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Even if you're pro-guns, why on earth are automatic rifles available in America?

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Original post by The_Opinion
So you want to punish the majority for the actions of a small minority?

Then by that logic surely you think Islam should be banned in the US as well.


Banning guns isnt a punishment. If people want to feel like their dicks are bigger then they can buy a Hummer.

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Original post by Lime-man
Banning guns isnt a punishment. If people want to feel like their dicks are bigger then they can buy a Hummer.

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Of course its a punishment, by your logic, Islam should be banned in the US, you either punish most for the actions of few, or you don't.
Reply 202
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L i b
19
Original post by QE2
My point was, if an intruder comes into your house at night, you are going to have to ask them to wait while you get out of bed, go to the safe, unlock it, and get your gun (probably having to load it first), before challenging them.

Presumably you'd do that before talking to them. You seem to be presenting turning a key in a cabinet (or pressing a few numbers, if you're a bit modern) as some sort of insurmountable challenge.

More importantly, studies in the US have shown that keeping a gun in the home makes you much more likely to be shot than someone without a gun.


Yes, we've discussed this. Having dangerous things in your home is more dangerous than not - I don't think there's anyone out there who doesn't accept that. The point is that you can take reasonable and sensible precautions which make the chances of someone being accidentally shot by a gun in your home virtually nil.

People who handle guns should be familiar with how to do it safely and they should be safely stored. Many people are foolish and don't do that. Meanwhile it's not really a problem for the sensible and cautious.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by The_Opinion
Of course its a punishment, by your logic, Islam should be banned in the US, you either punish most for the actions of few, or you don't.


More people die from lack of gun control in the USA than from radical islamic terrorism. More to the point, with proper gun control there would be less reason to worry about radical islam so no, your point is still moot

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Reply 204
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L i b
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Original post by Lime-man
No i want guns prohibited. Theres no reason to have a gun other than to make your dick feel bigger.


Shooting animals (and I don't even mean huntin' and shootin' style, but pest control and humane dispatch), target shooting (clay pigeon shooting is pretty good fun), getting something to eat. There are obviously huge numbers of legitimate uses for guns - in the UK we require a legitimate purpose to hold them most of the time, and we have thousands.
Original post by L i b
Shooting animals (and I don't even mean huntin' and shootin' style, but pest control and humane dispatch), target shooting (clay pigeon shooting is pretty good fun), getting something to eat. There are obviously huge numbers of legitimate uses for guns - in the UK we require a legitimate purpose to hold them most of the time, and we have thousands.


Yes but domestic use is still prohibited and we havent had a school shooting in decades, in fact it was a school shooting that led to prohibition in the first place.

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Reply 206
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L i b
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Original post by Lime-man
Yes but domestic use is still prohibited and we havent had a school shooting in decades, in fact it was a school shooting that led to prohibition in the first place.


I'm not sure what you mean by "domestic use"? That would imply on your own property - and is quite simply untrue. We don't have any restrictions of that sort.

Dunblane led to extra restrictions on handguns. There is certainly a good reason to have additional restrictions on handguns, but I think what we have goes too far in many cases and restricts a lot of legitimate activity. We were faced with the hypocrisy of having to have special permission to host handgun sporting events in the UK. Meanwhile, our Olympic teams that use handguns have to train in Northern Ireland, the Channel Islands, the Isle of Man or abroad. That's not reasonable.

In any case, you're rather making my case for me: we have broadly sensible gun-control measures and low rates of gun-crime. You're the one calling for change here.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Lime-man
Australia...

I never said that prohibition would happen in the blink of an eye...

Who can walk down the local gun store to buy a gun? Bloody anyone, no matter their intentions. If a criminal can save up thousands of dollars to buy a gun on the black market then they're probably not mad and impulsive enough to shoot up a school. A law abiding citizen isnt a law abiding citizen if theyre buying a gun on the black market.

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Australia isn't the same culture as America and im certain they dont have nearly the same amount of guns on their streets.

Exactly, so as i said only criminals will.

So a madman wont save up for a gun but they'll fly planes into the world trade centre?

Taking something away from somebody who isn't doing anything wrong is a punishment. Even if it were to show how big their dick is or some other nonsense, same could be said about fast cars; shall we have an 80 mile an hour cap on engines ffs? Or maybe only let women have anything that might be considered remotely macho becuase they dont have penis' and therefore their intentions are pure in your eyes?

You become more incoherent with every post.
Original post by L i b
I'm not sure what you mean by "domestic use"? That would imply on your own property - and is quite simply untrue. We don't have any restrictions of that sort.

Dunblane led to extra restrictions on handguns. There is certainly a good reason to have additional restrictions on handguns, but I think what we have goes too far in many cases and restricts a lot of legitimate activity.

In any case, you're rather making my case for me: we have broadly sensible gun-control measures and low rates of gun-crime. You're the one calling for change here.


I think we have a near perfect regime atm regarding gun control. I say domestic use as in we need a license and an appropriate reason to even own a gun, and yes there are some who own guns in the uk without a license but they can only do so if they dont shout about it and keep it underwraps. I.e. if you use your gun it gets taken away so dont

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Reply 209
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L i b
19
Original post by Lime-man
I think we have a near perfect regime atm regarding gun control.

