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    (Original post by daal roti hummus)
    If God created us all, and He knows everything that is ever going to happen. Hence, He knew everything that was ever going to happen from the moment (and even before) we were created (supposedly by Him). Therefore, did God create many individuals knowing that they would be punished in hell for eternity?

    If He didn't know an individual would be lead astray (and burn in hell), and then He proceeded to create that individual... then He isn't all knowing.

    However, if He did know the individual would be lead astray (and be tortured in hell for eternity), but He still proceeded to create this individual... what does this say about God?
    I've Studied at a catholic school. I'm not catholic but this is their perspective.

    Catholics argument: Like a father, God gives his children what they need, not everything they wan't. Also God would be abusing people's free will, if God stopped people who are about to create moral evil.
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    (Original post by Sfhkh)
    I've Studied at a catholic school. I'm not catholic but this is their perspective.

    Catholics argument: Like a father, God gives his children what they need, not everything they wan't. Also God would be abusing people's free will, if God stopped people who are about to create moral evil.
    Tbh I would rather have my free will impeded then to burn forever
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    (Original post by Mjcal1)
    Tbh I would rather have my free will impeded then to burn forever
    Catholics stand point:
    If you've created sinful acts which are not moral evil. You'll go to purgatory. Then you'll receive repentance. Also Jesus died creating salvation meaning humans could enter heaven and have their sins washed away. Immortality of the soul with happen.
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    (Original post by Sfhkh)
    I've Studied at a catholic school. I'm not catholic but this is their perspective.
    sure, no problem. Any perspective is appreciated

    (Original post by Sfhkh)
    Catholics argument: Like a father, God gives his children what they need, not everything they wan't.
    So God thinks some people need an eternity of hell-fire?

    (Original post by Sfhkh)
    Also God would be abusing people's free will, if God stopped people who are about to create moral evil.
    Not sure what you meant by this sorry.
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    (Original post by daal roti hummus)
    sure, no problem. Any perspective is appreciated



    So God thinks some people need an eternity of hell-fire?



    Not sure what you meant by this sorry.
    Yes, if you create a act of moral evil(rape and murder) you'll enter Hell.

    What I mean't was God cannot interfere with someone's free will. Therefore God will not stop a person from murdering someone.


    Atheists argument

    If God is omnipotent(all-powerful) surely God could stop evil and suffering in the world. If God is Omni-benevolent(All-loving) surely God would of created a world without suffering.

    Hope that makes sense.
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    (Original post by Sfhkh)
    Yes, if you create a act of moral evil(rape and murder) you'll enter Hell.

    What I mean was God cannot interfere with someone's free will. There God will not stop a person from murdering someone.


    Atheists argument

    If God is omnipotent(all-powerful) surely God could stop evil and suffering in the world. If God is Omni-benevolent(All-loving) surely God would of created a world without suffering.

    Hope that makes sense.
    Most atheists who are reasonably well informed theologically speaking would not use the "evil happens therefore God doesn't exist" narrative as it's a weak argument against God's existence. All it shows is that if a god does exist then he either isn't all-loving or just doesn't care about what we do.
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    (Original post by Mjcal1)
    Big talker, I like it.

    Can you prove that Allah exist?
    There are many ways i can go into this , either by looking at super natural things that 100% are true and science has no answer for OR nature.

    If i talk about supernatural your argument would be science will find out one day so I will no go down that path. I'll talk nature. Muslims belief in God stems from the fact we believe the Quran has no contradictions , people argue that too so I am not going to go down that path. Ill talk about nature in a bit.

    The Quran has many science proven stuff only found out recently , people tend to ignore that, I suggest you look into that.

    I keep talking about nature because the Quran says that it is a sign God exists. How does this beauty only exist on this plant and not other planets , how do plants survive and grow , I like this one. If we were random and we actually developed out of luck how the hell would a plant evolve to make its own food through photosynthesis straight away. They say complex organisms developed which is fair enough BUT how did a plant develop to survive straight away? Like a random cell comes out of no where but how the hell does that cell survive for how ever many years until it can produce food. I am sure you can agree that the plant does not just come into life being able to produce its own food like that else it would of happened else where in the galaxy yet to be proven BUT IS POSSIBLE.


    If you have noticed I am trying to be as simple as possible in a matter far more complicated , here is another point. We evolved/created after dinosaurs we know for a fact we could not survive around them and therefore they no longer exist. There are many theory's to what happend to them but don't you think that God did something to allow us to exist , muslims believe in a race before humans who lived on the earth AGAIN ARGUABLE AND THEREFORE WILL NOT GO INTO IT. My point is every thing seems to play right into our hands to the point where luck is no longer a option.

