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    The very simple fact is that skilled graduates bring more money into the country than it costs to educate them. We have a research and service based economy, where we need skilled workers. Right now immigrants are holding our economy up for us because British natives don't have the skills that we need. We need MORE graduates, they're a huge boost to our economy, and we shouldn't have hard-working, bright young people being put off because we don't want to pay to fix our *****y country.
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    (Original post by JordanL_)
    Like I said, wait until you've graduated. Opinions change. It's incredibly naive to think you're going to walk out of uni and straight into a decent job just because you "worked hard". The real world doesn't work like that, but the Tories thrive by convincing poor people like you that one day you'll be rich, just like them, if you just "work hard". I can empathise with you, because I used to have the same naive views.
    Just because I "worked hard" is exactly the reason I'll have a high paid job unless I suddenly become stupid or suddenly stop working hard. If I only ended up with a decent job I'd be dissapointed, maybe where we're different is how high we each aim.
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    (Original post by bob5124)
    Graduates still pay off the cost of their degree multiple times over due to the extra tax, so you have absolutely no case. There is no net loss due to funding education.



    Their motivation is not relevant. All that is relevant is that it is paid for multiple times over, over the course of the graduates life due to the higher income (which means there was no loss for the government), and any research produced benefits the country as a whole. I'm sorry if you think that there is no benefit to educating a population above GCSE level, but this is simply not true.



    Irrelevant. Higher education still pays for itself many times over.
    I never said that there is a net loss. I said that your tax revenue as a result of your now higher income is likely to be very irrelevant in terms of its effect on the entire economy. This was in response to someone saying it benefits society more.

    Sorry if I don't think studying communications at university is going to help society.

    Anyways, the main issue here is WHY should the government pay? It is just like buying groceries. YOU benefit most from the investment. Besides, if hardly anyone is being deterred from having to pay then what is the issue? If someone suddenly decides to not go university because the fees increase, I think that is their issue that they cannot see how much of a difference education can have on their future income. Even if fees increased to say 15000, that means you will be in 45K min debt compared to 27. This in the long run over your career will quite insignificant (if you even pay it back).
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    (Original post by ComputerMaths97)
    Just because I "worked hard" is exactly the reason I'll have a high paid job unless I suddenly become stupid or suddenly stop working hard. If I only ended up with a decent job I'd be dissapointed, maybe where we're different is how high we each aim.
    Just because you aim for a high paid job and would be disappointed with less doesn't mean you're going to get one. Do you honestly, genuinely believe that everyone working a **** job is there because they didn't work hard enough? Even the very top universities have graduates coming out unemployment. Do you honestly believe they're all just lazy? You're lying to yourself. There aren't enough jobs in the country for everyone, there will ALWAYS be a certain amount of unemployed people, and there are far more factors than just hard work that determine who those people are.

    Unless you're doing computer science, there's a reasonable chance that when you finish uni there'll be no demand for your particular skills, and all the jobs are being filled by people who worked EVEN HARDER than you, or people living closer to those jobs, or people with connections in those fields.

    You're a dreamer. I've worked hard all my life but I'm not pretending to myself that I'm guaranteed a good job. I aim high too, the only difference is I realize there are factors outside my control that might stop me getting to where I aim. Like I said, you'll probably come to realize this after graduating.
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    (Original post by JordanL_)
    Unless you're doing computer science, there's a reasonable chance that when you finish uni there'll be no demand for your particular skills, and all the jobs are being filled by people who worked EVEN HARDER than you, or people living closer to those jobs, or people with connections in those fields.
    The clue is in his user name.

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    Have pitty for us international students guys, im on the verge of deferring my entry fml
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    (Original post by jneill)
    The clue is in his user name.

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    He could be doing maths. But yeah, I meant to say but forgot - even doing computer science you're not guaranteed a job. I can't remember exactly but I think compsci has one of the highest graduate unemployment rates?
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Well for it to be a lifetime of debt they need to die before 51 (normally), i.e. before the loan is written off, and it's hardly insecure on the part of the student.
    I see
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    More young people complaining about still paying practically nothing for their useless sociology and media studies degrees until they're actually earning a decent salary?

    At least England isn't like the rest of Europe, where the taxpayer gets the bill for your student life.
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    (Original post by JordanL_)
    He could be doing maths. But yeah, I meant to say but forgot - even doing computer science you're not guaranteed a job. I can't remember exactly but I think compsci has one of the highest graduate unemployment rates?
    So bad that the government has commissioned a review into the problem: http://www.hefce.ac.uk/kess/gradstemreview/csreview/
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    (Original post by AngryRedhead)
    Time to go study in Europe methinks, £9000 a year is already ridiculous enough as it is considering for most subjects all they do is sit in a building and get a powerpoint presentation orated to them
    I'm applying to uni in the Netherlands because I found the same course at a uni in Netherlands for about £1300 a year, when it would be 9k a year. Not turning that down.

