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David Cameron's father 'ran offshore fund that paid zero UK tax for 30 years' Watch

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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    A lot of what people on benefits do, like buy **** and booze is perfectly legal, doesn't stop an outrage....

    Why is exploiting the system okay at the top but not at the bottom. It's a double standard.

    People's issue here isn't the legality or lack of it, it's that they see the same types of people who profess to 'love britain' and are described as 'wealth creators' are effectively leaching money away offshore. We're then told that we have to make cuts due to a lack of money while allowing hundreds of millions to be floated offshore.

    And then you have Cameron himself who in 2012 called tax avoidance immoral... I wonder if he still thinks that now.
    http://capx.co/which-laws-on-tax-hav...merons-broken/

    See option d).

    And you expect a politician to have scruples?
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    And then you have Cameron himself who in 2012 called tax avoidance immoral... I wonder if he still thinks that now.
    Hahah what a hypocrite. Am I right?
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    (Original post by JordanL_)
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a6967671.html



    And people vote for these morons.
    I saw it on the news today where he being interviewed about this, and he looked shifty as hell...I think there's more to this and it will come out in the next few days.
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    So where are all the 'you can't blame him for his father's actions' crew now he's admitted he was involved himself?

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    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
    No, it isn't. If you're suggesting that we should take steps to curb people's ability to avoid tax by moving money offshore I'm broadly right there with you, but to condemn individuals for making use of the laws as they are is an entirely different matter. I don't blame anyone for using the legal means that are available to them to protect their money.
    Well, indeed. It's quite easy to be moral when that's your only asset.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    And you're proving mine. You're making a big deal out of legal activity and seem to be declaring that all blame lies on the Tories and Labour are infallible, they have done nothing wrong. The very logic used in OP is that Tories have avoided taxes, you should not vote Tory. This can be extended to Labour, who have also avoided taxes, so they should not be voted for either.
    You hadn't even made a proper point, my point was that people in this thread were shifting the blame to Labour to try and clear the Conservatives when nobody in the Labour party has been revealed to have taken part in this. You proved this point by saying 'Labour had 13 years to try to sort things out and did very little'.

    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Further, you're acting as if Labour are innocent, if Labour were innocent then more action would have been taken when they had the opportunity to, as it was they would also have lost out, so let is slide.
    I'm acting as if Labour is innocent in this case because, as of now, they are. You're blaming them for what they could've done, but we have no idea how much Labour knew about this when they were in power. In fact, Jeremy Corbyn has asked David Cameron to explain himself aswell as making his point of view clear on this issue; so I believe that if Labour had the chance, they would have exposed this to the media.
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    (Original post by Craig1998)
    You hadn't even made a proper point, my point was that people in this thread were shifting the blame to Labour to try and clear the Conservatives when nobody in the Labour party has been revealed to have taken part in this. You proved this point by saying 'Labour had 13 years to try to sort things out and did very little'.



    I'm acting as if Labour is innocent in this case because, as of now, they are. You're blaming them for what they could've done, but we have no idea how much Labour knew about this when they were in power. In fact, Jeremy Corbyn has asked David Cameron to explain himself aswell as making his point of view clear on this issue; so I believe that if Labour had the chance, they would have exposed this to the media.
    Labour are innocent and haven't been involved in tax avoidance? Needless to say they will probably end up having involvement, but let's look at things.
    Unite avoided large sums of tax that that make David's avoidance look like pennies, biggest donor
    The second biggest donor, can't remember which union it is, also avoided a lot of tax
    PwC, largest private donor, guess what?
    Ed and David Miliband, I don't recall Labour members and MP calling for Ed's resignation when that came out

    They are so innocent on tax avoidance that they kept loopholes open, accepted money from major tax avoiders and defended their own leader when their tax avoidance came out. There is more to tax avoidance than tax havens.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Labour are innocent and haven't been involved in tax avoidance? Needless to say they will probably end up having involvement, but let's look at things.
    Unite avoided large sums of tax that that make David's avoidance look like pennies, biggest donor
    The second biggest donor, can't remember which union it is, also avoided a lot of tax
    PwC, largest private donor, guess what?
    Ed and David Miliband, I don't recall Labour members and MP calling for Ed's resignation when that came out

    They are so innocent on tax avoidance that they kept loopholes open, accepted money from major tax avoiders and defended their own leader when their tax avoidance came out. There is more to tax avoidance than tax havens.
    Smh

    I am talking about if labour had involvements in the recent tax scandal - so yes they are innocent. Yes there could be some involvements but none have yet been revealed. We are not talking about past tax avoidance. The thing is, Ed Miliband is not the PM so it won't effect his reputation as much as it will effect the PM.

