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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    Apprentice minimum wage is £3.30. If requiring a degree doesn't make a job a graduate level job, what does? * *Posted from TSR Mobile
    Apprentice minimum wage for over 21's is £6.70. Anyone with those qualifications is going to be in that bracket. It's not a graduate level job because the type of jobs can be given to people with experience but no law degree. These people tend to be older because now you can't start out with no degree. There's plenty of people with a law degree applying for those paralegal positions so someone without experience or a degree will generally be overlooked in favour of the graduates or more experienced candidates. The oversupply of law graduates facilitates this. A graduate job is in the legal context, a training contract. This is the way that university frames the legal sector and is the aspiration for the vast majority when starting out.
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    whats an IMO?
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    (Original post by PHD2027)
    whats an IMO?
    in your 'in my opinion' boyo
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    any language degree, or Eng lit ,all arts except philosophy.
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    (Original post by AlexH123)
    Lmao me too, what uni?
    Warwick.
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    (Original post by Princepieman)
    not trolling, the degree doesn't do anything for you, you do.

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    you've got it spot on!
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    Media studies
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    (Original post by whydoidothis?)
    Warwick.
    You'll be fine, the politics/economics aspects and more importantly having Warwick on your cv will leave you in a good position.

    Yeh the degree is crazily overrated but doesn't mean its bad.

    if you were doing Classics or something i'd be worried.
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    (Original post by GradeA*UnderA)
    Even though I aspire to do it, it's medicine for me. It seems as if everyone that takes it is touted as a genius and that you're an automatic success in life. I'm intrigued as to why physics/chemistry don't get the same level as respect, because they seem to be much harder. I mean, from some of my taster days, medicine seems like A Level Biology on steroids; there's excessive memorisation in every topic!
    This. As a chemistry undergraduate myself I can confirm chemistry is very tough in terms of both concept and application
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    I never read 11 page threads lol. Some great conversations/arguments in here.

    PPE does spring to mind though as an overated course but I can see the appeal. Had my heart set on it when I was applying to university.

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    (Original post by SunnysideSea)
    Degrees are what you make of them. Classics can be the hardest, most fulfilling degree of them all, it has the scope to be. If you take it seriously. Perhaps it's true that students these days elect for easier modules. If so, I'm sorry that you're letting the side down. I never did it - but my dad, my aunt and my grandmother all did it, two of whom at Oxford, and they're some of the cleverest, most accomplished people I know. Maybe it has lost its edge after all - perhaps we should all do soulless courses like Law now. But I'm holding people like you accountable.

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    Why does this not surprise me at all. Explains a lot about you and how you behave in the God thread regurgitating your cosmological argument.
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    (Original post by SunnysideSea)
    Sorry, you DIDN'T do Classics at Oxford?!?!

    Why the HELL did you imply that you did? Frankly, my experience is probably greater than yours! As it turns out, I'm the authority on this issue. I know three classicists very personally, you appear to know none, and I have a brother at Oxford right this very moment who would agree with me entirely on the strength of a Classics degree (thus nulling any of your anecdotal evidence from your time there).

    Talk about arrogance! Who do you think you are? Oh you did latin and ancient greek A level? Well done you. I did Latin for A Level and Greek for AS Level. Make me special? Nope. Didn't think so. Thanks for pissing me right off.

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    Let me guess, he is just as much a religious nutjob like you?
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    (Original post by Princepieman)
    not trolling, the degree doesn't do anything for you, you do.

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    lulz

    talking nonsense as usual.

    Well let's be fair, that statement is actually so vague and generic, it could be said about any degree. But that kind of underhanded argumentation is exactly your style.

    Anyway, let's take a huge one, I suppose you have never heard of the GES then?
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    (Original post by Hydromancer)
    Rote memorisation...? I think you you are going off first two years here. Medical school tests far greater attributes than that. It tests resilience, it instils the virtues of working hard and organisation and the ability to cope with stress. It tests your ability to prioritise, to delegate, to know your own limits, to explain difficult concepts to patients, to communicate bad news, to rationalise and to justify and to constantly reflect. These things cannot be measured but it would be disingenous to think that they aren't tested. And that's nothing to compare to clinical examination and diagnostic and management skills


    I graduated from a decent medical school. Our intercalators join the third year of vitually any bioscience or biochem bachelors and Masters courses, some even do physics/engineering related...and guess what? Almost without exception they end up with firsts or distinctions. Course directors for these courses hold medical students in high esteem because of a reason.

