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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Again, they're not and the logical incompatibility has been explained. Simply saying they are doesn't mean they are.
    I have explanations to believe they are. So they are.
    • #17
    #17

    Extremely tricky situation, I would go and talk to a GP about this, even though you might think it's not needed I think it would be helpful. I personally don't believe in a religion because I think it is made to restrict you in a lot of ways. This is good for the government and societies although I can understand some or most of the rules (depending on which religion that is) I think if you believe in most of the religion but some parts you do not, I would change your outlook on the religion and change the rules to suit you and what you believe in.

    But at the end of the day you can do anything you want or think is right to do.
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    (Original post by student.feed)
    Hijabs aren't stupid. There is a reason as to why there are hiqabs. Are you trying influence her decision just because you personally don't like hiqabs. I agree that if she wants to take it off, she should but it is HER decision and there are reasons for hiqabs. There is more to why she wants to get rid of her hiqab she is also questioning her faith. So I understand that you are trying to help but don't try to pressure your belief on others.
    explain to me why hijabs make sense then, and how they are not representations of middle eastern patriarchy?
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    (Original post by BubbleBoobies)
    explain to me why hijabs make sense then, and how they are not representations of middle eastern patriarchy?
    1. I wouldn't think you would understand Middle Eastern patriarchy since you don't have any first hand experience.

    2. As a muslim woman myself who doesn't wear a hijab, I see the point of modesty. That being said many people who wear hijabs wear un modest clothing underneath.

    3. When we pray, we are separated by gender. We are required to cover ourselves. So this isn't patriarchy that we are talking about
    • #18
    #18

    Girl, first of all, I'm sorry you're facing this. Secondly, I'm a devoted Muslim and backed up with my years of research and studies, I can assure you, that verse is VERY poorly translated. Can you imagine the Prophet PBUH commanding Hazrat Ali RA to beat his daughter Hazrat Fatima? He loved her somuch!
    Coming to the point, I would urge you not to make hasty decisions. I want you to think about what you're doing why you're doing. Do you really think removing a simple peace of cloth will make you happy if you're depressed? Do youthink you feeling ugly has to do with something tied to your head? Do you believe if you fit society's standard of 36 24 36 you're beautiful and not otherwise? Are you really trying ti take off your hijab so you canget compliments from others, as if their compliments is the verification of you being beautiful? Do you know Allah called every female his beautiful creation and he cares about us. He tells us he will count our tears and make the person who made us cry payfor it.
    I also want you to analyze if what you're about todo is not you being clouded by your emotions.
    If you don't like the hijab, it is okay. I feel a very wrong method of teaching islam has been inculcated in our society. Islam asks you to think. Ponder over the laws first, think about the creator. Ponder over his attributes. Think of his power. Research into this, because i assure you, unless you aren't 100% satisfied with Islam being the truth, none of this will be accepted by your heart and lifewill be hell. My journey started with the roots
    I researched if Islam was actually the truth. And when i came to a yes, all commands seemed easy
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    (Original post by student.feed)
    1. I wouldn't think you would understand Middle Eastern patriarchy since you don't have any first hand experience.
    you've had no first hand experience of anything, so how can you possibly talk?
    can you criticise north korea? nope
    can you criticise the KKK? nope
    can you criticise nazis? nope
    can you criticise terrorists? nope
    -your logic. not mine (Y)

    2. As a muslim woman myself who doesn't wear a hijab, I see the point of modesty. That being said many people who wear hijabs wear un modest clothing underneath.
    there's a difference between modesty and wearing a middle eastern rag over your head though, isn't there. are you saying that women in the west aren't modest enough? what is the standard by which we measure this?

    3. When we pray, we are separated by gender. We are required to cover ourselves. So this isn't patriarchy that we are talking about
    ...why are you separated by gender
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    (Original post by champ_mc99)
    I have explanations to believe they are. So they are.
    They're not and funny how you're not providing these explanations.
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    (Original post by BubbleBoobies)
    you've had no first hand experience of anything, so how can you possibly talk?
    can you criticise north korea? nope
    can you criticise the KKK? nope
    can you criticise nazis? nope
    can you criticise terrorists? nope
    -your logic. not mine (Y)


    there's a difference between modesty and wearing a middle eastern rag over your head though, isn't there. are you saying that women in the west aren't modest enough? what is the standard by which we measure this?