    The spotlight is on the Tories so far, more precise, the PM. Talk about him please.
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    (Original post by MrMackyTv)
    Smh

    I am talking about if labour had involvements in the recent tax scandal - so yes they are innocent. Yes there could be some involvements but none have yet been revealed. We are not talking about past tax avoidance. The thing is, Ed Miliband is not the PM so it won't effect his reputation as much as it will effect the PM.

    The spotlight is on the Tories so far, more precise, the PM. Talk about him please.
    Wait, you mean when Ed was implicated in tax avoidance it had no impact what so ever on him or his party?

    And this isn't about David Cameron, it's about Ian Donald Cameron, but actually it's not even about that, it's about how Tories have avoided taxes and therefore they should not be voted for, so actually other parties involved in tax avoidance are part of this. I somehow suspect the subtext to the OP was "The Tories avoid tax, you shouldn't vote for them, Labour instead", which means Labour are very much in the spotlight because their own tax avoidance means they shouldn't be voted for either. I expect we can pull the Lib Dems in to the group who have people avoiding tax or accepting cash on which tax has been avoided, I guess they're out, UKIP? Quite probably. SNP? Wouldn't be surprised, the only at least semi major party I would expect can be fairly safe are the Greens, and that's more down to the level of funding over anything else.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    A lot of what people on benefits do, like buy **** and booze is perfectly legal, doesn't stop an outrage....

    Why is exploiting the system okay at the top but not at the bottom. It's a double standard.

    People's issue here isn't the legality or lack of it, it's that they see the same types of people who profess to 'love britain' and are described as 'wealth creators' are effectively leaching money away offshore. We're then told that we have to make cuts due to a lack of money while allowing hundreds of millions to be floated offshore.

    And then you have Cameron himself who in 2012 called tax avoidance immoral... I wonder if he still thinks that now.
    Cameron didn't 'avoid' tax.
    They did not transfer money into a shadowy off-shore private family trust to hide assets from the Exchequer. That is not what happened.
    He bought into effectively a 'foreign' hedge fund. He still paid all applicable UK taxes from the personal income derived from it, in full. Every British worker with a pension will benefit from the same type of investment vehicle.
    So just to clarify, in layman's terms, Cameron bought into a foreign-based hedge fund and paid all relevant UK taxes from the personal income, in full. Cameron did not avoid any British tax at all or pay less than one would normally reasonably expect.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03qdlwc
    See tax specialist brilliantly detail why everyone is making a fuss over nothing.
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    (Original post by EccentricDiamond)
    Who gives a ****, labour destroyed this country beyond recognition with diversity and multiculturalism
    They come here, they take our jobs...

    (Original post by stefano865)
    Who cares.

    When you look this good in swimming trunks. :sexface:

    http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/...79_634x854.jpg
    I would.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Wait, you mean when Ed was implicated in tax avoidance it had no impact what so ever on him or his party?
    No. I said his reputation wasn't effected "as much as" the PM. Please read posts carefully before making judgements.

    And this isn't about David Cameron, it's about Ian Donald Cameron, but actually it's not even about that, it's about how Tories have avoided taxes and therefore they should not be voted for, so actually other parties involved in tax avoidance are part of this. I somehow suspect the subtext to the OP was "The Tories avoid tax, you shouldn't vote for them, Labour instead", which means Labour are very much in the spotlight because their own tax avoidance means they shouldn't be voted for either. I expect we can pull the Lib Dems in to the group who have people avoiding tax or accepting cash on which tax has been avoided, I guess they're out, UKIP? Quite probably. SNP? Wouldn't be surprised, the only at least semi major party I would expect can be fairly safe are the Greens, and that's more down to the level of funding over anything else.
    My mistake. Didn't notice the title difference because I just realised I am debating with you on two fronts...

