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'High quality' unis to increase tuition fees watch

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    Nobody has yet answered my questions at #127.
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    (Original post by hellodave5)
    I dunno. I think its a positive thing that so many people are highly educated.
    Though I definitely think apprenticeships need to be worked on as a viable and equal alternative.
    I pointed out earlier that in Switzerland only 20% of the youth go to uni. They don't look unhappy.
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    (Original post by hellodave5)
    What?
    (Original post by hoping4Astars)
    ??
    Do you really consider those with CCC who go to Leeds Beckett in Media Studies 'highly educated'?
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    (Original post by serebro)
    I simply appreciate that money doesn't grow on trees and respect the fact that people are taking their time to teach me, rather than expected to be entitled to everything.
    Money doesn't grow on tree? Where has that come from?!

    University is the worst place to learn. Lecturers don't take their time out to teach anything (you must really be naive to believe this) hence why I question whether you've been to uni, majority are terrible lecturers in the first place and wikipedia does a more further job. They all pretty much say go to the library and get my book, all you need to know is there. Will Hunting was right.
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    (Original post by Puddles the Monkey)
    Is this a return to a two tier system where the best education is a reserve for the wealthiest?
    No. That's not how 'here's a loan that you only have to pay back once you're earning a decent wage' works.
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    (Original post by Josb)
    Universities are indeed free in France, but I would still prefer to have £40K of debt and study in the UK (even more for Oxbridge). You don't realise how good British unis (at least the Russell group) are compared to European ones.

    I think it's perfectly normal to pay a lot to study at such excellent universities. You also have to pay much less tax than in Europe (in France, 70% of the salary cost is taxed). The problem I see with the British system is when students with CCC can still go to crappy unis and study 'media studies'. What's the point of that?

    I would also like to say that Switzerland has world-class and free universities because they only give the matura (equivalent of the A-levels) to 20% of an age group (the brightest ones), so students cost far less to the Government than in Britain, where 60% go to uni. The other 80% benefit from an excellent network of professional schools that give them technical skills, therefore making them immediately employable.

    The UK used to have a comparable system with the polytechnics, but John Major "transformed" them into universities, a move that I haver never understood.
    Someone else has already adhered to bias and limitations of the ranking systems. So I won't bother dabber into it more. I can't believe that people still don't take any ranking system with a pitch of salt.

    You seem to favour a 2 tier education system, that's another debate and one that I'll probably agree with in theory but won't in reality because nepotism, rich kids and people who had families push them at younger ages will benefit and many other will loss out. That will just worsen social mobility and result in a society that generally worse off.

    FYI, I wouldn't be snobbish of kids with CCC. CCC was probably what many of the current consultants achieved.
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    (Original post by 4:20)
    Money doesn't grow on tree? Where has that come from?!

    University is the worst place to learn. Lecturers don't take their time out to teach anything (you must really be naive to believe this) hence why I question whether you've been to uni, majority are terrible lecturers in the first place and wikipedia does a more further job. They all pretty much say go to the library and get my book, all you need to know is there. Will Hunting was right.
    So movies are a good source of knowledge and wisdom?
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    (Original post by Bupdeeboowah)
    So movies are a good source of knowledge and wisdom?
    Yes a million times. Let me tell you a well known secret, some movies are recommend to improve understanding of certain topics e.g. A beautiful mind. Good Will Hunting is also one of them. Why do you think the idea of documentaries came into existence?

    Another secret for you, rap music will teach you more about poetry than any english degree will.

    So much snobbery.
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    (Original post by 4:20)
    Someone else has already adhered to bias and limitations of the ranking systems. So I won't bother dabber into it more. I can't believe that people still don't take any ranking system with a pitch of salt.
    I didn't mention any ranking.
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    (Original post by serebro)
    FE education is different to HE. FE typically happens between 16-19, during which a person reaches the age of majority. It's unreasonable to expect 16 year olds to stand by themselves, especially since the law limits what they can do for their age. FE education (A levels, apprenticeship, NVQ) helps bridge the gap, giving them some skills ready for when they become a legal adult. What they want to do then is up to them. They can go out and work. If they want to enter HE, the current loan system is very reasonable. It's not as if you have to pay upfront for university.
    What gives you the impression that I don't know what FE is? It's pretty much what I was referring to. Lol, majority of 18 years old are immature. Plus you have to pretty much decide your future at 16- when you become a legal adult.
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    (Original post by 4:20)
    Yes a million times. Let me tell you a well known secret, some movies are recommend to improve understanding of certain topics e.g. A beautiful mind. Good Will Hunting is also one of them. Why do you think the idea of documentaries came into existence?

