaven on Earth.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    I completely disagree with your points that all criminals are mentally ill. You make it seem as though they didn't know what they were doing, when most of the time, that's not the case. They know exactly what they're doing, which is why some call the police immediately and hand themselves in or they try to cover up the crime and wait for the evidence to catch up to them. I understand people kill for different reasons and that's why I've said that some people have 'special' circumstances whereby they were not of sound mind or if the victim had done something terrible to them or their loved ones, but that is not true for everyone & especially not for serial offenders
    "And Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.”

    when we're emotional, we don't have inner clarity or self-awareness. the more emotional we become, the more we lose our awareness and become possessed by our minds. when i lose my awareness, my mind runs on autopilot and i get annoyed and irritated with the smallest things. anything outside of us can trigger these emotional experiences - we do not make the decision to experience them in self-awareness. we can, however, choose to not react, once we develop sufficient self-awareness. but when we're possessed by our thoughts and emotions, it's difficult to pull ourselves out of it - our awareness gets stifled. our behaviour is influenced by the degree of our self-awareness.

    no one is consciously insane. no one chooses to do bad things. under all circumstances, we do harmful things because we're possessed by our thoughts and emotions, and we think we're doing the right thing. someone with absolute self-awareness makes no mistakes. therefore under all circumstances, murderers are severely mentally ill and require treatment and support. just as those who are violent in thought, word and other deeds are mentally ill. all mind participation is mental illness/imbalance and should be forgiven.

    i'll clarify what i mean by mind. mind is consciousness - thoughts, emotions, feelings - all inner experiences that we don't CHOOSE to experience in self-awareness. consciousness is reactive while our beingness is directive. mind is automatic and happens without our control, while our beingness in self-awareness observes our thoughts, emotions and feelings, pulling us out of our emotions and feelings when we're grounded enough. our beingness/awareness and mind/consciousness are completely entangled but the goal is to go from consciousness to awareness. consciousness/mind is not who we really are; who we really are is absolute clarity, absolute awareness, absolute love and peace. we've lost ourselves inside ourselves and that's why there's conflict.

    conflict is created through mind participation which then manifests in our behaviour, creating physical world consequences. the degree of insanity in the world right now is quite clear. the reason this conflict exists is because we don't want to face ourselves. in our own minds, we're perfectly good, perfectly justified. our egos put ourselves on pedestals and make us believe that we're godlike and wonderful and completely correct in everything we do while everyone else is wrong. the awareness within us sees; it sees what we've become and moves us into sanity. in sanity, it becomes clear that we've ****ed up, big time, and that we are not godly or holy or wonderful. our beingness knows that we have to correct ourselves as this world and move ourselves into absolute self-forgiveness. no one is perfect until everyone is perfect, no one is free until everyone is free. once mind/consciousness/ego no longer exists and all humans know themselves completely, heaven will be created on Earth forever.

    the key is SELF-forgiveness. we have to stop projecting ourselves onto others. we have to start taking self-responsibility. we are all here to help one another and make the world a better place. no more conflict, we MUST stand as all as one as equal and transform Earth into heaven. if we don't things will get worse until our suffering pushes us into awareness. the more someone suffers, the more wisdom they gain, the greater their capacity to heal and become real. someone on death row has a whole lot of potential to change. in fact, many, many do. before they're murdered they're forced into self-awareness from their acute degree of suffering and they find peace. then their lives are stolen by ego.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    Take your example of your mental issues. You said you had an outburst and became very angry at one point in your life. I get that, but that emotional pain you were feeling doesn't last forever (particularly if you do seek help) and so it cannot account for a serial offender. Most serial offenders commit the same crime over a period of years, they spread it out. The people who are seriously mentally ill like you mentioned tend to hurt themselves or threaten to hurt themselves/ people they know as opposed to innocent people on the street. You're right about the last point. We're not perfect, and I'll never make myself out to be perfect, but there's a big difference between me making a small boo boo compared to me going out and deciding I don't like Wednesday's so I'm gonna murder and rape a number of people
    those who are severely possessed by their mind/consciousness are in a constant state of fear or desire. in my situation, i'd built up yeaaarrrsss of intense emotions and when i took drugs they all came out in a huge explosion of my ego. in the moments where i threatened others, i was so certain that i was right, justified, absolutely correct in my condemnation of others. i wasn't. i was possessed by my mind and when i came down from my rage i realised what i'd done. people in prison aren't having a good time. they're suffering. they don't want to be there. they want help, they want forgiveness and they want others to stop projecting themselves onto them.