    You might think that being a healthcare assistant has given you some idea of how tough things are in healthcare but really you have little personal responsiblity for the patient compared to a doctor. From the moment you graduate as a doctor, you are personally responsible for making critical healthcare decision, you ask yourself what if I had done something different, patients may die because of the consequences of your actions and your decisions. When **** hits the fan, guess who deals with it. And then there's the workload...I value what healthcare assistants do but really looking after a bay of 6 patients is very different to being on ward cover during the weekend for 800 odd medical patients which an F1 doctor will probably be from the moment they graduate...and then making decisions about healthcare. You may think you are under stress but try answering 20 bleeps in 30 minutes then prioritising them, then seeing these patients and making decisions.

    So perhaps you have seen from afar the consequences of healthcare and may have lots of life experience, unfortunately this is unlikely to make you a good doctor unless you have the required attributes.

    The question related to over-rated degree...not the most conceptually difficult, which is the trap that a lot of STEM people fall into. Unfortunately, I do think that medicine is over-rated. No one wants to go through over a decade of gruelling postgrad training, getting papers and PhDs and Masters and other memberships and working on quality improvement projects while working 12 hour plus shifts in horrendous understaffed conditions, with little supervision and arbitrary management-led targets often unable to even go to the toilet. If anyone thinks this is some easy way to money, then I think if one directed a similar effort elsewhere perhaps the results could be even better or achieved with less stress.
    Don't take this the wrong way but bioscience degrees are not the most academically demanding either with a fair bit of overlap with medicine so it is no wonder intercalaters can get decent results.

    The funny thing is you can get into medical school without demonstrating any of the qualities you mention, yet doctors and medical students are supposed to be a cut above on those qualities? Doesn't really follow to me.

    Especially after seeing some of the mistakes doctors have made first hand it becomes quite clear in fact that the medical profession is nothing special. And as for the personal responsibility part, the GMC bends over backwards not to find doctors unfit to practice through incompetence, mental health and addiction issues to a level that beggars belief in certain cases.

    In certain regions (generally with a low cost of living) there are no jobs that pay better than being a consultant so enlighten me as to how, in quite a few circumstances, similar or greater financial reward could be obtained with less effort? The only way you could exceed these earnings would be starting your own business, which of course anyone is welcome to try.
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    (Original post by Zahid~)
    You have very little understanding of the degree if you think its main skill is memorization,and a minority of doctors have patient skills? Do you even know what OSCE's are, or did you just forget in your ignorance? You havent even seen the true reality of being a doctor as a healthcare assistant, so please dont pretend you know all there is to know simply by walking around in wards all day. And erm... most medical students are undergraduates, straight from college, is it any actual surprise that you've seen more bad things than 18 year olds, considering youre a person in their mid 20s with a degree and worked as a healthcare assistant, Congrats for stating the obvious.


    So you just stated that you have an advantage over most people taking the examinations (by having photographic memory) and then act as if it is some sort of achievement in doing well? Then you go on to say you did really well in an examination thats mostly taken by 17 year olds (UKCAT) which requires absolutely no academic knowledge (other than gcse maths, and you have a degree in maths so i doubt thats an issue). You really just sound like a little snob that takes pride in being better than younger people without realizing it. maybe if you weren't so narrow minded you wouldve known by now.
    Oh and i really doubt any doctor loses a minute of sleep over you having a score in a test that requires no academic knowledge in an exam that is taken by 17 year olds. Especially considering , unlike you, they've gone through and successfully completed the degree and the post-graduate courses that are a further 5-11 years.
    I find it pretty funny when kids like you say/imply that medicine is underrated. Did you all forget that everyone doing an undergrad med degree did do very well in their a levels and at the same time did take on a lot of extra curricular work experience and volunteering roles. And alot of people (around 10%) of them fail first year and end up resitting or dropping out of medical school, while on the other hand the first year of nearly every other degree means absolutely nothing as it doesnt even count towards the final grade.

    I'm not surprised you got rejected after your interviews, especially after comments like these. Quite frankly, i'm taking comfort in the fact that the interviewers have managed to weed out arrogant little snobs who think theyre better than everyone else and have an unrealistic view of the reality that medicine is.
    I know enough to judge.

    Hilarious comments. The fact remains I took the UKCAT at the age of 33 and would have no doubt got an even higher score at 17, since if you look at the stats, performance drops off sharply with age, reaching a peak in the early twenties.

