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Should schools alter changing rooms, toilets + uniforms to accommodate trans pupils? Watch

  • View Poll Results: Should schools alter changing rooms, toilets + uniforms to accommodate trans pupils?
    Yes
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    36.15%
    No
    461
    63.85%

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    (Original post by Katty3)
    Diagnostic and Statistical manual 5 and International classification of diseases 10.

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    Is that like a standard thing and I've totally missed the memo...
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    (Original post by Implication)
    They don't think they are another sex though! That's kind of what I'm trying to tell you. There's a difference between gender and sex, and transgenderism is where your gender doesn't correspond to your biological sex. It isn't a mental disorder in itself, but the medical condition associated with it is called gender dysphoria. It's very distressing for trans individuals to deal with, and a bit of compassion could go a long way.

    Id rather not.
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    (Original post by danwbell)
    Trans is simply the outcome of failed parenting.
    You don't actually believe this, do you?
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    (Original post by LittleMissMay)
    Is that like a standard thing and I've totally missed the memo...
    They're two materials doctors may use when classifying mental disorders
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    (Original post by LittleMissMay)
    Is that like a standard thing and I've totally missed the memo...
    Yes it's what we use to diagnose and categorise mental disorders. Both have their own weaknesses the icd 10 is both mental and physical classifications and dsm v is mental health only


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    (Original post by HeimIX)
    Id rather not.
    Why?
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    (Original post by Implication)
    Why?
    Its not that I wouldn't have compassion to one I don't really care about them. They live among us and thats fine, if I knew any in real life its just that id rather not get mixed up with them. I don't fudge with that trans/homo stuff
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    (Original post by Chaz W)
    Compassion yes, mental disorders should be treated as mental disorders - pandering and surgery, no.
    (Original post by paul514)
    So much this.


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    What mental disorder are you talking about? :confused: As I said in my post, I'm pretty sure transgenderism is not considered a mental disorder. The distress associated with a mismatch between gender and assigned sex is, and is in indeed treated as such - typically with therapy and/or transitioning.
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    (Original post by HeimIX)
    Its not that I wouldn't have compassion to one I don't really care about them. They live among us and thats fine, if I knew any in real life its just that id rather not get mixed up with them. I don't fudge with that trans/homo stuff
    Can you explain why? How do you justify this sort of prejudice to yourself, let alone other people?
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    (Original post by Implication)
    What mental disorder are you talking about? :confused: As I said in my post, I'm pretty sure transgenderism is not considered a mental disorder. The distress associated with a mismatch between gender and assigned sex is, and is in indeed treated as such - typically with therapy and/or transitioning.
    Transitioning has no impact on the staggering suicide rates of people who assosiate with a different gender than their own - it is not an effective treatment. We need to stop pandering to these people because of 'muh feelings' and start actually helping these people instead of mutilating them. If we start to introduce such strong trans-friendly ideals into schools, children are taught that mental disorders like this are acceptable and you should embrace them. The bottom line is they shouldn't, children shouldn't be encouraged into accepting an almost 50% suicide rate because you might hurt someone's feelings.
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    (Original post by Chaz W)
    Transitioning has no impact on the staggering suicide rates of people who assosiate with a different gender than their own - it is not an effective treatment. We need to stop pandering to these people because of 'muh feelings' and start actually helping these people instead of mutilating them. If we start to introduce such strong trans-friendly ideals into schools, children are taught that mental disorders like this are acceptable and you should embrace them. The bottom line is they shouldn't, children shouldn't be encouraged into accepting an almost 50% suicide rate because you might hurt someone's feelings.
    Source?

    But transitioning isn't meant to be a treatment for suicidal thoughts etc. anyway; it's meant to treat gender dysphoria. Using a secondary indicator such as suicide rate just obfuscates the issue.
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    (Original post by Implication)
    Can you explain why? How do you justify this sort of prejudice to yourself, let alone other people?
    I don't justify it, as stated; I don't really care. This is just the way I think. I to put it to back of my mind.
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    (Original post by HeimIX)
    I don't justify it, as stated; I don't really care. This is just the way I think. I to put it to back of my mind.
    If you can't justify your beliefs I wholeheartedly recommend you discard them :holmes:
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    (Original post by Implication)
    Source?