    so, as i said earlier it comes down to self-forgiveness. who am i? who have i become? who will i become if i forgive myself and reach my full potential? how can i create a world that's best for all Life? how can i be of assistance to all of the Earth as my equal?
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    (Original post by Farm_Ecology)
    If you feel they would deserve death, do so yourself and dont hide behind the state.

    It is not for the state to impose what punishments it feels they deserve, but to protect all of its citizens.
    Why would I do that? So that I can be sentenced to 25+ years? There's some matters you can't just take into your own hands because of he consequences, and this is one.

    Abolishing/ incapacitating serial killers forever is 100% effective in protecting its citizens. There's no guarantee that they'll be a different person once they've served their time.
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    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    Why would I do that? So that I can be sentenced to 25+ years? There's some matters you can't just take into your own hands because of he consequences, and this is one.

    Abolishing/ incapacitating serial killers forever is 100% effective in protecting its citizens. There's no guarantee that they'll be a different person once they've served their time.
    So why do expect the state to murder on your behalf?

    Killing seriel killers are still citizens. And while killing them might stop them fron killing again, there are better ways to stop future crimes by others.
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    No. I'd rather let the evil ones suffer in prison
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    (Original post by Farm_Ecology)
    So why do expect the state to murder on your behalf?

    Killing seriel killers are still citizens. And while killing them might stop them fron killing again, there are better ways to stop future crimes by others.
    It's not just on my behalf, like you said it's to protect citizens most importantly.

    No doubt there are other ways but I'm not sure there are 'better ways'
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    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    Why would I do that? So that I can be sentenced to 25+ years? There's some matters you can't just take into your own hands because of he consequences, and this is one.

    Abolishing/ incapacitating serial killers forever is 100% effective in protecting its citizens. There's no guarantee that they'll be a different person once they've served their time.
    if we aren't prepared to do something ourselves then we shouldn't want others to do it either. are you saying that if there were no consequences for killing a serial killer you'd kill them?

    the reason most don't change after they've done their time is because they were in prison and had no substantial support. transform prisons into hospitals with drs who genuinely care and we'd see a significant change in criminal behaviour after the patients are out.
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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    I'm so disappointed I wasted a few seconds of my life reading that nonsense


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    why's it nonsense? deconstruct pls
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    (Original post by fairytalecolours)
    if we aren't prepared to do something ourselves then we shouldn't want others to do it either. are you saying that if there were no consequences for killing a serial killer you'd kill them?

    the reason most don't change after they've done their time is because they were in prison and had no substantial support. transform prisons into hospitals with drs who genuinely care and we'd see a significant change in criminal behaviour after the patients are out.

    Okay, so if you saw someone viciously attack an innocent passer by or even someone you know, would you handcuff that person and set up a jail within your home and lock them up there? I mean we can all agree that we want that individual to be punished, but it is not within our rights to do that, the law prevents us and we risk being sent to jail ourselves if we were to take matters into our own hands like that. We are not a figure of authority, but that's not to say that they shouldn't be punished. If we were to witness such a crime, were told not to approach that person, and to call emergency services so that they can deal with it themselves.

    & about what you said, perhaps that would work for one time offenders, or for people who commit minor offences. We all make mistakes and if we do something seriously wrong (not necessarily illegal) we probably won't do it again. We may do it accidentally/subconsciously but that is not the same for something like murder. You can't accidentally kill a number of people.

    If a completely sane person were to murder my loved ones and I had the opportunity to kill them, I'd be seriously tempted. Ive no idea if I would actually do it, but I don't see a reason why they should get to continue to live if they've unlawfully terminated the lives of others
 
 
 
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