    ...why are you separated by gender
    I have first hand experience and that is why I am educating you, lol. By the way, you cannot talk about my incapability, while your talking complete rubbish. For a side note, why have you said North Korea, KKK, Nazis, and terrorists as an example for something controversial almost like you are relating it to Islam.

    The "middle eastern rag" you are referring to is a hijab. So out of respect can you can it a hijab. Women in the west can wear whatever they want as to what any woman wants to wear. I am not criticising it as I am not the one perhaps in that culture etc so I don't feel entitled to critic their culture. Moving on, the hijab compels men to focus on the real personality of the woman and de-emphasizes her physical beauty. It puts the woman in control of strangers’ reaction to her. While being modest ensures this, a hijab covers the hair, neck and breasts which help her not be stared at in an undermining way. In the Quran it does not say to wear a hijab but only to be modest.
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    (Original post by geniequeen48)
    Salam sis,
    I'm really sorry that you're going through this. I hope in sha Allah things get better for you. If I were you, as others said, research more about why it is worn, or take it off. I hate it when people force religion on their kids without actually teaching them. As another person said "There is no compulsion in religion" so I don't think it should be forced at all. You can't embrace something to impress your parents or family etc, you should do it for yourself, e.g. praying 5 times a day.
    You can still be a muslim without your hijab. I have a very good friend who is very religious yet doesn't wear the hijab. She also tries to dress modestly and be modest even without a scarf on her head. There are hijabis with vulgar characters and do who knows what even though they might wear it properly. Everyone is different. You can sit your parents down and talk to them (try, some people have wrong impressions of how they will react to things). If they do anything abusive verbal or physical, then I hate to say it but, maybe even call social services if its that extreme. Make dua to Allah that it goes well.
    I agree so much. It actually angers me.
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    (Original post by student.feed)
    I have first hand experience and that is why I am educating you, lol. By the way, you cannot talk about my incapability, while your talking complete rubbish. For a side note, why have you said North Korea, KKK, Nazis, and terrorists as an example for something controversial almost like you are relating it to Islam.
    no, that's not my point - you were saying that *I* don't have first hand experience and therefore implying that this means I can't form a coherent opinion, somehow. this would then have to suggest similarly that you wouldn't be able to criticise things like north korea, nazis, racism etc, because you have never been a north korean, a racist, a nazi etc so technically "you wouldn't understand them" - is that valid to say? if not, then you've made no sense here
    and I wasn't trying to link islam to those things, but I wouldnt exactly care if you thought I was, because islam is a barbaric religion when you actually open up the qur'an and read it literally (which is obviously the manner in which the author intended the readers to read it in - the same goes for the bible an torah - we simply happen to have cultures where we don't believe in religion, practically speaking)

    "middle eastern rag" you are referring to is a hijab. So out of respect can you can it a hijab. Women in the west can wear whatever they want as to what any woman wants to wear. I am not criticising it as I am not the one perhaps in that culture etc so I don't feel entitled to critic their culture. Moving on, the hijab compels men to focus on the real personality of the woman and de-emphasizes her physical beauty. It puts the woman in control of strangers’ reaction to her. While being modest ensures this, a hijab covers the hair, neck and breasts which help her not be stared at in an undermining way. In the Quran it does not say to wear a hijab but only to be modest.
    I'll call it a hellojab - let's meet half way
    and where are you getting this baffling idea that you can only criticse something if you are an adherent to it? again, does that mean that you can't claim that stalin and mao zedong were bad people just because you're not a communist?
    and if the heyjab compels men in this way, surely men should also wear the hellojab to compel women similarly...? so would you be in favour of men wearing the waddupjab? this would go especially for the men with luxurious locks. but seeing as you're now talking about breasts, for some reason, we could also compel men to wear similar rags to cover their pecks, right? I didn't think the lowjab could cover one's chest
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    (Original post by BubbleBoobies)
    no, that's not my point - you were saying that *I* don't have first hand experience and therefore implying that this means I can't form a coherent opinion, somehow. this would then have to suggest similarly that you wouldn't be able to criticise things like north korea, nazis, racism etc, because you have never been a north korean, a racist, a nazi etc so technically "you wouldn't understand them" - is that valid to say? if not, then you've made no sense here
    and I wasn't trying to link islam to those things, but I wouldnt exactly care if you thought I was, because islam is a barbaric religion when you actually open up the qur'an and read it literally (which is obviously the manner in which the author intended the readers to read it in - the same goes for the bible an torah - we simply happen to have cultures where we don't believe in religion, practically speaking)