    To conclude my point are not great and please if you do not understand respond. Out knowledge is so small and if you think about it , lets say you know about 2% of what there is dont you think the 98% has GOD in it.
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    ... God knows everything ,yes, so some off you will say what is the point right? Why do we live if God knows everything? well firstly as humans we just know we are created to worship God ,WHY? God knows best . The second point is although God knows everything he did not choose that for us , this is not like SIMS where GOD controls us , we have our free will. God knows some will go to hell and sin but God didn't choose that we did using our free will.

    Why God will let his creation suffer in hell is another argument and if someone requests it I will respond.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Most atheists who are reasonably well informed theologically speaking would not use the "evil happens therefore God doesn't exist" narrative as it's a weak argument against God's existence. All it shows is that if a god does exist then he either isn't all-loving or just doesn't care about what we do.
    I guess you could talk about the Theory Of Evolution and the Big Bang Theory and how it answers the existence of the universe without the need for a intelligant designer.

    Argument...
    The Big Bang Theory was partly discovered by Lematre a priest.
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    (Original post by Nuwfall)
    ... God knows everything ,yes, so some off you will say what is the point right? Why do we live if God knows everything? well firstly as humans we just know we are created to worship God ,WHY? God knows best . The second point is although God knows everything he did not choose that for us , this is not like SIMS where GOD controls us , we have our free will. God knows some will go to hell and sin but God didn't choose that we did using our free will.

    Why God will let his creation suffer in hell is another argument and if someone requests it I will respond.
    Relates back to Adam and Eve - Evil being unleashed into the world.
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    God does not interfere with evil as we have free will , God allowed the devil to cause evil to test his creation . There reason evil exists is to test us , if you dont believe in God then you wont get this point but if you believe in God and that life is one big test then this will make so much sense it is no longer arguable. God wont go against his word to the devil and interfere. The story is the devil defied God and as his last request he was allowed to cause evil so he does not fall alone. Our free will accepts this evil or defy it and therefore God is not bad but we are and that is why God is merciful if you repent back NO MATTER WHAT YOU DID.
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    (Original post by Nuwfall)
    There are many ways i can go into this , either by looking at super natural things that 100% are true and science has no answer for OR nature.

    If i talk about supernatural your argument would be science will find out one day so I will no go down that path. I'll talk nature. Muslims belief in God stems from the fact we believe the Quran has no contradictions , people argue that too so I am not going to go down that path. Ill talk about nature in a bit.

    The Quran has many science proven stuff only found out recently , people tend to ignore that, I suggest you look into that.

    I keep talking about nature because the Quran says that it is a sign God exists. How does this beauty only exist on this plant and not other planets , how do plants survive and grow , I like this one. If we were random and we actually developed out of luck how the hell would a plant evolve to make its own food through photosynthesis straight away. They say complex organisms developed which is fair enough BUT how did a plant develop to survive straight away? Like a random cell comes out of no where but how the hell does that cell survive for how ever many years until it can produce food. I am sure you can agree that the plant does not just come into life being able to produce its own food like that else it would of happened else where in the galaxy yet to be proven BUT IS POSSIBLE.


    If you have noticed I am trying to be as simple as possible in a matter far more complicated , here is another point. We evolved/created after dinosaurs we know for a fact we could not survive around them and therefore they no longer exist. There are many theory's to what happend to them but don't you think that God did something to allow us to exist , muslims believe in a race before humans who lived on the earth AGAIN ARGUABLE AND THEREFORE WILL NOT GO INTO IT. My point is every thing seems to play right into our hands to the point where luck is no longer a option.

    To conclude my point are not great and please if you do not understand respond. Out knowledge is so small and if you think about it , lets say you know about 2% of what there is dont you think the 98% has GOD in it.
    What you're basically saying is, we don't have the answers so it must be god. Why is it 1 God instead of one hundred.

    I've already looked into the scientific quranic miracles, and it turns out 7th century Arabia wasn't the first time the embryology came up. (Should we believe in their religions)

    maybe you've convinced others but not me unfortunately
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    (Original post by Sfhkh)
    I guess you could talk about the Theory Of Evolution and the Big Bang Theory and how it answers the existence of the universe without the need for a intelligant designer.

    Argument...
    The Big Bang Theory was partly discovered by Lematre a priest.
    I'm not really sure what the purpose of your last comment was. Someone's religion has no bearing on the scientific discovery they make.
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    (Original post by Mjcal1)
    What you're basically saying is, we don't have the answers so it must be god. Why is it 1 God instead of one hundred.