    (Original post by Reue)
    Show me a situation where a student from 'poor' background is unable to go to university due to the cost of tuition fees?
    Poor people will go to university as long as there's loans. But there are people who have dodged the debt.

    http://www.theguardian.com/education...ity-lower-fees

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34721679
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    (Original post by JordanL_)
    He could be doing maths. But yeah, I meant to say but forgot - even doing computer science you're not guaranteed a job. I can't remember exactly but I think compsci has one of the highest graduate unemployment rates?
    Yep. I think a lot of people do CompSci expecting a more vocational degree with Microsoft Certification etc and a guaranteed job at Ubisoft or something.
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    (Original post by MrsSheldonCooper)
    I'm applying to uni in the Netherlands because of I found the same course at a uni in Netherlands for about £1300 a year, when it would be 9k a year. Not turning that down.
    You speak Dutch?

    (Original post by MrsSheldonCooper)
    Poor people will go to university as long as there's loans. But there are people who have dodged the debt.

    http://www.theguardian.com/education...ity-lower-fees

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34721679
    I don't have student debt. My masters cost €400 (and some people here still find it's too much).
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    (Original post by MrsSheldonCooper)
    I'm applying to uni in the Netherlands because of I found the same course at a uni in Netherlands for about £1300 a year, when it would be 9k a year. Not turning that down.



    Poor people will go to university as long as there's loans. But there are people who have dodged the debt.

    http://www.theguardian.com/education...ity-lower-fees

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34721679
    Oh sweet, what is it?

    What a-levels and grades do they need?
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    (Original post by Josb)
    You speak Dutch?


    I don't have student debt. My masters cost €400 (and some people here still find it's too much).
    Only a bit of it. My course in the Netherlands is in English. I'm torn between which one to go for though because I've decided to go next year..

    Where did you do your Masters??
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    (Original post by jneill)
    Yep. I think a lot of people do CompSci expecting a more vocational degree with Microsoft Certification etc and a guaranteed job at Ubisoft or something.
    Yep, many CompSci courses are quite theoretical and don't teach many programming languages, whilst this is what employers want. It's a shame that there aren't more vocational schools in the UK since Polytechnics have become "universities".
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    (Original post by AngryRedhead)
    Oh sweet, what is it?

    What a-levels and grades do they need?
    It's English Language and Literature with a semester abroad in New Zealand
    OR
    European Studies.

    Both of them say they want pass grades but I'm aiming for AAB
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    (Original post by lahorizon)
    I never said that there is a net loss. I said that your tax revenue as a result of your now higher income is likely to be very irrelevant in terms of its effect on the entire economy.
    The government gets back its cash investment in you multiple times over, the government has made money, and the government has a more educated population as well, what is your complaint exactly? You have failed to establish a reason for the increased tuition fees, considering that the government makes money off of it to begin with through the higher taxes paid over the course of the student's life.

    (Original post by lahorizon)
    Sorry if I don't think studying communications at university is going to help society.
    First of all, you wanted higher tuition fees for everyone, not just those studying communications. Second of all, even those studying communications receive an overall higher income on average compared to those who did not go to university, so they still pay off the cost of the degree through the higher tax they pay,

    (Original post by lahorizon)
    Anyways, the main issue here is WHY should the government pay? It is just like buying groceries. YOU benefit most from the investment.
    The government gets its investment back multiple times over. Why shouldn't the government pay when its making money off the investment? You have failed to establish a case for increased fees.
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    (Original post by MrsSheldonCooper)
    Only a bit of it. My course in the Netherlands is in English. I'm torn between which one to go for though because I've decided to go next year..
    What's your uni? You take a gap year then?

    (Original post by MrsSheldonCooper)
    Where did you do your Masters??
    In France. Don't go there. It's cheap for a reason.
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    (Original post by bob5124)
    The government gets back its cash investment in you multiple times over, the government has made money, and the government has a more educated population as well, what is your complaint exactly? You have failed to establish a reason for the increased tuition fees, considering that the government makes money off of it to begin with through the higher taxes paid over the course of the student's life.



    First of all, you wanted higher tuition fees for everyone, not just those studying communications. Second of all, even those studying communications receive an overall higher income on average compared to those who did not go to university, so they still pay off the cost of the degree through the higher tax they pay,



    The government gets its investment back multiple times over. Why shouldn't the government pay when its making money off the investment? You have failed to establish a case for increased fees.
    How about the government also pays for all new hair salons and grocery shops because they make money from it? Oh wait.. it doesn't work like that. Yes the government will benefit but why should tax money from people who decide to not go to university go towards those who do want it. The degree holder benefits first THEN the government and at the very end is the individual taxpayer. Not all degrees are useful and worth the government paying for. Besides where is all this money supposed to come from exactly?
 
 
 
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