    I'll call it a hellojab - let's meet half way
    and where are you getting this baffling idea that you can only criticse something if you are an adherent to it? again, does that mean that you can't claim that stalin and mao zedong were bad people just because you're not a communist?
    and if the heyjab compels men in this way, surely men should also wear the hellojab to compel women similarly...? so would you be in favour of men wearing the waddupjab? this would go especially for the men with luxurious locks. but seeing as you're now talking about breasts, for some reason, we could also compel men to wear similar rags to cover their pecks, right? I didn't think the lowjab could cover one's chest

    Muslim men wear similar garments. Check yourself before you wreck yourself. You are obviously an islamophobic woman and I don't feel comfortable talking to you any longer. The sister who wants to remove her hijab "who you are defending" is also muslim. So...
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    (Original post by BubbleBoobies)
    no, that's not my point - you were saying that *I* don't have first hand experience and therefore implying that this means I can't form a coherent opinion, somehow. this would then have to suggest similarly that you wouldn't be able to criticise things like north korea, nazis, racism etc, because you have never been a north korean, a racist, a nazi etc so technically "you wouldn't understand them" - is that valid to say? if not, then you've made no sense here
    and I wasn't trying to link islam to those things, but I wouldnt exactly care if you thought I was, because islam is a barbaric religion when you actually open up the qur'an and read it literally (which is obviously the manner in which the author intended the readers to read it in - the same goes for the bible an torah - we simply happen to have cultures where we don't believe in religion, practically speaking)



    I'll call it a hellojab - let's meet half way
    and where are you getting this baffling idea that you can only criticse something if you are an adherent to it? again, does that mean that you can't claim that stalin and mao zedong were bad people just because you're not a communist?
    and if the heyjab compels men in this way, surely men should also wear the hellojab to compel women similarly...? so would you be in favour of men wearing the waddupjab? this would go especially for the men with luxurious locks. but seeing as you're now talking about breasts, for some reason, we could also compel men to wear similar rags to cover their pecks, right? I didn't think the lowjab could cover one's chest
    This is a thread where someone is seeking personal advice. Please take this meta-discussion somewhere else.
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    (Original post by student.feed)

    Muslim men wear similar garments. Check yourself before you wreck yourself. You are obviously an islamophobic woman and I don't feel comfortable talking to you any longer. The sister who wants to remove her hijab "who you are defending" is also muslim. So...
    How dishonest of you to post that picture when you know full well that the overwhelming majority of Muslim men wear no such thing.
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    (Original post by student.feed)

    Muslim men wear similar garments. Check yourself before you wreck yourself. You are obviously an islamophobic woman and I don't feel comfortable talking to you any longer. The sister who wants to remove her hijab "who you are defending" is also muslim. So...
    I think that man is oppressed...just joking
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    How dishonest of you to post that picture when you know full well that the overwhelming majority of Muslim men wear no such thing.

    Just search muslim man is images
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    (Original post by student.feed)

    Just search muslim man is images
    Again, anyone who lives in the real world knows that most Muslim men don't wear that. We're not retarded people that you can lie to you know.
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    (Original post by Zitterbart)
    This is a thread where someone is seeking personal advice. Please take this meta-discussion somewhere else.
    I agree. Sorry, the conversion dragged on for a bit I did sent a message to the lady who needed help before sending a message to the other lady.
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    (Original post by student.feed)

    Muslim men wear similar garments. Check yourself before you wreck yourself. You are obviously an islamophobic woman and I don't feel comfortable talking to you any longer. The sister who wants to remove her hijab "who you are defending" is also muslim. So...
    #CultureNotReligion
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    (Original post by BubbleBoobies)

    +hijabs are oppressive and patriarchal
    Are you for real?!?!?
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Again, anyone who lives in the real world knows that most Muslim men don't wear that. We're not retarded people that you can lie to you know.
    But they do. Take it from a muslim woman that lives in London. Do you live in the suburbs or somewhere? It is either the headpiece or this:

 
 
 
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