    I've already looked into the scientific quranic miracles, and it turns out 7th century Arabia wasn't the first time the embryology came up. (Should we believe in their religions)

    maybe you've convinced others but not me unfortunately
    Very good points , firstly there is 1 God because if there was more they would always argue , mentioned in the quran. Why need 100 Gods when there is 1 God who can preform everything. 100 Gods who are the same seems pointless if they can do the same thing.

    embryology came up before but never in the depth quran says , and thats not really the science I'm talking about since i know people will argue about. For example an atom is 99.9% free , the Quran stated that human kind will fit into a mosqitue wing or something with similar meaning I DONT KNOW DONT TAKE THIS AS I AM RIGHT , PROBABLY WRONG but the quran does say that all human kind can fit into a small object and that was only proven know since we atoms are 99.9% free as stated before. Any other questions?
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    (Original post by Nuwfall)
    There are many ways i can go into this , either by looking at super natural things that 100% are true and science has no answer for OR nature.

    If i talk about supernatural your argument would be science will find out one day so I will no go down that path. I'll talk nature. Muslims belief in God stems from the fact we believe the Quran has no contradictions , people argue that too so I am not going to go down that path. Ill talk about nature in a bit.

    The Quran has many science proven stuff only found out recently , people tend to ignore that, I suggest you look into that.

    I keep talking about nature because the Quran says that it is a sign God exists. How does this beauty only exist on this plant and not other planets , how do plants survive and grow , I like this one. If we were random and we actually developed out of luck how the hell would a plant evolve to make its own food through photosynthesis straight away. They say complex organisms developed which is fair enough BUT how did a plant develop to survive straight away? Like a random cell comes out of no where but how the hell does that cell survive for how ever many years until it can produce food. I am sure you can agree that the plant does not just come into life being able to produce its own food like that else it would of happened else where in the galaxy yet to be proven BUT IS POSSIBLE.


    If you have noticed I am trying to be as simple as possible in a matter far more complicated , here is another point. We evolved/created after dinosaurs we know for a fact we could not survive around them and therefore they no longer exist. There are many theory's to what happend to them but don't you think that God did something to allow us to exist , muslims believe in a race before humans who lived on the earth AGAIN ARGUABLE AND THEREFORE WILL NOT GO INTO IT. My point is every thing seems to play right into our hands to the point where luck is no longer a option.

    To conclude my point are not great and please if you do not understand respond. Out knowledge is so small and if you think about it , lets say you know about 2% of what there is dont you think the 98% has GOD in it.
    The Quran contains absolutely no scientific miracles or science that is only being recently discovered. Muslims make this claim all the time yet always fail to provide the peer-reviewed journals proving this.

    But there is 0% evidence that God did it so where are you getting this 98% from?
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    I'm not really sure what the purpose of your last comment was. Someone's religion has no bearing on the scientific discovery they make.
    Ooops I mean't that you can believe in the Big Bang Theory and God at the same time. Francis Collins who is a committed Christian believes in The Big Bang Theory.
    Also the argument of design is supported by evidence from physics that the universe is finely turned for life.
    Somewhere along those lines.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    The Quran contains absolutely no scientific miracles or science that is only being recently discovered. Muslims make this claim all the time yet always fail to provide the peer-reviewed journals proving this.

    But there is 0% evidence that God did it so where are you getting this 98% from?
    ??? Firstly there are science miracles in the quran and even non-muslims agree there arguments are for example it was suggested before and the quran copied it or something similar. Research into quran and science and you will see. I will not argue with you here since you don't seem to have the knowledge.

    My point is if you only know 2% of everything ,as i am sure you do not know everything, doesnt that mean that the 98% could include that God exists.
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    (Original post by Sfhkh)
    Ooops I mean't that you can believe in the Big Bang Theory and God at the same time. Francis Collins who is a committed Christian believes in The Big Bang Theory.
    Also the argument of design is supported by evidence from physics that the universe is finely turned for life.
    Somewhere along those lines.
    The Quran actually talks about the big bang theory , everything started from one point however ,obviously, God caused that. THIS MAY NOT BE TRUE BUT SOME OF THE SCOLARS INTERPRETED THAT.
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    (Original post by Sfhkh)
    Ooops I mean't that you can believe in the Big Bang Theory and God at the same time. Francis Collins who is a committed Christian believes in The Big Bang Theory.
    Also the argument of design is supported by evidence from physics that the universe is finely turned for life.
    Somewhere along those lines.
    Indeed you can and no informed atheist would deny this.

    The fine tuning argument isn't convincing because it can easily be explained by the anthropic principle.
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    (Original post by Nuwfall)
    The Quran actually talks about the big bang theory , everything started from one point however ,obviously, God caused that. THIS MAY NOT BE TRUE BUT SOME OF THE SCOLARS INTERPRETED THAT.
    The Quran does not mention the Big Bang. It makes vague and ambiguous claims about the heavens and Earth being joined and then parted which in any case is wrong. The Earth wasn't present during the Big Bang because planets didn't form until billions of years after the initial expansion.
 
 
 
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