    I also got a great score in the GAMSAT, both while working more than full time and volunteering. I think if I had been the typical grad med early twenties from a wealthy family on a gap yah I would have done even better.

    I also have better A-levels than 99% of doctors as well just in case you wondered.

    I'm not a snob far from it, but when those that work as healthcare assistants consistently score better than your doctors in aptitude tests, there is something a bit amiss in your society. I'm sure the interviewers disliked me but more for the reason that I look like I belong in prison more than anywhere else. I suspect class bias more than anything else.
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    (Original post by inhuman)
    lulz

    talking nonsense as usual.

    Well let's be fair, that statement is actually so vague and generic, it could be said about any degree. But that kind of underhanded argumentation is exactly your style.

    Anyway, let's take a huge one, I suppose you have never heard of the GES then?
    No crap sherlock.

    Lolz, your counter point is one governmental body that doesn't even hire that many econ grads in aggregate? Ok.

    And let's just take a look shall we:
    "a postgraduate diploma in economics or a taught masters including macro and microeconomics, and a first degree in another subject"

    Sounds exactly like what the GDL does for law.

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    (Original post by Zahid~)
    You have very little understanding of the degree if you think its main skill is memorization,and a minority of doctors have patient skills? Do you even know what OSCE's are, or did you just forget in your ignorance? You havent even seen the true reality of being a doctor as a healthcare assistant, so please dont pretend you know all there is to know simply by walking around in wards all day. And erm... most medical students are undergraduates, straight from college, is it any actual surprise that you've seen more bad things than 18 year olds, considering youre a person in their mid 20s with a degree and worked as a healthcare assistant, Congrats for stating the obvious.
    1. Main skill is memorization, for the degree. Same way biology in school was just just memorizing whereas chem and phys required understanding.

    2. Many doctors do have poor patient skills.


    So you just stated that you have an advantage over most people taking the examinations (by having photographic memory) and then act as if it is some sort of achievement in doing well? Then you go on to say you did really well in an examination thats mostly taken by 17 year olds (UKCAT) which requires absolutely no academic knowledge (other than gcse maths, and you have a degree in maths so i doubt thats an issue). You really just sound like a little snob that takes pride in being better than younger people without realizing it. maybe if you weren't so narrow minded you wouldve known by now.
    I think you just proved his point. If you don't need academic knowledge it means it is a pure aptitude based test. And that means you can relatively easily be prepared for it. Much like some people can improve their IQ score easily by 5-10 points (which is quite a lot actually) just by practicing and preparing.

    And he should take pride being better than younger people. Academic performance is demonstrably peaking around 20.

    Oh and i really doubt any doctor loses a minute of sleep over you having a score in a test that requires no academic knowledge in an exam that is taken by 17 year olds. Especially considering , unlike you, they've gone through and successfully completed the degree and the post-graduate courses that are a further 5-11 years.
    I am sure they don't lose any sleep. How is that relevant though?

    I find it pretty funny when kids like you say/imply that medicine is underrated. Did you all forget that everyone doing an undergrad med degree did do very well in their a levels and at the same time did take on a lot of extra curricular work experience and volunteering roles. And alot of people (around 10%) of them fail first year and end up resitting or dropping out of medical school, while on the other hand the first year of nearly every other degree means absolutely nothing as it doesnt even count towards the final grade.
    No one is denying that it takes a lot of work to get through med school.

    I'm not surprised you got rejected after your interviews, especially after comments like these. Quite frankly, i'm taking comfort in the fact that the interviewers have managed to weed out arrogant little snobs who think theyre better than everyone else and have an unrealistic view of the reality that medicine is.
    Isn't that ironic.
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    I think its maths at Cambridge
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    (Original post by Princepieman)
    No crap sherlock.

    Lolz, your counter point is one governmental body that doesn't even hire that many econ grads in aggregate? Ok.

    And let's just take a look shall we:
    "a postgraduate diploma in economics or a taught masters including macro and microeconomics, and a first degree in another subject"

    Sounds exactly like what the GDL does for law.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Can you or can you not easily get a graduate job with an economics degree? I might be wrong but from my experience, you should not have a problem. Wholly irrelevant that you can do the same jobs by taking a masters. Because let me ask you this, can you or can you not easily get a graduate job as a law degree student? And are many of that in your actual field?
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    Probably Medicine. :giggle:
 
 
 
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