    But transitioning isn't meant to be a treatment for suicidal thoughts etc. anyway; it's meant to treat gender dysphoria. Using a secondary indicator such as suicide rate just obfuscates the issue.
    http://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.ed...port-Final.pdf
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    (Original post by Implication)
    If you can't justify your beliefs I wholeheartedly recommend you discard them :holmes:
    Aye sir.
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    retty sure it P
    (Original post by Chaz W)
    Transitioning has no impact on the staggering suicide rates of people who assosiate with a different gender than their own - it is not an effective treatment. We need to stop pandering to these people because of 'muh feelings' and start actually helping these people instead of mutilating them. If we start to introduce such strong trans-friendly ideals into schools, children are taught that mental disorders like this are acceptable and you should embrace them. The bottom line is they shouldn't, children shouldn't be encouraged into accepting an almost 50% suicide rate because you might hurt someone's feelings.
    Pretty sure it is an effective treatment? I'll find you some sources when I'm not on mobile if you want. When treatment is denied/has a long wait suicide/self harm rates are obviously going to go up. Telling.me that I'm fine as I am and to 'embrace' my feelings would probably have the opposite effect. Education like that wont stop the bad impulses that come as a result of dysphoria
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    Please could you point me to where they show that transitioning has no impact on suicide rates? On page 8, they explain precisely why they couldn't draw any conclusions of that sort:

    The survey did not provide information about the timing of reported suicide attempts in relation to receiving transition-related health care, which precluded investigation of transition-related explanations for these patterns.
    And again on page 15, they explicitly deny what you claim they have shown:

    ... the NTDS instrument did not include questions about the timing of suicide attempts relative to transition, and thus we were unable to determine whether suicidal behavior is significantly reduced following transition-related surgeries...
    The fact they specified they couldn't determine a reduction would further discredit your conclusion, since your assumption is clearly contrary to what they expect.

    Now, in the discussion on page 14, they actually give you an explanation for the higher rate of suicide among those who have undergone transitional surgery!

    Significantly higher prevalence of lifetime suicide attempts was found among respondents who were classified as trans women (MTF) and trans men (FTM), based on their primary self-identifications. Since trans women and trans men are the groups within the overall transgender population most likely to need surgical care for transition, this may help to explain the high prevalence of lifetime suicide attempts we found among respondents who said they have had transition-related surgical procedures, compared to those who said they did not want transition-related surgery.
    It's quite clear that they don't think the transition itself is responsible for the higher rate. In fact, in this extract they very strongly imply that surgical care for transition is beneficial, as can be seen from the emboldened text.

    Later on in the report (page 15 again), they reference two other papers (Dixen et al (1984) and De Cuypere et al (2006)) which showed a significant reduction in suicidal behaviour after transitional surgery.


    But none of this addresses the success of transition as a treatment for gender dysphoria anyway, which was my point.
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    (Original post by AlteredBoy)
    You don't get to decide if you're trans or not
    I'm talking in terms of choosing to identify as such.

    Regardless, children typically don't know any better until well into puberty. Most children showing transgender behaviors actually cease to do so after a while. Many are simply acting out for attention, which I don't think warrants entertaining.

    (Original post by AlteredBoy)
    2. It would do literally no harm to new schools to build a gender neutral facility, or when older ones have a refurbishment a little space from male and female facilities wouldn't go amiss in order to make at least one person feel more comfortable in education (lets face it all schools ted to care about is the grades the students get and students aren't going to do well if they don't feel comfortable at the centre.
    Transsexuals/transgenders form a very tiny portion of the population. I don't think it's in most school's budgets to construct new facilities for one or two students that may be having gender identity issues. There are often already neutral private facilities available for handicapped students which they could use, anyway.

    (Original post by AlteredBoy)
    Special Snowflake' is hardly appropriate to call trans people when cis boys can't handle their female peers having a bit of skin on show.
    Not even sure what you mean here. And most boys would be happy to see a little female skin...
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    (Original post by Dandaman1)
    Not even sure what you mean here. And most boys would be happy to see a little female skin...
    Clearly you have completely misunderstood what they meant by 'can't handle'.

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    (Original post by Moonstruck16)
    Clearly you have completely misunderstood what they meant by 'can't handle'.

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    (Edited)

    Assuming this interpretation, he's countering his own point. If male changing rooms are unsuitable for girls identifying as boys because these kids are going to leer at them, they're better off in the female changing rooms (where they're supposed to be anyway).
 
 
 
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