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Should trans people be allowed to receive free reassignment surgery on the NHS? watch

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    (Original post by zippyRN)
    so what do you propose instead ? 'Conversion Therapy' and other forms of torture which are discredited and no scientific basis ?
    I don't know. The first thing would be to acknowledge the reality of this issue as being a mental health one, which would remove the stigma of bigotry associated with researching alternative treatments. One thing I do know is that just because we don't have a concrete alternative, that does not automatically mean that we should continue with the expensive, horrific campaign of bodily disfigurement we have already embarked upon.
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    (Original post by CleverLilViper)
    I can't count the number of older Trans people who have been so vocal AGAINST

    transition, and their tales are tragic. They, too, thought that all they needed to
    be cured was to transition to this "new" body, and voila, fixed! The reality was
    much different. For one, he realised that after having the full surgery, and losing
    his wife, what he actually had was a mental illness and that was what was
    needed to be treated, not the physical symptoms of the illness.
    The numbers of trans people who are vocal against transition are vanishingly small - and often the "regret" expressed is misreported or misrepresented by a number of people with a clear agenda.
    http://genderanalysis.net/2015/07/wa...r-analysis-09/ tried to track down the actual cases reported and look in depth
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    (Original post by jape)
    I don't know. The first thing would be to acknowledge the reality of this issue as being a mental health one, which would remove the stigma of bigotry associated with researching alternative treatments. One thing I do know is that just because we don't have a concrete alternative, that does not automatically mean that we should continue with the expensive, horrific campaign of bodily disfigurement we have already embarked upon.
    It is abundantly obvious that you have not read anything from WPATH or the NHS pathway .

    Medical transition including surgical procedures works , and there is evidence base and consensus of clinicians to support this.

    Many 'orthodox' medicine but alternative treatments have been suggested and tried with poor results and under assessment thry usually consist of religious undertones or a genuinely transphobic and/or homophobic establishment engaging in cis-sexist and heteronormative behaviour modification programmes.
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    (Original post by PQ)
    The numbers of trans people who are vocal against transition are vanishingly small - and often the "regret" expressed is misreported or misrepresented by a number of people with a clear agenda.
    http://genderanalysis.net/2015/07/wa...r-analysis-09/ tried to track down the actual cases reported and look in depth
    Also some of the reported 'regret' ismore aobut people not being the centre of attention any more or the euphoria wears off and they realise that society places unrealistic expectations on females ( cis or trans ) with regard to appearance and grooming -

    The question that is raised clinically in these cases is is the psychological evaluation sufficiently rigourous which tends to cause argument and false accusations of organisational transpohbia from a vocal minority of transpeople who beleive their narrative is the same for everyone.
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    (Original post by CleverLilViper)
    I'm really going to listen to a site that is clearly biased towards transition, aren't I?
    All the quotes and studies are referenced and linked to.

    Have you read the Sweden study that is reported as inferring that post-transition trans people have "higher" rates of suicide? It clearly doesn't state that.

    As for Paul McHugh - he didn't "pioneer" transition/GRS at John Hopkins - he was opposed before taking over the unit and took the post with the stated goal of shutting it down. He's also not exactly a particularly great spoke-person for the anti-trans lobby given his stance on abortion and child abuse.
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    (Original post by sleepysnooze)
    no. that's starting to take the piss, isn't it
    I identify as an attack helicopter - install me some propellers
    I identify as a millionaire and I have financial disphoria - give me a million pounds.
    I identify as an butthole - let me act like one
    etc

    be responsible for your own life - don't expect others to pick up the bill for your "uniqueness"
    :giggle:
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    (Original post by CleverLilViper)
    I'm really going to listen to a site that is clearly biased towards transition, aren't I?
    'bias'? Just because the majority of people have one perspective, doesn't mean you need to automatically be critical. There are some very valid points
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    It is appropriate, the NHS is there to save lives and the LGBT community historically has a high depression and suicide rate as a direct consequence of discrimination but also being forced to live in a way that isn't 'you'. Transitioning to what you feel is the right gender for you can save a life.