    That's what the OP said. I reiterate, so far David Cameron is one person involved in the tax scandal from his party. They are the only party that is has someone involved with this, so far. Therefore as PM, his reputation is going and he is becoming less credible hence the reason people want him to resign.

    If you are going to bring Labour into the topic when we are talking about David Cameron and Ian Cameron, I will not reply to you out of pure impatience.
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    I mean lets be clear about what we are talking about in the issue of tax avoidance. Anyone who uses an ISA or who has a private pension is engaging in tax avoidance, it's fine, it's legal and it's very much within the spirit of the law in those cases. The real problem is not tax avoidance per say but unfair tax avoidance that is not within the spirit of the law
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    (Original post by limetang)
    I mean lets be clear about what we are talking about in the issue of tax avoidance. Anyone who uses an ISA or who has a private pension is engaging in tax avoidance, it's fine, it's legal and it's very much within the spirit of the law in those cases. The real problem is not tax avoidance per say but unfair tax avoidance that is not within the spirit of the law
    I don't think anyone has failed to make that distinction.
    ISA's are tax avoidance yes, but they are expressly provided for and intended by Parliament to help people save. There's nothing shady about them.

    Tax avoidance of the kind of Cameron's father though is different. That's finding and exploiting an unintended legal loophole to stick all your money offshore and pay no tax.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    I don't think anyone has failed to make that distinction.
    ISA's are tax avoidance yes, but they are expressly provided for and intended by Parliament to help people save. There's nothing shady about them.

    Tax avoidance of the kind of Cameron's father though is different. That's finding and exploiting an unintended legal loophole to stick all your money offshore and pay no tax.
    Which uk taxes did Cameron's father avoid exactly? You like to spout avoidance like many others, but when actually asked what exactly you're talking about you seize up or suggest correlation means causation.

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    I wonder how many people saw the BBC breakfast segment where a tax lawyer explained how much of a non-issue this all is


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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    I wonder how many people saw the BBC breakfast segment where a tax lawyer explained how much of a non-issue this all is


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    And all the other people they've been trying to make say he's done something wrong, they were at it again today

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    I'm no fan of David Cameron, but he hasn't been hypocritical and he hasn't done anything illegal. And the amount of money we're talking about is not exactly staggering

    Corbyn's attacks on the Prime Minister come across as desperation; Cameron made the disclosure, and there was no smoking gun.

    In fact, Corbyn's finances are far grubbier (i.e. the money he took from the Iranian government, the money he took from groups that call for Jews to be executed, the cash he accepted from privatisation merchants Capita).

    Corbyn doesn't exactly have a moral high ground to stand on here
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    (Original post by limetang)
    I mean lets be clear about what we are talking about in the issue of tax avoidance. Anyone who uses an ISA or who has a private pension is engaging in tax avoidance, it's fine, it's legal and it's very much within the spirit of the law in those cases. The real problem is not tax avoidance per say but unfair tax avoidance that is not within the spirit of the law
    There is a distinction to be made between people taking up an ISA and enjoying a tax break that parliament intended as against finding unintended loopholes and going to town on them

    There's also a difference between taking up a tax break parliament intended as against putting money in an offshore account in order to do things that would be illegal in your home jurisdiction
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    (Original post by BeastOfSyracuse)
    There is a distinction to be made between people taking up an ISA and enjoying a tax break that parliament intended as against finding unintended loopholes and going to town on them

    There's also a difference between taking up a tax break parliament intended as against putting money in an offshore account in order to do things that would be illegal in your home jurisdiction
    Oh absolutely, the question wrt David Camerons father is: which does this come under? I personally don't know and tbh it has been difficult for me as somebody who isn't an economist or a tax lawyer to know (and the media hasn't really helped clarify this matter and has instead resorted to its usual trick of trying to make a scandal out of this).

    (There's also the other obvious point that David Camerons fathers dodgy dealings are not the responsibility of his son)
 
 
 
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