    Another secret for you, rap music will teach you more about poetry than any english degree will.

    So much snobbery.
    What have you been puffing? I need something like that because I've just realised that my life has been a lie.
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    (Original post by Josb)
    I didn't mention any ranking.
    How did you decide that british universities are superior to their european counterparts?
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    (Original post by 4:20)
    How did you decide that british universities are superior to their european counterparts?
    Because I've studied/worked in six universities in France and the UK. It's two different worlds.
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    (Original post by Bupdeeboowah)
    What have you been puffing? I need something like that because I've just realised that my life has been a lie.
    A lot of pac and biggie smalls lately. Go and listen if i die tonight (and tell me that wasn't beautiful poetry) and i've got a story to tell (a beautifully told story).

    All the best rappers are usually dead :'(
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    (Original post by Josb)
    Because I've studied/worked in six universities in France and the UK. It's two different worlds.
    Fair but anecdotes are poor evidence.
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    (Original post by 4:20)
    University is the worst place to learn. Lecturers don't take their time out to teach anything (you must really be naive to believe this) hence why I question whether you've been to uni, majority are terrible lecturers in the first place and wikipedia does a more further job. They all pretty much say go to the library and get my book, all you need to know is there. Will Hunting was right.
    There is much truth to this. IMO university is quite poor value for money even with a course like electronic engineering which is a STEM subject and one that makes use of laboratory facilities and practical assignments rather than just books and computers. Many lecturers consider lectures as a complete waste of their time and life that they would rather spend doing research.

    It's debatable whether university really is about education in the sense of a taught course or whether it is an exercise in finding out things for yourself. The good lecturers are those who say go to the library and get my book. The bad lecturers are those who provide no information as to which books contain the information you need for their course but expect you to find the required titles yourself.
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    (Original post by VV Cephei A)
    Yes, the taxpayer would have to begin universally funding postgraduate degrees once universally funded Bachelors cease to be sufficient. Postgraduate degrees are currently not universally funded.
    Ummm

    I hate to break it to you but. ... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-30293964
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    (Original post by Josb)
    I pointed out earlier that in Switzerland only 20% of the youth go to uni. They don't look unhappy.
    Interesting!!
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    (Original post by 4:20)
    What gives you the impression that I don't know what FE is? It's pretty much what I was referring to. Lol, majority of 18 years old are immature. Plus you have to pretty much decide your future at 16- when you become a legal adult.
    I got that impression because you asked me a question about it. You become a fully legal adult at 18, not at 16 (that's the age of consent). Two years gives you ample time to have a very rough idea about what you would like to try out. There is this misconception amongst young people that they have to decide what they want to do for the rest of their entire life. But in reality, most workers have had a variety of jobs and careers, very few of them being stuck in a profession for life.
    (Original post by 4:20)
    Money doesn't grow on tree? Where has that come from?!University is the worst place to learn. Lecturers don't take their time out to teach anything (you must really be naive to believe this) (have you tried actually asking them for help? hence why I question whether you've been to uni, majority are terrible lecturers in the first place and wikipedia does a more further job. They all pretty much say go to the library and get my book, all you need to know is there. Will Hunting was right.
    It depends on the university and the course you do, hence you have the responsibility to choose wisely. If you don't/didn't like your university, choose a different or simply try something else. It is your responsibility to learn with the tools the university has given you. I think you also forget the fact that the lecturers offer office hours and the university itself is the institution that runs the library(ies) for students. The whole point of a degree is to develop your own independent knowledge and research skills. The same occurs in the workplace, the boss won't hire you and then do your work. If you expected to be spoonfed all the way through, then you should have stopped at GCSE level, let alone A Level.
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    (Original post by Josb)
    Do you really consider those with CCC who go to Leeds Beckett in Media Studies 'highly educated'?
    I dunno. 'Highly educated' is relative I suppose.
    An erudite bearded chap doesn't come to mind, I know what you mean. But degree courses tend to be reasonably rigorous regardless of what they're in. I don't know very much about media studies courses so I can't really judge.
    On the other hand, I do feel they have become too much of a commodity.
 
 
 
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