That's funny, I could've sworn that you said "i want guns prohibited. Theres no reason to have a gun other than to make your dick feel bigger" a mere three-quarters of an hour ago.

and yes there are some who own guns in the uk without a license but they can only do so if they dont shout about it and keep it underwraps


I'd put it to you that we're actually fairly tolerant of illegally held firearms in this country. You still see criminals ringing off automatic weapons at funerals in parts of Britain. Northern Ireland isn't the only issue though - I've been quite startled by the number of incidents of guns being discharged in the streets of London and the West Midlands. I find it genuinely concerning.
Original post by Lime-man
I think we have a near perfect regime atm regarding gun control.


I am not so sure. The antique exemption isn't working as it should

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-35615180

The ban on the very specialised weapons used by target shooters in the Olympic classes is unnecessary and could be addressed by securing the weapons at shooting clubs.
Original post by L i b
That's funny, I could've sworn that you said "i want guns prohibited. Theres no reason to have a gun other than to make your dick feel bigger" a mere three-quarters of an hour ago.

I mean for the average joe who spouts out shtuff like "i need it for protection". Im not being funny right but not everyone needs a gun.

I'd put it to you that we're actually fairly tolerant of illegally held firearms in this country. You still see criminals ringing off automatic weapons at funerals in parts of Britain. Northern Ireland isn't the only issue though - I've been quite startled by the number of incidents of guns being discharged in the streets of London and the West Midlands. I find it genuinely concerning.


Hence why i said near perfect. I know that we're fairly tolerant but if we dont know where the guns are then they're obviously not causing too much trouble so we can afford to be tolerant in that regard. However i wouldnt pbject to it if we decided to be more strict. I dont need a gun, i know few people that do (all farmers).



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Original post by Lime-man
More people die from lack of gun control in the USA than from radical islamic terrorism. More to the point, with proper gun control there would be less reason to worry about radical islam so no, your point is still moot

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So it is just a numbers game to you?

If you take out gang violence, the numbers are not actually that large.

Without Muslims there would be less to worry about radical Islam, see, it works both ways.

If you are against guns, you should also be against Islam in the US by the same logic.
Reply 213
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L i b
19
Original post by nulli tertius
I am not so sure. The antique exemption isn't working as it should

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-35615180


Agreed. The problem people have with licensing regimes, however, isn't in their effective operation or the need to fill out some paperwork, it's that they are inevitably tedious, require regular updating and cost a bit.

While the £88 for a firearms certificate (and then renewal fees too) may not seem like much for a dedicated shooter, it's enough to deter quite ordinary collectors. If the police adjusted this, they may find antique firearms dealers more open to persuasion of the merits of tightening things up.
Original post by Grand High Witch
I am pro-full gun control as in the UK, but even if America is to retain its right to bear arms, why is this not limited to basic handguns only? Why are automatic rifles available for sale? What possible purpose could buying an automatic rifle serve?


handgun and shotguns/ hunting rifles are good
but machine fed weapons and rocket launchers should be banned
Original post by L i b
Agreed. The problem people have with licensing regimes, however, isn't in their effective operation or the need to fill out some paperwork, it's that they are inevitably tedious, require regular updating and cost a bit.

While the £88 for a firearms certificate (and then renewal fees too) may not seem like much for a dedicated shooter, it's enough to deter quite ordinary collectors. If the police adjusted this, they may find antique firearms dealers more open to persuasion of the merits of tightening things up.


A problem in the UK, due in part to gun control laws, is a lot of guns used in crimes are antique pieces. It's not unusual 70+ year old firearms used in shootings in London.

That said people who want to use old fashioned blackpowder firearms for re-enacting have to jump so many hurdles it's ridiculous!
Reply 216
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QE2
20
Original post by L i b
Presumably you'd do that before talking to them. You seem to be presenting turning a key in a cabinet (or pressing a few numbers, if you're a bit modern) as some sort of insurmountable challenge.
As long as the safe is in the bedroom, you can do it without alerting the intruder, and the fact that you have challenged an armed intruder, rather than just let them take your TV, doesn't lead to a firefight that results in the deaths of your children .

Yes, we've discussed this. Having dangerous things in your home is more dangerous than not - I don't think there's anyone out there who doesn't accept that.
So you agree that the "protection" and "safety" arguments are fallacious.


The point is that you can take reasonable and sensible precautions which make the chances of someone being accidentally shot by a gun in your home virtually nil.

People who handle guns should be familiar with how to do it safely and they should be safely stored. Many people are foolish and don't do that. Meanwhile it's not really a problem for the sensible and cautious.
So, remind me how that's working out in the US?
[video="youtube;RolEI5n4Jxs"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RolEI5n4Jxs[/video]
Original post by ivybridge
[video="youtube;RolEI5n4Jxs"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RolEI5n4Jxs[/video]


Another example of where the media and certain members of government are unable to properly figure out where the root cause of the problem is. Rather than focusing on the ideology or mental illness, the blame is being placed on an inanimate object. I grant that certain regulation is needed, but it's quite shocking that so many are placing the blame on guns and neither on the individual's motives nor his potential mental issues.
Original post by Aceadria
Another example of where the media and certain members of government are unable to properly figure out where the root cause of the problem is. Rather than focusing on the ideology or mental illness, the blame is being placed on an inanimate object. I grant that certain regulation is needed, but it's quite shocking that so many are placing the blame on guns and neither on the individual's motives nor his potential mental issues.


And yet another example of a right-wing idiot ignoring the actual words used by the reporter.

Trevor Noah clearly links all of the things together. He does not ignore radical islamic terrorism, nor does he ignore guns, or mental health. He links them all together. You are ignoring the reality that is the link between the attacks and the availability of guns in the United States of America.

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