    I would assume though, there are limits on the treatment available and lines are drawn between what is necessary and what is cosmetic. That said it makes me angry that someone like Caitlyn Jenner can transition relatively easily with all the money she has, not to mention stylists and so on, and access to support which other, less high-profile people, cannot access.

    Anyway, going back to the NHS - it is not for us to make moral judgements on people who seek treatment. This is why drunks still get treated, as do cancer sufferers who are smokers, as well as addicts, or anyone who has a preventable medical need. Or, in this case, a medical need which people are still wringing their hands over. Treatment is there for those who need it, not those who we think deserve it.
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    (Original post by PQ)
    Sorry but you're falling for poor reporting of the available studies
    http://genderanalysis.net/2015/09/pa...r-analysis-10/
    Do you have any links that aren't completely biased? Thanks
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    (Original post by PQ)
    All the quotes and studies are referenced and linked to.

    Have you read the Sweden study that is reported as inferring that post-transition trans people have "higher" rates of suicide? It clearly doesn't state that.

    As for Paul McHugh - he didn't "pioneer" transition/GRS at John Hopkins - he was opposed before taking over the unit and took the post with the stated goal of shutting it down. He's also not exactly a particularly great spoke-person for the anti-trans lobby given his stance on abortion and child abuse.
    PRSOM

    the Swedish paper is often misused ( as is the paper with utterly poor and little effort expended follow-up percentages for young people with gender issues - especially as it presumes lost from their follow up = cis + het

    as for McHugh the least said about that waste of oxygen the better.
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    (Original post by YaliaV)
    Do you have any links that aren't completely biased? Thanks
    Do you? So far you've only posted unsourced "facts" based on crap media reports of interviews with anti- trans activists and mis representations of academic research.

    That site links through to both the Johns Hopkins and Swedish study. You can read for yourself what they say about findings and methodology and whether you agree or disagree with Zinnia's criticism.
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    (Original post by biglad2k16)
    I know it already exists on the Nhs but is it appropriate or is it a waste of money?
    No because ultimately it's cosmetic and there are more pressing matters to the NHS sorry
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    (Original post by abc:))
    Treatment is there for those who need it
    Nope.
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    (Original post by sadly)
    No because ultimately it's cosmetic and there are more pressing matters to the NHS sorry
    GICs and GRS represent a very good investment of a sum that is ' change down back the sofa' in relation to the NHS budget ...

    a couple of high value personal injury claims due to failed suicides would wipe out the 'savings' from not providing the service
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    (Original post by dingleberry jam)
    Nope.
    'nope ' what or are you just posting to confirm your ignorance and transphobia ?
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    (Original post by PQ)
    Do you? So far you've only posted unsourced "facts" based on crap media reports of interviews with anti- trans activists and mis representations of academic research.

    That site links through to both the Johns Hopkins and Swedish study. You can read for yourself what they say about findings and methodology and whether you agree or disagree with Zinnia's criticism.
    PRSOM

    It's also interesting that the self appointed financial, economic and clinical experts of TSR seem to be suggesting Conversion Therapy as the alternative to the current pathway.
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    (Original post by zippyRN)
    'nope ' what or are you just posting to confirm your ignorance and transphobia ?
    :rolleyes:

    Don't give me that ********, nothing to do with that, besides I seem to remember a number of your posts reveal a prejudice against drug users.

    Treatment isn't there for all those that need it, we have to choose.
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    (Original post by dingleberry jam)
    :rolleyes:

    Treatment isn't there for all those that need it, we have to choose.
    however anyone entitled to NHS treatment who requests a referral gets one , especially as the current pathway removed the local psych screening requirement - and the GICs are seeing the rule of unintended consequences because of that ...

    Similar problems have arisen in physical health becasue various Specialities have assumed that GPs / A+E / other specialities are rubbish at referring to them / they want to empire build ... but no, if you beleive the millie tants the prolonged waiting times are becasue of some cis - het old white man conspiracy
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    (Original post by zippyRN)
    if you beleive the millie tants the prolonged waiting times are becasue of some cis - het old white man conspiracy
    :rolleyes:

    No I just think there are others in greater need that are denied treatment.
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    (Original post by dingleberry jam)
    :rolleyes:

    No I just think there are others in greater need that are denied treatment.
    like Whom ?
 
 
 
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